set of camera for panopictures  

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giuseppe-360
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set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:23 pm

Hi all,
I am interested in taking pano pictures for VT for educational purposes and I am a beginner.
I would take pictures with (also) moving subjects.
I would use a set of action cams (like gopro) because they are light and with wide angle lenses.
I am trying APP 4.0
1) the cameras would have a fixed relative configuration (let's say, 5 along the sides of a pentagon and one for the zenith): Is there any methods to pass parameters of the configuration, for instance yaw and relative position, before APP does autodetection?
2) The camera would have a parallax error but the distance of the nodal points of the cameras is known. Would it be useful to pass this data to APP before autodetection? If yes, how?
3) I am trying with a cheap cam (Xiaomi yi). I took 5 pictures, 0 degrees pitch, one per 72 degrees around the nodal point. The automatic stitching results are strange: I may suppose the main reason is that APP does not know the data of the lenses of the camera.
According to cam specs: focal length is 2,73 mm, D(iagonal ?)FOV is 155 degrees, sensor size (Sony Exmor R bi) is 1/2.3 inch. Would it be possible from these data to obtain the focal length (35 mm equivalent) to force APP to consider? Would it be considered a fisheye lens?

Sorry for so many questions.
Thank you in advance.
Giuseppe

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:23 pm

giuseppe-360 wrote:Hi all,
I am interested in taking pano pictures for VT for educational purposes and I am a beginner.
I would take pictures with (also) moving subjects.
I would use a set of action cams (like gopro) because they are light and with wide angle lenses.
I am trying APP 4.0

Welcome to the forum...

1) the cameras would have a fixed relative configuration (let's say, 5 along the sides of a pentagon and one for the zenith): Is there any methods to pass parameters of the configuration, for instance yaw and relative position, before APP does autodetection?

Yes.

2) The camera would have a parallax error but the distance of the nodal points of the cameras is known. Would it be useful to pass this data to APP before autodetection? If yes, how?

I don't think there are any mechanisms to do that.

AFAIK APP/APG has no means of correcting parallax.

3) I am trying with a cheap cam (Xiaomi yi). I took 5 pictures, 0 degrees pitch, one per 72 degrees around the nodal point. The automatic stitching results are strange: I may suppose the main reason is that APP does not know the data of the lenses of the camera.
According to cam specs: focal length is 2,73 mm, D(iagonal ?)FOV is 155 degrees, sensor size (Sony Exmor R bi) is 1/2.3 inch. Would it be possible from these data to obtain the focal length (35 mm equivalent) to force APP to consider? Would it be considered a fisheye lens?

I don't know the answer...I found a suggestion on the web that 35mm equiv. FOV is 24mm for stills and 28mm for video.

I would imagine the lens would be considered a fisheye if it has a FOV of 155 degrees.

Do you want to share your sample image set for we could try stitching the images?

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:59 pm

Thank you very much.

Do you want to share your sample image set for we could try stitching the images?


I found that the Sony sensor diagonal is 7,7 mm, the focal length as per cam specs is 2,73 mm. I put a 35 mm equivalent focal length of 15,15 mm in the lens parameters (fisheye) to force APP to consider. The outcome is fine, at least according to my competence, at least as regards geometry.
I am sending the 5 pictures for your stitching and advice: it will be most useful.

Image



1) the cameras would have a fixed relative configuration (let's say, 5 along the sides of a pentagon and one
for the zenith): Is there any methods to pass parameters of the configuration, for instance yaw and relative position, before APP does autodetection?

Yes.


Sorry, but I can't find where to input yaw, pitch, roll and positions in images before detection.

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:10 pm

giuseppe-360 wrote:
I found that the Sony sensor diagonal is 7,7 mm, the focal length as per cam specs is 2,73 mm. I put a 35 mm equivalent focal length of 15,15 mm in the lens parameters (fisheye) to force APP to consider. The outcome is fine, at least according to my competence, at least as regards geometry.

I guess that would work as I believe APP/APG calculates/estimates the focal length for images shot for itself with a lens designated as a fisheye.

I am sending the 5 pictures for your stitching and advice: it will be most useful.

Use one of the file sharing services - for example Dropbox.


1) the cameras would have a fixed relative configuration (let's say, 5 along the sides of a pentagon and one
for the zenith): Is there any methods to pass parameters of the configuration, for instance yaw and relative position, before APP does autodetection?.......

Sorry, but I can't find where to input yaw, pitch, roll and positions in images before detection.


Shoot a pano that offers a lot of detail for automatic control point detection, then when you have achieved a good stitch use the File/Export to Papywizard feature to create a Papywizard-compatible XML file that records the shooting co-ordinates, then use this with the Papywizard Import Wizard with other image sets shot in the same sequence.
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1-apg4x-export-pw.jpg

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:22 pm

Sorry, I did not attach the images, hope now you can see....
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img3.jpg
img2.jpg
img1.jpg
img0.jpg
img4.jpg

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:58 pm

APG 4.x displayed a focal length of 24mm by default, so I used that, but I changed lens type from standard to fisheye.
Your images stitched easily, I just used the Vertical lines tool in the Panorama Editor to straighten it up a bit.

Of course this is with one camera so you can position it at the NPP to avoid parallax.

