Special f/x Within a Pano - Is there merit to this?

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:55 am

Mind you, my husbands notebook/laptop came with QT preinstalled and I have seen many XP PC's with it too.. So perhaps its only a limited issue.. but its not that hard to download anyway and its really handy to have.. So I do not really see it as a problem...

D

In my opinion it's a real problem.

If you use Firefox as a browser it's not obvious at all that you need to download the QT Player. Most users wouldn't know they need it nor how to get it. It's a huge download and ever after Apple's automatic software updating will try and get you to also download iTunes.

QT Player is not 'handy to have' for most people. It's a clumsy and buggy piece of software - at least on Windows.

Any person viewing tours from a Windows PC in a business environment or an educational establsihment will almost certainly not be permitted to download and install programs.

I admire you for trying to get a transparent cross-platform solution to handling video and audio in krpano-based tours for both Flash-enabled and iDevices. But as you have demonstrated it seems it is not yet possible.

You've ended up with a 'solution' that does not offer the same behaviour on both Flash-enabled and iDevice platforms. It is clumsy to say the least on iDevices and (worse) also compromises playback on Flash-enabled platforms which otherwise didn't have a problem.

I dare say the iDevice-compatible krpano player will at some stage handle video and audio and that may enable Kolor to offer a transparent cross-platform solution to the support for video and audio on virtual tours created with PTP.

Until then, in my opinion, most PTP users would be well advised just to accept that video and audio will not be played back in 'mobile compatible' tours when viewed on iDevices and to design their 'mobile compatible' tours accordingly.

In the meantime, in the case of video it would be nice if Kolor could modify PTP so that things degraded more gracefully than they do now on iDevices - for example if a still image appeared in place of the video or something like that.

Here's an iDevice related cartoon that may amuse you?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/?cartoon=8408164&cc=8353600

Last edited by mediavets on Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:30 am

You do realise Andrew that you do not need QT now... The PC and Mac version is Flash as per normal... However, the iDevice is a QT but its the same url...
And... you mentioned about a still image in place of the Video on an iDevice.. Well.. that's what you should be seeing... Its an image with Play on it... since you cannot play it within the pano it opens a new window.. Perhaps that does not work your end.. It works on my iPod fine.. The only issue with that is I cannot put it to Distort true to stop it moving face on to the panning.. it looks stupid as is, but kolor said they do not support that feature so there is nothing I can do... My pano is no different to a normal pano with a movie playing in it.. The only difference what I have done.. when you open the same link in an iDevice it will open but without the movie playing, there will an image with a url on it to the movie.. I did not do the same with the Audio link.. since I just tried it out as a demo.. the music icon still shows but the link will not work.. I did not bother making a url for it.. The ONLY thing that I have added to my movie pano, is there is a link on the movie.. Thats it.. but unfortunately that link opens a QT movie meant for the iDevice.. but anyone using Firefox or what ever does not need to click on the movie or play it since it already plays within the pano.. As soon as I work out a way of making the two separate then I can remove the link on the PC/Mac flash pano version so if any one clicks on the movie it does nothing..... it will only have an active value in an iDevice where it opens the movie in a new window...

I have just downloaded a different software app that allows for all the editing you are suggesting.. Things are changing in this area so fast, I almost forgot that there are other options out there.. But until iDevices can use any kind of media then it wouldn't matter what software I use, it would still have the same issues.. To be honest Andrew, I am looking forward to playing with htlm5.. Perhaps it will be out in CS6 but I really do not know much about it yet.. Not sure if it will fix the issue with video.. but this will be one of its main features... apparently....

Time to put this experiment to bed.... but if anyone want any information on what I did I will be happy to provide it..

You will be happy to know that I am running out of ideas to try out in kolor software... My next project will be a really cool interactive thumb nav.. I am a bit disappointed you never gave feedback on my other really cool thumb nav.. since it was something you mentioned in a ticket that a better thumb nave would be a good thing... I thought it looked really really cool..

D....

In my opinion it's a real problem.

If you use Firefox as a browser it's not obvious at all that you need to download the QT Player. Most users wouldn't know they need it nor how to get it. It's a huge download and ever after Apple's automatic software updating will try and get you to also download iTunes.

QT Player is not 'handy to have' for most people. It's a clumsy and buggy piece of software - at least on Windows.

Any person viewing tours from a Windows PC in a business environment or an educational establsihment will almost certainly not be permitted to download and install programs.

I admire you for trying to get a transparent cross-platform solution to handling video and audio in krpano-based tours for both Flash-enabled and iDevices. But as you have demonstrated it seems it is not yet possible.

You've ended up with a 'solution' that does not offer the same behaviour on both Flash-enabled and iDevice platforms. It is clumsy to say the least on iDevices and (worse) also compromises playback on Flash-enabled platforms which otherwise didn't have a problem.

