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Temporary page - Translation Talks history

Alex 2006-11-13 Okay, this is just to place some history and some design about translation phase. I added the name of the translator before the page to show the assignation. For the moment, everything is assigned to beeloba. Perhaps, we should think of a status for each page : status 1 : just transfered, nothing translated status 2 : translated by the translator status 3 : checked by [bo] status 4 : finished What do you think ?


Beeloba: Fine for me


[bo]: Well, why use "status" instead of the actual word? Clear wording helps

  1. Just copied
  2. Translated
  3. Edited out
  4. Finished

Also, there should be a way to list what's to be done on a page. I suggest posting a short note on the top of each page - for example, the Main Window needs a few images and a link.

Another thing: in the Groups view, I will remove the Detection Options part and point to Application options. There will be an explanation this is "local", instead of "global" settings.


2006-11-14 Alexandre

Great [bo], it's obviously better. I'm thinking too much "dev"


Beeloba: Oops it becomes a little dark to me

I like "Currently editing" when this is the case -

Am I missing something in: beeloba : Groups view => Currently editing ??

I'm right now on this one: beeloba : Application settings =>

If [bo] is in that "Currently editing" can you just replace the name by yours, please.


[bo]: OK, I fixed that. It was a leftover from Alexandre marking who's translating... Going to finish the edit of Groups view now, after a delightful lunch...

Another thing: please don't forget to add margin: 0 0 0 1em; to each float: right; you do, because otherwise the text touches the floated box. Fixed example: Groups view TOC.


beeloba: Wow, I'm not really familiar with wiki, templates and floated box.


Beeloba:

Editing Template:Option Editeur

"Puisque la valeur choisie est prise en compte immédiatement et qu'on peut changer en passant par le menu Editer de la fenêtre de l'éditeur,"

Il y a un menu éditer dans la fenêtre de l'éditeur !!


[bo]: I've just finished the Groups view: http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Special:Recentchanges?title=Groups_view&curid=1726&diff=2140&oldid=2088

As you can see, I've added plenty of new content, specifically the Basics part, in the Concept part and a few examples and explanations. I find those came up quite nice and if you want, you can port them back to French.

Tomorrow, if time allows, I'll begin the Panoramas View.


Beeloba: Là je suis d'accord avec [bo] - Le fait de décrire avec des mots simples ce que vous utilisez comme métaphore dans un concept est plus agréable - Les notions de groupes, d'éditeur de mélangeur etc. doivent être accessibles aux non-initiés.

Ça me fait penser à la notion de "scène" et "d'acteur" dans les applies Macromedia, ou à la façon qu'a Microsoft de mettre dans ses menus des mots hors conventions usuelles.

On est toujours dérouté par une nouvelle applie, pour des raisons techniques ou simplement de l'usage des mots nouvellement "conceptualisés"


[bo]: I *almost* got what Beeloba is saying, thanks to the Babelfish :)

By the way, who will upload the English interface images?


Alex : I will do the upload as I also have the concerned panorama used for the screenshot.


Alex 2006-11-15

I changed a little the header in the global settings by adding icon to illustrate difference between MAC and Windows version. Here's the icons in two version 16 and 32pixel wide : Icon-apple-32.png Icon-apple-16.png Icon-windows-32.png Icon-windows-16.png Feel free to used them to specify an OS dependent shortcut for example.


Beeloba nov 15 - 11:40

Hi [bo] Finally finished that: Application settings => Translated To be edited - [bo]


[bo]: Great! I'm quite busy today, but I'll try to do the Panorama View page.

The icons look cool, too. I don't have a Mac right now, but I guess the shortcuts are the same (just using Command instead of Control)? Maybe it's best to make a special page that contains all shortcuts used in APP?


Alex : Good Idea. We already have a special page with all icone and signification, and a shortcuts page is a good extension of it.


Beeloba: For the shortcuts on Mac, that would be too simple to have a set of keys that can be switched.
We have 3 fonctions keys that are currently used: cmd, option AND ctrl key...
Do you see what happens when a user doesn't have the clue ;-)
Take the ctrl-save on APP, there is nothing that's going to happen on a Mac.
FAQ: Is it a bug or did I miss something?


[bo]: Done the Panoramas View: http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Special:Recentchanges?title=Panoramas_view&curid=1727&diff=2205&oldid=2071

Again, as you can see, a bit of new content and adaptation to make it similar to Groups and Main window pages.

I'll be doing the Settings page tomorrow, probably, but I was wondering why Rendering options have their own page? If we want to go into detail, Detection and Optimization need such pages too. I see no reason to threat a page differently from the rest. I propose Application settings to become a branch with 5 sub-pages, like this:

  • Settings
    • General
    • Detection
    • Optimization
    • Editor
    • Render

You thoughts?


