Which 85mm is best for Spheres??  

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Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:49 am

Hi..

Which of these 85mm is the best one for full pano spheres. There is a huge difference in price..

How many images would it take to capture a sphere..

Destiny..
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:41 am

Destiny wrote:Hi..

Which of these 85mm is the best one for full pano spheres. There is a huge difference in price..

How many images would it take to capture a sphere..

Destiny..

On a DX or an FX body?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:49 am

FX... D800

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:33 pm

Destiny wrote:Hi..

Which of these 85mm is the best one for full pano spheres. There is a huge difference in price..

How many images would it take to capture a sphere..

Destiny..



The cheaper one. The f1,4 is nice for shooting wide open by hand. In terms of spherical
panoramas it would make no sense at all. Optically there´s no difference.

85mm on FX results in 200 images@20% overlap - providing around 6,4 GPx.

btw.: i checked my head´s settings again:
50mm on FX results in 74 images@20% overlap

So i´m irritated you need more than 100 images . . . i can only guess you mistakingly set your
image-size to DX instead of FX.

See the handbook, page 79 to 88 (in the german version).

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:30 pm

Perhaps the VRDrive2 computes shooting positions in a different way to the Panoneed?

A screenshot from Destiny in layers mode in the Panorama Editor would be informative.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:25 pm

mediavets wrote:Perhaps the VRDrive2 computes shooting positions in a different way to the Panoneed?


No - that´s all related to the sensorsize . . but i guess she confused some in-camera settings and set the "image-field" to 1,2, 1,5 (DX) or even 5:4 for avoiding to get very big data. This would explain why she needs 104 shots insteard of 74.
(Handbook page 79 to 88 - as said.)

mediavets wrote:A screenshot from Destiny in layers mode in the Panorama Editor would be informative.


Only if it tells us what was set as "image-field" in the camera. The D800 can act as a DX-camera and provides 2 more "image-sizes" which minimize the size of the sensor´s active area.
The instructions are rather confusing.

So if you tell the head that you´re using the minimized sensor-field it of course nees to shoot more frames.

That´s the only logical explanation i mean.

Klaus

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:30 pm

I don't understand. My D800 automatically goes from DX to FX depending on the lens attached..

With the 80mm, I was expiating less images than a 50mm...

What I am really after doing is using a normal lens for capturing a pano, a prime, but captures far less than the 50mm..

I will check on the 50mm to find out what is going on.. Not sure if I can tell my VR Drive that its a FX..

One thing is certain, the stitching is excellent as long as I use xml code with Roundshot Plugin.. If I use the Papywizard plugin, its not a good, which is strange since its the same xml code, exported as Papywizard from my VR Drive...

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:40 pm

If I go with an 85mm, I think I would go with the D.. Its the cheapest but this particular one is very good.. New is not always better.

I can get this one for about $560 locally.. But now I have doubts since the idea behind buying a normal lens was to capture fewer shots than with the 50mm.. My Mac struggled with those images so it would have a heart attack with more....

Destiny....
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:53 pm

Destiny

Some observations:

1. The longer the focal length there more images will be required to cover the sphere.

2. If the result is worse using the same XML data file with VRDrive and Papywixard that suggests there's something wrong with the Papywizard import wizard.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:04 am

I cannot see anything on page 79 to 88 to suggest setting between DX and FX... In fact there is no mention at all about the FX or DX in the manual.. So, now I have to check the camera... How do I check to see if the lens is on DX or FX setting.. I did see somewhere once but forget.. I am sure its automatic..

I am thinking that my VR Drive might no know.. But I tell it is a D800.. I will check with Urs...

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:07 am

If I use my 35mm, that would suggest less images but.. that is a DX lens so perhaps not..

Destiny...

mediavets wrote:Destiny

Some observations:

1. The longer the focal length there more images will be required to cover the sphere.

2. If the result is worse using the same XML data file with VRDrive and Papywixard that suggests there's something wrong with the Papywizard import wizard.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:31 am

Way expensive, but would the Nikon 24mm f/1.4 AF-S G N ED FX be an ideal normal lens for shooting panos.. Less images than the 50mm and 85mm but providing sharp images.. Its a Prime lens so it should be sharp..

If its a winner of a lens, I will chuck it on the list for when I am rich.. :lol:

How many images would a 24mm need to capture.. The demo images I have seen have been really nice and sharp and also quite big..