I dare say the iDevice-compatible krpano player will at some stage handle video and audio and that may enable Kolor to offer a transparent cross-platform solution to the support for video and audio on virtual tours created with PTP.

Until then, in my opinion, most PTP users would be well advised just to accept that video and audio will not be played back in 'mobile compatible' tours when viewed on iDevices and to design their 'mobile compatible' tours accordingly.

In the meantime, in the case of video it would be nice if Kolor could modify PTP so that things degraded more gracefully than they do now on iDevices - for example if a still image appeared in place of the video or something like that.

Here's an iDevice related cartoon that may amuse you?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/?cartoon=8408164&cc=8353600

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:52 am

You do realise Andrew that you do not need QT now... The PC and Mac version is Flash as per normal... However, the iDevice is a QT but its the same url...
And... you mentioned about a still image in place of the Video on an iDevice.. Well.. that's what you should be seeing... Its an image with Play on it... since you cannot play it within the pano it opens a new window.. Perhaps that does not work your end.. It works on my iPod fine.. The only issue with that is I cannot put it to Distort true to stop it moving face on to the panning.. it looks stupid as is, but kolor said they do not support that feature so there is nothing I can do... My pano is no different to a normal pano with a movie playing in it.. The only difference what I have done.. when you open the same link in an iDevice it will open but without the movie playing, there will an image with a url on it to the movie.. I did not do the same with the Audio link.. since I just tried it out as a demo.. the music icon still shows but the link will not work.. I did not bother making a url for it.. The ONLY thing that I have added to my movie pano, is there is a link on the movie.. Thats it.. but unfortunately that link opens a QT movie meant for the iDevice.. but anyone using Firefox or what ever does not need to click on the movie or play it since it already plays within the pano.. As soon as I work out a way of making the two separate then I can remove the link on the PC/Mac flash pano version so if any one clicks on the movie it does nothing..... it will only have an active value in an iDevice where it opens the movie in a new window...

Normally Flash-enabled viewers would be able to click on the 'in place' movie to stop/start it. But with your 'solution' if you attempt that it will instead try and open the Quicktime player in/on a new page. The video is a clickable object and people will click on it whether you intend them tyo or not.

Hence my comment that not only is it a clunky 'solution' for the iDevice but it also compromises playback on Flash-enabled platforms.

The desired solution is for movies to play 'in place' with the same appearance, same controls and same behaviours on both platforms. The krpano iDevice-compatible player doesn't permit that yet. Until it does and those features are supported via the PTP GUI then I for one will just accept that 'mobile compatible' PTP tours do not offer video and audio playback on iDevices and design tours accordingly; but it would be nice if PTP automagically placed a still image in the place of the 'in place' video rather than a black pulsing circles animated GIF.

I have just downloaded a different software app that allows for all the editing you are suggesting.. Things are changing in this area so fast, I almost forgot that there are other options out there..

Do tell us more.

Last edited by mediavets on Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:15 am

Yes I know.. this is a problem.. I realise that the stop and start relies on clicking on the video... but until kolor make the alt image separate I can then keep separate the url so it does not open the QT, you are right about that for sure.. Real pain..

I agree Andrew that the alt image should be easy to change.. Every time I change anything I have to change that code, anther pain...

and.. I for TWO will just accept that its not the time to rely on video in iDevice from ptp until technology changes...

At the end of the day, I have checked out other software apps but I do not like them.. I really feel that ptp and apg will get better and better and I really hope that a version is released that allows people like me who love to play with the guts of the program to develop a more flexible and editing version of the software app... I also think you are right that they do not take advantage of all the potential plugins but I am not a tech'o so I do not know what is involved in this... One thing I will say though.. just look at the advancements between the last version of to this one.. I had an idea which might sound crazy but hey.. you know me, I love crazy...

I love the idea of the droplets.. so I am wondering if it might be possible to put droplet icons in ptp where all you have to do is drag it onto the graphic and it creates or adapts it... That would be cool... I think its really already there... It would just need a tech'o to put it into a workable graphic interface... and while I am talking crazy.. i have a vision that whats really needed in a pano movie is a virtual space, scalable cube where any graphic from 2D to 3D can be place via xyz in real time.... Well.. it might just need a crazy programmer to create it... you can already do this in 3D software, but not as I am suggesting.. Check this link out.. http://www.cult3d.com/index.php
I cannot use this software plugin now since I have a Mac.. but it was just fantastic for spinning a 3D objects in real time and 3D space.. Well that me done..

Thats the weekend over for me just about.. Babies birthday today, she is 2 so its cake time...

Thank you for some good comments and feedback...

Bye

Destiny...

