AutoPano Giga Control Points  

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mcivorvr
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AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mcivorvr » Tue May 12, 2015 3:03 pm

Hey guys,

I am trying to add my own control points in the pano using manual control point tool, but everytime I do this and save them, the software ignores them and remains the same as it was before. Just wandering if there is something I am missing?

Thanks

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mediavets » Tue May 12, 2015 4:49 pm

mcivorvr wrote:Hey guys,

I am trying to add my own control points in the pano using manual control point tool, but everytime I do this and save them, the software ignores them and remains the same as it was before. Just wandering if there is something I am missing?

Thanks


Welcome to the forum..

It is rare to require manual control points.

Can you show us some screenshots so we can see why they might be necessary?

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by snafubar » Fri May 15, 2015 7:30 pm

I'm having the same problem, usually with the nadir shot not aligning properly. Both in very tight spaces like vehicles, and with seemingly "easier" panos taken outside, even on tiled ground materials that should be easy to automatically detect accurate control points...

But I am also new to APG, and there are a lot of settings. I am used to PTGUI, where manual control points are usually treated as high-quality (or "Green" in APG). But in APG, every time I add manual control points that I know to be accurate, it worsens the overall RMS and makes for a more complicated stitch. I feel like I'm missing something.

Any help would be appreciated, either with additional automatic features to try first, or with manual control point techniques that APG will "like" more.

Thanks in advance.

KV

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mediavets » Fri May 15, 2015 8:03 pm

snafubar wrote:I'm having the same problem, usually with the nadir shot not aligning properly. Both in very tight spaces like vehicles, and with seemingly "easier" panos taken outside, even on tiled ground materials that should be easy to automatically detect accurate control points...

This may or may not help:
http://www.kolor.com/wiki-en/action/vie ... _the_nadir

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by snafubar » Fri May 15, 2015 8:12 pm

Thanks mediavets, but I have read and followed the directions in that tutorial and am still getting stitching errors involving the nadir. I am continuing to experiment with manual control points, but it seems like whenever I try them it makes the situation worse as opposed to better...

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mediavets » Fri May 15, 2015 8:29 pm

snafubar wrote:Thanks mediavets, but I have read and followed the directions in that tutorial and am still getting stitching errors involving the nadir. I am continuing to experiment with manual control points, but it seems like whenever I try them it makes the situation worse as opposed to better...

What camera, lens and pano head are you using?

What technique do you use to shoot the nadir image(s)?

Do you want to make one of your 'difficult' sets of images available for download, it make offer a clue as to why you are having persistent problems.

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by snafubar » Fri May 15, 2015 10:48 pm

My setup is a Nikon D610 with Nodal Ninja 4 , rotator and ez leveler, and very small tripod when used in tight spaces. I shoot 8 images around, then 1 up and 1 down.

For the nadir image I move the tripod out of the way, swing the boom arm of the NN4 out, and approximate the position of the camera. For tight spaces, I approximate the position and secure the tripod head using any means necessary.

This brings me to a "difficult" setup, which is inside a small airplane. I'm going to be shooting more scenarios like this soon, so I really want to get the post-production figured out. It exemplifies the challenges of stitching the nadir, and I've yet to be successful in achieving what I consider to be an acceptable stitch with this batch of photos. I'll PM you a dropbox link to the images. I'm definitely open to any suggestions.

Thank you again!

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by klausesser » Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm

snafubar wrote: I'm definitely open to any suggestions.



Really? Ok - let´s see:

set your camera to -12° when you shoot the horizontal row. This ensures to achieve a rather small Nadir-hole.
Then shoot you Zenith @+90°.

This should take about 6 or 7 shots.

Stitch and render it with full "spherical" projection.

This way you get a missing Nadir shot, of course.

Make the rendered equirectangular image to 6 cubefaces. Edit the "down" face by closing the Nadir hole using Photoshop.

Then make the 6 cubefaces to an equirectangular again and you can put it into PTP.

Let me assure you that in 80% of all cases THIS way is preferable over shooting an stitching an extra-Nadir.

IF you NEED shooting a Nadir: use the NN add-on whichallows to turn the vertical arm around @180° for shooting
-90° alongside your tripod:

http://www.nodalninja.com/qr/accessorie ... nd-nn5/19/

Klaus

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by snafubar » Tue May 19, 2015 4:15 am

Hey klausesser! Thanks for the suggestions.

I totally agree about shooting a decline on the horizontal row. In fact I've been shooting at -15º to date with fairly consistent results. Though I've been shooting 8-around, 1-up amd 1-down. Mediavets also suggested that maybe I try 6 or 7 around, and an incline series instead of single zenith shot for challanging or tight interiors.

With the example you gave of converting to cube faces and back to equirectangular, editing in PS... Does this method yeild a pano without nadir material? Or are you somehow editing in the nadir matierial from your photos manually in PS? I would always like to achieve a complete 360 if possible.

Indeed, and I am currently using that NN arm reverser for typical nadir shots. Lately, my particularly challanging shoots have been inside small aircraft, which do not allow me to use my usual technique of simply moving the tripod out of the way and swinging the arm. Instead I'm forced to approximate the position on the camera to my best ability, and stabilize the rig against the top of one of the seats.