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:47 am

Its seems that Sigma will be launching a new 24mm Prime soon. After using my 50-500mm I would have no hesitation in buying Sigma.. Its less than half the price of the Nikon too.. Most reviews suggest its an amazingly sharp lens.. The only real review would be my own test though.. I would not have bought my 50-500mm unless I tested it out in the shop.. Since I bought my 50-500mm, I have never had any regrets.. Is a beautiful lens.. and sharp too.. even hand held.. So I would guess that this 24mm would be an amazing lens too..

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... g_hsm.html

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by klausesser » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:04 am

Destiny wrote:I don't understand. My D800 automatically goes from DX to FX depending on the lens attached..

With the 80mm, I was expiating less images than a 50mm...


destiny - 80mm is longer than 50mm. That means a narrower viewing-angle. Which means you need more shots to cover a sphere.

Destiny wrote:What I am really after doing is using a normal lens for capturing a pano, a prime, but captures far less than
the 50mm..


?? i don´t understand! 50mm IS a "normal" lens!

A 35mm lens takes 45 shots@20%.

Destiny wrote:I will check on the 50mm to find out what is going on.. Not sure if I can tell my VR Drive that its a FX..


You just need to tell the head that you´re using a 50mm lens on a 24x36mm (FX) sensor. That´s all.
Of course the camera needs to know that too . . ;)

Destiny wrote:One thing is certain, the stitching is excellent as long as I use xml code with Roundshot Plugin.. If I use the Papywizard plugin, its not a good, which is strange since its the same xml code, exported as Papywizard from my VR Drive...


I guess there´s a wrong setting in the VR2´s PW-export or in the camera. But why would you use the PW import at all when you use the VR-head?

Klaus

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:51 am

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:I don't understand. My D800 automatically goes from DX to FX depending on the lens attached..

With the 80mm, I was expiating less images than a 50mm...


destiny - 80mm is longer than 50mm. That means a narrower viewing-angle. Which means you need more shots to cover a sphere.

Yes.. I am starting to understand that...

Destiny wrote:What I am really after doing is using a normal lens for capturing a pano, a prime, but captures far less than
the 50mm..


?? i don´t understand! 50mm IS a "normal" lens!

Yes, I know, what I mean is, a normal lens that captures far less images than a 50mm...

A 35mm lens takes 45 shots@20%.

Destiny wrote:I will check on the 50mm to find out what is going on.. Not sure if I can tell my VR Drive that its a FX..


You just need to tell the head that you´re using a 50mm lens on a 24x36mm (FX) sensor. That´s all.
Of course the camera needs to know that too . . ;)

This is what I need to check..

Destiny wrote:One thing is certain, the stitching is excellent as long as I use xml code with Roundshot Plugin.. If I use the Papywizard plugin, its not a good, which is strange since its the same xml code, exported as Papywizard from my VR Drive...


I guess there´s a wrong setting in the VR2´s PW-export or in the camera. But why would you use the PW import at all when you use the VR-head?

I need the xml since there were large featureless areas. Without the XML i had one big black hole and one small hole...

Destiny

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:01 am

I have the 35mm1:2D. Are you suggesting that this will take less images than the 55mm even though this lens is a DX.. Which would be great if it does.. 45 shots would be perfect..

Also.. This entrance pupil chart does not cover my lens, it only covers the F2.0D. Do you think it might be the same as my lens.. http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:04 am

On my VR Drive, when it asks for the lens using my 50mm, that is what I put in..'50mm'.. I am assuming this is right...

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:24 am

Ok.. I found out what my issue with more images. I had it set at 30% overlap.

Just to make sure I have this as the right setting.. Regarding the "Focal length" of a 50mm and same with the 35mm.. thats what the VR Drive asks for.. So I put in 50mm for my 50mm and 35mm for my 35mm.. Is this correct as the focal length?

Destiny...

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:14 am

Ok... I inputed my 35mm set the focal length to 35mm which seems correct, set the overlap to 20% and my VR Drive captures 104 images.. Really not sure what I am supposed to do to get 45 shots using a 35mm... I am sure I have done everything correctly.. My 50mm captures the same number of images...

I add the images into PTGui and I get Excellent, and APG V4 I achieve a RMS of 2.15. Better than the Fisheye, which is a different issue.. The big current issue is the same as I had the last time I tried to use my 35m.. I feel that if PTGui can do render my images why can't APG V4.. All I get is this error message...

Destiny..
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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:44 am

Destiny wrote:I have the 35mm1:2D. Are you suggesting that this will take less images than the 55mm even though this lens is a DX..
hich would be great if it does.. 45 shots would be perfect..