Alex : In fact, the general setting is only accessible through general settings, so there's no need to have a subpage. Detection / optimization / editor are templates. Render : this page is not the same as the only before the rendering, it has some tiny changes. That's why it cannot be a subpage.

Just a remark following a discussion with beeloba. Even if detection/optimization/editor seems the same as the one that can be accessed through group setting/control point editor setting/panorama editor settings, it doesn't affect the same object. When changing something through the application settings in detection for example, it will affect any new group, not only one of them (that's the case when going through group detection setting). Same behavior happens with optimization and editor.


[bo]: Alexandre, I did not understand that, sorry. What does it mean that "the general setting is only accessible through general settings"? That's the expected thing, is it not? What do you call a "template"?

About the remark - I've stated that clearly in the Groups/Panoramas pages:

http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Groups_view#Group_detection_settings

http://en.wiki.autopano.net/Panoramas_view#Render

I've added that text, as it was not in the translation.


Alex : The general setting (language, cache size, nb of cpu) is a setting that only exists in the main setting dialog box. All others (detection, optimization, etc) can be found elsewhere but with another context (in general, context is for all new groups, in groups for example, it's just for one group).


[bo]: Oh, yes, of course, that's what I meant and that's what I described in the Groups/Panoramas pages. So everything is in order :)


[bo]: I have a question. Is there a special page in the wiki, where we explain about the virtual file writer? That it needs small amounts of RAM, it can write huge files, is multithreaded, presumably we'll have network rendering, cache does not help render speed, etc?

Also, there should be a place to explain about temp file sizes - this is connected with the virtual file writer, smartblend, etc.

I've put up a warning sign until this question is resolved, just to remind us :)

And another thing. Can you explain what does that mean: "It has influence on exported projects in Panotools" - regarding the number of CP per image pair. What influence does it have? Also, I've added a text there, that too many CP is not going to do a better pano. Can you cite a nice average number?


Alex : It's just a straight CP / image pair number. If you set 75, you'll get an average of 75 per image pair in the exported panotools. You can get many many more. Up to 500 in fact. Now, a nice average is the default value 50.

BTW : can someone check for some good title before I transfer the pages here ? Thanks.

Another point : for a global coherence, christophe that is a professional translator will do the final pass in the english (after [bo]).

Tomorrow, I'll put some new pages here and affect some to beeloba and other to christophe.


[bo]: Great to have a professional recheck the pages! I'm sure with the amount of text I've rewritten there are bound to be problems here and there. Just to keep you updated - I've done some of the Application options today, but work got in the way, so I'll prolly finish it tomorrow.

On a side note - I've calculated that, going with that tempo, the complete manual will be ready around Christmas. I can't spend all day editing and when I do, most of the time I just rewrite the text from scratch. I say - release at least a RC3 to have some time on our hands before the final.

What's that of the page titles? For those pages listed on the Main page?

OK, let me get this clear:

  • Panorama editor <= nice, and I've already linked to that exact page here and there
    • Geometry editing <= sounds nice
    • Color and luminosity correction - how about making this simply "Color correction"?
    • Control point editor <= how about plural - "points"?
    • Group editor <= this is bound to cause confusion with the Groups view; how about "Composition layers", or "Panorama layers"? user are calling them layers anyway
    • Editor settings <= this shouldn't be needed, just a link in the Panorama editor page to the Settings page



[Tophe]: Nov. 16, 2007. Just dropping a line to introduce myself, thank Alexandre for bringing me in, and to say Hi to everyone involved. My name is Christophe and as Alexandre mentioned I do French/English and English/French translation for a living since quite a few years now. A big chunk of what I do is related to the IT field: Interface, Help and User's Manual translation. I want to thank Alexandre for bringing me on board, I've been following the project for about a year now and I must say that I am very impressed with the job being done on the software; it's just a wonderful tool. I think most of us have dreamed of it for a long time and Kolor made it come true. All that to say: I am very excited to contribute to the project. I also wanted to say Hi to [Bo] and [beeloba]. I read the temporary English Wiki and I saw you guys are already working hard at getting things done! I think I'll be jumping in tomorrow, or whenever Alexandre is giving the go ahead for the translation of the new material. As Alexandre mentioned the plan is to get everything translated, then I will do a global editing to harmonize everything before release.

As for what's currently on the burner, my two cents:

  • Panorama editor <= nice, and I've already linked to that exact page here and there// Sounds good
    • Geometry editing <= sounds nice //Sounds good
    • Color and luminosity correction - how about making this simply "Color correction"?//Think there is more to it than just Color Correction, I would keep the original title.
    • Control point editor <= how about plural - "points"?//Ya
    • Group editor <= this is bound to cause confusion with the Groups view; how about "Composition layers", or "Panorama layers"? user are calling them layers anyway//I like "Panorama Layers". It's clear.

