Which 85mm is best for Spheres??  

In the panorama field, hardware is also part of the success. You can discuss here about it: camera, computer, pano head, anything
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Destiny
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:03 am

I made a bit of a boob last night...

My 50mm captures 104 images, but my 35mm captures 48 images.. I did a silly thing.. I put the 35mm on but left the 50mm setting on my VR Drive so my 35mm had a focal of 55mm therefore producing the same number of images...
I was getting tied.. I will now run the 35mm test again.. With fewer images they might load in APG.. Strange that the sitting was really nice with a RMA of 2.02.. Oh well..

At least this proves that they output way different numbers of images.. I am guessing that a 24mm would half that again.. The Nikon 24mm f2.8 D looks like a great option and affordable.

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:19 pm

If I use the JPG captured by my camera to create a pano to same time, the final pano stitching is not good.. I do not get to see the camera data either such as the EVs.. Also, when I add the fused images into APG, I only see very dark thumb images. However, if I use the RAW and export as TIFs, the quality of stitching is heaps better, in fact just about perfect with a RMS of 2.27. The thumb images are as they should look.. If I use the Roundshot plugin the RMS goes up to 2.66.. Using XML, I get some strange happenings.. Nothing that cannot be fixed..

Question.. Would the NPP be the same or different for all the Nikon 35mm lenses. There are a few available.. The data I used was from the Nikkor AF 35mm f2.0D at http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database, but I have the 1:2D and there is also a 1.4 and 1.8..

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:26 pm

The strange happenings I am referring to when using the Roundshot Plugin, is this.. This should not be happening.. If I move my mouse over the spots, you can see the bottom of the Esky, this image should not even been here, the Esky is over to the left.. Why should this happen.. I might try APG 3.7..

Destiny..
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strange.jpg

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Using 3.7 I do not get that Esky image where it shouldn't be but for sure if I use the Roundshot plugin, I get a really ugly Nadir footprint.. Which suggest my NPP is not correct. Which brings me back to the question.. do all 35mm lens have the entrance pupil..?

Destiny...
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:09 pm

Destiny wrote:The data I used was from the Nikkor AF 35mm f2.0D at http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database, but I have the 1:2D and there is also a 1.4 and 1.8..

Destiny...

Your lens is the Nikon 35mm AF f/2D.

See the photo here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/35af.htm

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:12 pm

Destiny wrote:The strange happenings I am referring to when using the Roundshot Plugin, is this.. This should not be happening.. If I move my mouse over the spots, you can see the bottom of the Esky, this image should not even been here, the Esky is over to the left.. Why should this happen.. I might try APG 3.7..

Destiny..

The shots appear to be in the correct sequence according to the numbers. Did you check the source/input images for any anomalies?

The nadir image at -90 is worthless isn't it?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Destiny wrote:Using 3.7 I do not get that Esky image where it shouldn't be but for sure if I use the Roundshot plugin, I get a really ugly Nadir footprint.. Which suggest my NPP is not correct.

I can't see why you should reach that conclusion.

Any way it's easy enough to check/set an NPP.
Which brings me back to the question.. do all 35mm lens have the entrance pupil..?

Destiny...

You cannot assume so.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:16 pm

Using 3.7, stitching with no XML is better. The Nadir footprint is better too and the rest of the pano is perfect.. Using V4 or V3.7 the RAMs are not as good when I use the XML. Thats really strange.. I need to make sure my NPP is correct. I get no moment between image so I would suggest it is fine as it is.. The RMS without XML suggest its Excellent.. So what gives with the Nadir Footprint.. Perhaps this is expected with the normal lens...

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:18 pm

Arrr.. I see.. That case my NPP should be perfect.. Thank you for that info...

Destiny..

mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:The data I used was from the Nikkor AF 35mm f2.0D at http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database, but I have the 1:2D and there is also a 1.4 and 1.8..

Destiny...

Your lens is the Nikon 35mm AF f/2D.

See the photo here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/35af.htm

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:20 pm

No.. You are right.. Actually, perhaps I might do away wight the last Nadir image and see what that does..

Destiny..

mediavets wrote:
Destiny wrote:Using 3.7 I do not get that Esky image where it shouldn't be but for sure if I use the Roundshot plugin, I get a really ugly Nadir footprint.. Which suggest my NPP is not correct.