Also.. This entrance pupil chart does not cover my lens, it only covers the F2.0D. Do you think it might be the same as my lens.. http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Destiny..

That is an FX lens I think.

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:21 am

Well you might be right since when I put the lens on, the FX single is displayed.. I thought that the 35mm was DX.. I will check on this..

I am processing the images now. Oh so long.. hard for my old Mac.. :rolleyes:

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:45 am

Destiny wrote:Well you might be right since when I put the lens on, the FX single is displayed.. I thought that the 35mm was DX.. I will check on this..

This is the lens you have I think? If so it's an FX lens.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/35af.htm

Nikon DX lenses always have DX is the name/branding. DX lenses use smaller glass so produce an image designed to cover the smaller DX sensor. An FX lens designed to produce an image on the larger FX sensor can of course also be used on a DX sensor. But a DX lens will not normally work well on an FX sensor body, although the Nikon 10.5 fisheye (and some other fisheye lenses designed for cropped sensor bodies) can be used on an FX body is you cut off the lens shield.
http://www.360pano.de/en/tokina-sigma-nikon.html

I am processing the images now. Oh so long.. hard for my old Mac.. :rolleyes:

Destiny..

If you are just testing shot patterns then choose a lower res. setting in the camera to speed up processing?

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:23 am

Thank you for that info..

Yes, when I come to render I will set it to 6000, which is fine for a test.. its the processing from RAW to TIF, to Fusion and then detection which takes the time.. Rendering can be controlled..

When I put the lens on, I can see FX top right so it must be an FX lens. What I am really trying to achieve is better resolution than I get with my 10.5 fisheye.. I am certain that a Prime would do much better but which one is best.. I do not what huge images, I just want quality.. That is what I have always strived for... I am never happy which in many ways is a good thing..

I am still uncertain what is the most appropriate lens when choosing a normal prime lens with fewer images. Klaus suggest I should only need 45 but my VR Drive makes many more than that and I do not know why.. I might run a test tomorrow.. Using the 35mm, I will run a test with 30% overlap.. By rights I would need more images.. This test I have an overlap of 20% but that still makes 104 image per bracketed layer... and since I chose 4 bracketed shot, thats 416 images each 108MB 4912 X 7360 which is the smallest size my D800 captures AFAIK....

Destiny..

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by mediavets » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:20 am

Destiny wrote:Thank you for that info..

Yes, when I come to render I will set it to 6000, which is fine for a test.. its the processing from RAW to TIF, to Fusion and then detection which takes the time.. Rendering can be controlled..

When I put the lens on, I can see FX top right so it must be an FX lens. What I am really trying to achieve is better resolution than I get with my 10.5 fisheye.. I am certain that a Prime would do much better but which one is best.. I do not what huge images, I just want quality.. That is what I have always strived for... I am never happy which in many ways is a good thing..

The longer the focal length the greater the resolution (pixel dimensions) of the stitched pano but The more images you'll need to cover the sphere; and the more computer power you'll need to process the images and stitch and render the panos.

What is the shortest focal length lens you have that isn't a fisheye?

I am still uncertain what is the most appropriate lens when choosing a normal prime lens with fewer images. Klaus suggest I should only need 45 but my VR Drive makes many more than that and I do not know why.. I might run a test tomorrow..

Let's be clear...Klaus says his Panoneed head computes a need for only 45 images at 20% overlap.

You are using a VRDrive2 that may use a different pattern for the same focal length lens. For example it may not reduce the number of images per row approaching zenith and nadir in the same way (or at all?)

That's why I suggested you show us a screenshot of the Panorama Editor in layers mode then we can visualise the pattern of shots.

Using the 35mm, I will run a test with 30% overlap.. By rights I would need more images.. This test I have an overlap of 20% but that still makes 104 image per bracketed layer... and since I chose 4 bracketed shot, thats 416 images each 108MB 4912 X 7360 which is the smallest size my D800 captures AFAIK....

Destiny..

No, that's the largest size the D800 captures.

I quote from Nikon's specs:

FX format (36 x 24): 7,360 x 4,912 (L), 5,520 x 3,680 (M), 3,680 x 2,456 (S)

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Re: Which 85mm is best for Spheres??

by Destiny » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Is it really, I thought it was set to Small.. I will have to check..

Andrew, is this the information you need..

I am very happy with the results of this test, so if my camera is set to the largest I can reduce the time greatly.. I see S F, so my understanding that meant Small and Fine.. I will check it out.. Will that reduct the number of images if I set it to Small...?

My test pano is made using 4 bracketed shots, 2 +/- EVs...

Destiny..
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