A little note regarding translation and formatting: can you guys capitalize all words pertaining to a function, a feature and a window/dialog title? For example "Panorama editor" should read "Panorama Editor" whether it's a header or it appears in the middle of a paragraph. It just helps English readers who are accustomed to that tech. writing convention.

Well I am sure we’ll have plenty to talk about in the upcoming days. I am glad to be here, talk to you guys soon.

Christophe


[bo]: Hey Christophe! Thanks for the introduction; seems like the translation will really be picking up now!

About the Color and luminosity correction - I was thinking of a shorter title, cuz I guess it's what will be used throughout the wiki. Also, the community is already using that term. I can't really see myself replying in the forums "did you check the color and luminosity settings?". Anyways, that's not such a big deal and I'll go with whatever Alexandre chooses.


About the capitalization - I wondered about that, too, and now that you've pointed it out it seems better, so I'll recheck the three pages I've done so far. However, there's a slight problem. If I rename the Groups view to Groups View the links seize to work. I can pipe with Groups view|Groups View, but that suxx - it's better to rename the pages URLs...


Beeloba:

Hi Christophe, [bo] and Kolor team
Thanks for joining us on that work. There is quite a lot to be done in fact.

About the Color and luminosity correction what about Just Color Balance if in use of course.
Or Color & Brightness


[bo]: Color Balance sounds nice, as it does not seem to need "settings" after it.

BTW: Alexandre will have a lot of work on the language in Autopano interface. Following the naming convention (capitalize major functions), as well as some renaming (Link editor -> Control Points Editor; Layers Editor -> Panorama Layers, etc)

Another thing: what should we rename "Find control points on link where no one exist" to? I've edited it to "Find control points where none exist" for now, but do you find that a good description? It should need an APP interface change, too.

Yet another: removed the "only" word from "Bad control points cleaner" options. It should need an APP interface change, too.


Alex : Capitalizing word in the documentation when refering to a tool is a good style. If you mean to change it in the software too, that is not possible, too much work. Changing some words, yes, of course (I found some english word that are not really good). The issue is that if we change caps, it would force translator of the software to rework everything.

I propose to place on this page Temporary page - Translation change proposal, all asked changement in interface (UI not documentation).


Tophe: Hi all, regarding capitalization I was just refering to the manual and documentation, not the UI itself, no sweet. BTW Alex, can I get both French and English ressource files to import in my terminology DB for quick reference during Xlation?, I will check them as well for "bad English words".

-[Alex]:OK to keep the Temporary page - Translatiton change proposal to UI change requests.
-[bo]: Yes the pages URLs should be renamed as well.
-[bo]: "Find control points where none exist"// How about Create(or Generate) control points ?
-[beeloba]: Color and Brightness sounds good to me.


Alex: To beeloba and christophe : you both have two pages to translate. To christophe, I sent you an email about the ressource files.


Beeloba: To Alex : je suis dans la page de l'éditeur de pano. Je vois des trucs dans la page que je n'ai pas sur l'interface Mac - sauvegarde et export vers panotools ne sont pas dans la fenêtre décrite mais dans les menus.
Si la petite fenêtre de pré-édition était décrite ici, il manquerait le rendu


beeloba: To Alex: dans Editing Panorama Layers (section) Interface : L'interface se divise en deux zones verticales l'une au dessus de l'autre :
Plus simplement enlever le verticale dans la version française (Alex : okay => note n'hesite pas à editer ces petits trucs directement dans la version francaise)


Alex: I added to the new page the interwiki link => you'll have at the end of the left column the link to the corresponding page in the other language. That's nice to go quickly to the corresponding page in another language.

BTW : RC3 out ... :)


Beeloba:
Okay, Okay, Trouvé après DL de la RC3, c'était pas la bonne version d'applie, une petite note disant dans RC3 please ;-)


Beeloba: what is the code for making colored text?


[Tophe] ==> Beeloba

<span style="color:#FF4000;">ton texte en couleur</span>

Okay merci, compris


[Tophe] ==> Alex

running into problems with two sentences (so far) in the Color Correction page. I marked them in red. Can you take a look and enlighten me? mekekididanlwiki? :-)


[Tophe]
First drafts completed, changed status on pages ready for editing, translated new section in Groups View. Thinking about waiting to have all materials translated before doing final edit. Can you guys take a look at the drafts and share comments/suggestions/criticisms?
Alex ==> I sometime used the words stitch/stitching/stitched in my translation. If for marketing reasons you want me to change to assemble/assembling/assembled I can do that at the editing stage.
On Standby waiting for where to go next.