I can't see why you should reach that conclusion.

Any way it's easy enough to check/set an NPP.
Which brings me back to the question.. do all 35mm lens have the entrance pupil..?

Destiny...

You cannot assume so.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:53 pm

Hey Andrew.. Good call.. I removed the last Nadir image and now the Nadir Footprint is heaps better.. I edited my XML removing that last images and although the RMS still went up a bit, its still says Excellent. So no point in using XML with the 35mm... Now I can say with certainly that my NPP is perfect.. 47 images.. With a better Mac it might be doable...

Well that was some good experimenting.. This was the object of spending my Term brake fixing up and resolving issues.. and leaning new stuff.. =D Thank you for all that import Andrew..

I am still going to look at buying a 28mm so I can create sharper panos than a Fisheye can achieve but with a realistic number of images. Wish I knew someone with one to test out... By all accounts is a very sharp lens and should capture less images than a 35mm..

I will also remove the last image from the 50mm setup.. ;) This pano is it.. the final results of all my testing using my 35mm.. Perfect.. :)

Destiny..
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:48 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
That´s what i stated - several times:
50mm = 74 shots
35mm = 45 shots.

Klaus


I am just interested to compare the shooting patterns computed by Panoneed and VRDrive2 for same lens/body setups.


ok - here are two screenshot and the xml data from a pano-shoot with 50mm.

1)
Bildschirmfoto 2015-04-12 um 18.40.03.png


2)
Bildschirmfoto 2015-04-12 um 18.40.46.png


3)
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<papywizard version="c">
    <header>
        <general>
            <title>
             Start 15:57:30 12.04.2015  End 16:07:18 12.04.2015
            </title>
            <gps>
                                     
            </gps>
            <comment>
                Generated by PANONEED       
            </comment>
        </general>
        <shooting mode="preset">
            <headOrientation>
                up
            </headOrientation>
            <cameraOrientation>
               portrait
            </cameraOrientation>
            <stabilizationDelay>
                0.5
            </stabilizationDelay>
            <startTime>
              15:57:30 12.04.2015   
            </startTime>
            <endTime>
              16:07:18 12.04.2015   
            </endTime>
        </shooting>
        <camera>
            <timeValue>
                1.0
            </timeValue>
            <bracketing nbPicts="001"/>
            <sensor coef="1.0" ratio="3:2 "/>
       </camera>
        <lens type="rectilinear">
            <focal>
                50.0         
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        </lens>
        <preset name="              "/>
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    </shoot>
</papywizard>

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klausesser
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:57 pm

Destiny wrote:do all 35mm lens have the entrance pupil..?



Of course not. The position of the entrance-pupil epends on construction-details.

But it´s rather easy to evaluate the NPP by yourself. There are many hints on the web.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:06 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:
I am just interested to compare the shooting patterns computed by Panoneed and VRDrive2 for same lens/body setups.


ok - here are two screenshot and the xml data from a pano-shoot with 50mm.


So...we can see that the Panoneed computes the need for far fewer images than the VRDrive2 when supposedly both are configured to shoot a sphere with 50mm lens on a Nikon FX body, with similar (?) requested overlap between images.

VRDrive2 - 104 images including a worthless -90 pitch nadir image - shots per row from the zenith:
1-13-18-20-20-18-13-1

Panoneed - 74 images with no -90 pitch nadir image - shots per row from the zenith:
1-12-17-17-16-11

Panoneed computes fewer images on every row and one less row.

Perhaps the VRDrive2 is not setup correctly or a different degree of overlap has been requested?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:35 pm

mediavets wrote:Perhaps the VRDrive2 is not setup correctly or a different degree of overlap has been requested?



The only explanation i can imagine is a wrong image-size/image-field setting. This would mean narrower
FOV and so the need for more images.

best, Klaus

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by leifs » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:57 pm

It's no problem to reduce the number of images in a sphere at the VRdrive2, just reduce the overlap. I've played with the percentage and the image below shows the shooting pattern using a 50mm eq lens, 18% horizontal and 18% vertical overlap. Resulting in 70 images to cover the sphere.

leifs
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:05 pm

leifs wrote:It's no problem to reduce the number of images in a sphere at the VRdrive2, just reduce the overlap. I've played with the percentage and the image below shows the shooting pattern using a 50mm eq lens, 18% horizontal and 18% vertical overlap. Resulting in 70 images to cover the sphere.

leifs


Would be of no help if she set a wrong sensor-area. Precise information about that is still missing.