With an array of camera it wouldn't be possible to locate them at the NPP and this will cause some parallax problems when shooting scenes (such as interiors) with parts of the scenes close to the camera.

Andrew
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2-apg4x-xiaomi.jpg

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:50 am

I did the stitching as you did and it worked fine: I have only to change the default objective from standard to fisheye.

Thank you very much for your assistance.

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:00 am

giuseppe-360 wrote:I did the stitching as you did and it worked fine: I have only to change the default objective from standard to fisheye.

Thank you very much for your assistance.

You can force the lens type and focal length in global settings so if you are using the same setup all the time you wouldn't have to manually edit the lens type:
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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:23 pm

mediavets wrote:With an array of camera it wouldn't be possible to locate them at the NPP and this will cause some parallax problems when shooting scenes (such as interiors) with parts of the scenes close to the camera.



Right - that´s the main issue with all rigs i tested so far. The only way to compensate thia issue: a rig with more cameras.

Regarding this just counts for shooting on close distances i guess it´s much more clever for indoor shooting to use an average
camera with a fishey and a small NPP-head and shoot the "conventional" way of 6 or 7 + 1 or two images. Here you can avoid parallax-issues caused by narrow distances by choosing an NPP setting for 1 or 2 meters instead of the usual
adjustment @ infinity.

In terms of shooting 360 video it´s obvious you need a rig of more than just 6 cameras when you have objects on close distances.

Klaus

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:47 pm

Regarding a rig of cameras and parallax issue.
Right - that´s the main issue with all rigs i tested so far. The only way to compensate this issue: a rig with more cameras.


Reducing distance of the cameras NPP, let's say 50 mm or so, do you think would it be acceptable when you have no objects closer than about 2 meters but with some moving?
Something like one camera hacked with 5 halves of a Ricoh theta, or similar.

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:07 pm

For parallax not to be an issue subjects have to be much further away than 2 meters.

The Ricoh Theta is probably the least expensive one-shot option, and no problem with parallax, but it offers limited resolution.

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:56 pm


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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:02 pm



Interesting - sadly no details available and the URL to what might think was his web site takes me to an unfinished golf course site.

Andrew

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by klausesser » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:28 pm

mediavets wrote:


Interesting - sadly no details available and the URL to what might think was his web site takes me to an unfinished golf course site.

Andrew



Yep - strange. No success finding more infos anywhere . .
Need to talk to jschrader.

Klaus

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by Sam Rohn » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:43 am

we will soon be adding ivan's Prague 2015 presentation to the IVRPA conference video archive

http://ivrpa.org/ivrpa-conference-video-archive/

meanwhile, ivan is on facebook etc -

https://www.facebook.com/ivancastroguatemala

maybe some info about his rig here -

http://issuu.com/ivancastro/docs

sam
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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:25 pm

Hi,
I have a question about the number of pictures for a pano which affects the choice of number of cams in a rig.
I know that if I have a small Fov I would need more pictures than having a wider Fov.
Is there any differences in quality or appearance of the resulting pano if I use many pictures with a smaller Fov or less pictures with a wider Fov.
And what would be the best, if any, compromise regardless parallax problems?

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:15 pm

giuseppe-360 wrote:Hi,
I have a question about the number of pictures for a pano which affects the choice of number of cams in a rig.
I know that if I have a small FOV I would need more pictures than having a wider FOV.
Is there any differences in quality or appearance of the resulting pano if I use many pictures with a smaller FOV or less pictures with a wider FOV.
And what would be the best, if any, compromise regardless parallax problems?

If the cameras have the same resolution sensor then the longer the focal length the higher the resolution of the stitched panoramas.

OTOH the number of cameras required in a multi-cam one shot rig will be greater with a longer focal length lens, and it will be more difficult to mount the cameras anywhere close to the NPP, and there will be more seams and hence more obvious parallax related stitching errors.

'Image quality and appearance' is not directly related to image resolution of course.

If the budget permits you might consider the new NCtech iris360 multi-sensor multi-lens one-shot pano camera with built in HDR and sticthing and claims to have parallax correction:

http://www.nctechimaging.com/iris360/

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by giuseppe-360 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Thank you for clarifying my doubts.
If the budget permits you might consider the new NCtech iris360 multi-sensor multi-lens one-shot pano camera with built in HDR and stitching and claims to have parallax correction:


I saw the iris360; interesting though it seems to have a wide nadir spot, almost 90°.
Built in HDR: I have a question about HDR which applies also to other cameras.
Does it means each objective takes three, or more, different pictures with three, or more, different exposures and then the software "blend "them into one?
In this case what about moving subjects in the different pictures?

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Re: set of camera for panopictures

by mediavets » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:28 pm

giuseppe-360 wrote:Thank you for clarifying my doubts.
If the budget permits you might consider the new NCtech iris360 multi-sensor multi-lens one-shot pano camera with built in HDR and stitching and claims to have parallax correction:


I saw the iris360; interesting though it seems to have a wide nadir spot, almost 90°.

Yes, nadir 'hole' is prertty big.

Built in HDR: I have a question about HDR which applies also to other cameras.
Does it means each objective takes three, or more, different pictures with three, or more, different exposures and then the software "blend "them into one?

Yes - unless it is creating' different exposures from a single RAW image.

In this case what about moving subjects in the different pictures?

You will get ghosting I imagine.


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