My problem has been simply forcing the software (APG and PTGUI) to bend the images so as to complete the nadir stitch in an acceptable fashion. All the material is there to make a complete image, but the software is really struggling with the final 5% of stitching errors.

Thanks again.

KV

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by klausesser » Tue May 19, 2015 12:43 pm

snafubar wrote:Hey klausesser! Thanks for the suggestions.

I totally agree about shooting a decline on the horizontal row. In fact I've been shooting at -15º to date with fairly consistent results. Though I've been shooting 8-around, 1-up amd 1-down. Mediavets also suggested that maybe I try 6 or 7 around, and an incline series instead of single zenith shot for challanging or tight interiors.

With the example you gave of converting to cube faces and back to equirectangular, editing in PS... Does this method yeild a pano without nadir material? Or are you somehow editing in the nadir matierial from your photos manually in PS? I would always like to achieve a complete 360 if possible.

Indeed, and I am currently using that NN arm reverser for typical nadir shots. Lately, my particularly challanging shoots have been inside small aircraft, which do not allow me to use my usual technique of simply moving the tripod out of the way and swinging the arm. Instead I'm forced to approximate the position on the camera to my best ability, and stabilize the rig against the top of one of the seats.

My problem has been simply forcing the software (APG and PTGUI) to bend the images so as to complete the nadir stitch in an acceptable fashion. All the material is there to make a complete image, but the software is really struggling with the final 5% of stitching errors.

Thanks again.

KV


Hi!

I almost never shoot Nadirs. That´s because i usully shoot hires with 35mm and more - here you can´t shoot a Nadir.
I stitch with the setting to "full sphere". The rendering lacks the Nadir - the Nadir-area is black.
Editing the "down" face i can "close" the Nadir-hole.

Depending on the scene i do an extra shot freehand beneath the tripod - because my Nadir-holes are very small and easy to fill with an image manually.

Especially in very narrow spaces it´s hard to shoot and match a good Nadir. So leave the nadir away. Importand is to place the tripod in a way the Nadir-hole only shows the floor - the smaller the Nadir-hole is the easier it can be "closed" in Photoshop.

But of course there are situations when it´s better to shoot a Nadir and place it carefully. I do that sometimes of course when i´m facing a complicated floor-structure. But i do it fully manual then in Photoshop - after the stitch. I don´t like to integrate the Nadir in APG - too much try-and-error. And - as said - anyway impossible to do whe you shoot hires using 50 or 85mm and up.

Even using 35mm (providing 1,4GPx) integrating a Nadir-shot is rather cumbersome and time consuming. Try it and
you´ll see.

I did - and i saw . . ;) :cool:

Klaus

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mediavets » Tue May 19, 2015 1:31 pm

Klaus

snafubar is shooting with a Nikon 10.5mm fisheye and Nikon D610 with an NN4 pano head on a small tripod standing on/between the two front seats of a small light aircraft.

The rig tends to get moved slightly moving between shooting positions and shooting a nadir shot is even more tricky even with the NN4 nadir adapter.

He is planning to shoot many more panos inside the cabins of small light aircraft.

Your recommendations?

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by snafubar » Tue May 19, 2015 7:14 pm

mediavets wrote:Klaus

snafubar is shooting with a Nikon 10.5mm fisheye and Nikon D610 with an NN4 pano head on a small tripod standing on/between the two front seats of a small light aircraft.

The rig tends to get moved slightly moving between shooting positions and shooting a nadir shot is even more tricky even with the NN4 nadir adapter.

He is planning to shoot many more panos inside the cabins of small light aircraft.

Your recommendations?


Thank you mediavets! :) Sorry I haven't provided all the details in this thread...

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by klausesser » Tue May 19, 2015 7:36 pm

snafubar wrote:
mediavets wrote:Klaus

snafubar is shooting with a Nikon 10.5mm fisheye and Nikon D610 with an NN4 pano head on a small tripod standing on/between the two front seats of a small light aircraft.

The rig tends to get moved slightly moving between shooting positions and shooting a nadir shot is even more tricky even with the NN4 nadir adapter.

He is planning to shoot many more panos inside the cabins of small light aircraft.

Your recommendations?


Thank you mediavets! :) Sorry I haven't provided all the details in this thread...


I guessed already you´re using a fisheye. There´s no difference in terms of shooting-strategy when you use a fullframe-fisheye 16mm on a D800 or a fullframe-fisheye 10,5mm on a crop-camera.
So i keep my advise to leaving away an extra Nadir-shot if you can achieve a small Nadir-hole.

Turning the vertical arm to 180° means you need to drag the tripod aside for about 20 cm.

In very narrow places that might not always work well enough!

Here´s an example i shot inside a pipe-organ being assembled: http://klausesser.de/Orgel/
Use the combobox to go to 7 and 8.

There room was so extremely narrow i had to place the tripod on the free space you see in the Nadir - around 60x40cm wide - start the head via radio from the outside for not being in the picture.
Definitely impossible shooting a Nadir-image here.

Klaus

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Re: AutoPano Giga Control Points

by mcivorvr » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:13 pm

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the late response, I had accidentally rotated one of my images. Stupid me.. :/


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