Basically you´re right of course.

Klaus

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:12 pm

I think it would work unless the sensor aspect ratio was incorrectly set?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by leifs » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:49 pm

The first thing to do at the VRdrive2 is to enter the cameras and their specifics. The sensor size in millimeters, nothing else. For shooting in FF it should be easy: x=36.0mm by y=24.0mm. I'm not able to see how it is possible to get it wrong.
The example below is for my Sigma DP2 Quattro.

leifs
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:03 pm

leifs wrote:The first thing to do at the VRdrive2 is to enter the cameras and their specifics. The sensor size in millimeters, nothing else. For shooting in FF it should be easy: x=36.0mm by y=24.0mm. I'm not able to see how it is possible to get it wrong.
The example below is for my Sigma DP2 Quattro.

leifs

Comments/questions:

1. How come Papywizard doesn't need to be 'told' the dimensions in mm. of the sensor, but merely the aspect ratio and crop factor?

2. If shooting using a D800 in DX mode, with say the Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, what are the sensor dimensions?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:12 pm

mediavets wrote:
leifs wrote:The first thing to do at the VRdrive2 is to enter the cameras and their specifics. The sensor size in millimeters, nothing else. For shooting in FF it should be easy: x=36.0mm by y=24.0mm. I'm not able to see how it is possible to get it wrong.
The example below is for my Sigma DP2 Quattro.

leifs

Comments/questions:

1. How come Papywizard doesn't need to be 'told' the dimensions in mm. of the sensor, but merely the aspect ratio and crop factor?

2. If shooting using a D800 in DX mode, with say the Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, what are the sensor dimensions?



1) Not quite correct: the aspect is in the XML-code. But you need to tell the controller the sensor-size in mm. That one´s taken for shooting then.

2) DX of course: 24x16mm.

Klaus

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:05 pm

I am sure I have my setting right.. Lief is right, hard to make a mistake.. My VR Drive screen options are a bit different to Leifs, since I have the latest software but its still the same thing... I have overlaps of 20% but I will try 18%.. I will also remove that last image on the nadir.. Its really not needed and make a mess of the nadir footprint..

One important point Andrew pointed out.. I set my VR Drive to accept my D800 camera. But when using my Fisheye lens, that is a DX lens.. How does the VR Drive know this unless its auto magic since I have told it its a 15mm focal.. But is that focal right.. You cannot put in Decimal Fraction like 10.5 so how does the VR Drive know its a DX lens.. No matter what, I have always has issues with my 10.5 Fisheye.. I get the feeling that something is not right.. Perhaps the VR Drive does not now how to interpret a FX camera with a DX lens partially a Fisheye.. I can put in Fisheye in the settings but.. You can get a full frame fisheye of 15mm so how does the VR Drive know I am using a DX lens..

I have perfect results using a 35mm and a 50mm once I remove the nadir images. I can do that from the VR Drive and then my XML code will be fine..

I will take some pics of my VR Drive settings..

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:29 pm

Here are my setting.. If you can see I have a wrong setting I will edit it.. But I am sure its all good..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/VRDR ... tings.html

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:32 pm

This guild for setting up the NPP suggest that the focal length of a 10.5mm fisheye is 10.5mm, but I have been using 15mm.. The thing is.. as I said, I cannot put in factions of decimals into the VR Drive. I can either put in 10 or 11.. I have 15mm..

http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:36 pm

Leifs, looks like you too have that last nadir -90.. Have you tried to remove it..

I will set mine for an 18% overlap.. Then remove that nadir image.. Its not needed...

Destiny..

leifs wrote:It's no problem to reduce the number of images in a sphere at the VRdrive2, just reduce the overlap. I've played with the percentage and the image below shows the shooting pattern using a 50mm eq lens, 18% horizontal and 18% vertical overlap. Resulting in 70 images to cover the sphere.

leifs

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