Normally Flash-enabled viewers would be able to click on the 'in place' movie to stop/start it. But with your 'solution' if you attempt that it will instead try and open the Quicktime player in/on a new page. The video is a clickable object and people will click on it whether you intend them tyo or not.

Hence my comment that not only is it a clunky 'solution' for the iDevice but it also compromises playback on Flash-enabled platforms.

The desired solution is for movies to play 'in place' with the same appearance, same controls and same behaviours on both platforms. The krpano iDevice-compatible player doesn't permit that yet. Until it does and those features are supported via the PTP GUI then I for one will just accept that 'mobile compatible' PTP tours do not offer video and audio playback on iDevices and design tours accordingly; but it would be nice if PTP automagically placed a still image in the place of the 'in place' video rather than a black pulsing circles animated GIF.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:54 am

Hi to my special f/x fans… I am sure there is at least one out there….

This is more serious use of f/x in a pano.. Well… today anyway…

On the wall you will see a working clock set to Australia time but I can set it to any world time…. And the funny thing with this clock is.. I put a mirror copy of it on the mirror.. Really cool since its reverse so goes backwards.. Just like a reflection would be in real life… But even more funny, when I made this pano my silly husband poked his head around the corner so I got him in shot so I had to edit him out of the mirror, but it was hard to do so I took the light switch out but forgot to put it back…… To much stuffing about to put it back now… In the bathroom, it has a swf ready to go for the animated clouds in the window which I will do soon, that should look cool… I hope!... The second pano is a US Bar, with a clock on the wall too, and a swf over the TV ready to put a movie onto it.. That pano also has swf candle on the table ready for my real looking flame…

What I do when I put swf, interactivity and animated png’s into my pano’s is to plan where they will go so all I have to do is change the xml code and add the graphic… Then its easy… a bit of forward planning… There are a few animated hotspots above the bath but they do nothing yet.. .just there for future stuff…. My ‘?’ button still has my interactive thumb navigation but the only one liked is the first thumb to Google until I build my pano tour.. I really love my thumb navigation…. I tried putting water in the bath but that looked stupid so I dropped that idea for now…

I hope my clock works your end but remember its set Australia time…

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/interactive/3/TESTHOT.html

Destiny

[Gordon]

by Gordon » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Hmm clock is showing UK time here in the UK, I have a feeling the clock script is java based and takes the time from the machine it's running on!

Best
Gordon

[gkaefer]

by gkaefer » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:38 pm

Hmm clock is showing UK time here in the UK, I have a feeling the clock script is java based and takes the time from the machine it's running on!

Best
Gordon

yes its taking locals pc time of the viewer. just change your PCs/Macs time and clock will change in live too...
Georg

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:40 am

Thats good!.... some people told me that it is still Aus time so I was assuming the script was wrong... I thought it would not work and defaulting to Aus time.. It should automatically set to your system time.. Good to know it works ok... Its not actually java, its xml...and action script... I am currently creating a grandmother clock with with swinging pendents and chimes .. Living in Aus its hard to find a really old rustic home to take a pano in for all the things I would like to create.. Rather than key framing or creating a movie sprit, I am doing everything in action script, that way it will work much better... and the file size will be very low....

D

Hmm clock is showing UK time here in the UK, I have a feeling the clock script is java based and takes the time from the machine it's running on!

Best
Gordon

Last edited by Destiny on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:10 pm

I hope my clock works your end but remember its set Australia time…

Destiny: you better shouldn´t use this badly modeled candle light on the table in the restaurant . . . .
And the clock on the wall definitely needs shadows . .

best, Klaus

Last edited by klausesser on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Hi Klaus... ya.. I am looking at the shadow thing for realism... really hard to make it look like it was really there.. I have just made a different looking clock.. An old looking brass one.. but I do not like it so I will try again... but you are right, it needs shadow... It would have been easier if there was clock there and I could just replace the bezel part.. much more easier..

Regarding the candle.. yes.. its not right yet i know..but its not badly modelled.. its a real candle image but not a good image... Its just there as a trail hot spot ready for the real one with a real looking flame but I have not made that yet... and I also need to make the clouds animate at the window in the bathroom.. both are just hot spots in demo mode at the moment.. I will then try to make a shadow for the candle too... Just trying to provide an interesting theme in a pano.. No real value to anyone... but it might be...

I am working on some silly stuff too.... like hidden siding doors.. yes I know.. not what most want but I am doing for my students at school... they have to find the hidden item, perhaps a treasure map...... Surprisingly easy to do... but of cause no good for you.. just playing with it for my students.. They are only year 5.... about 8 to 9 years old...

Thank you for your feedback, always good to have... by the way.. did you ever check out my '?' button on my buttons.. My demo thumb navigation... not linked to my pano yet.. just in testing mode... but it looks good... I think!

D;)

I hope my clock works your end but remember its set Australia time…

Destiny: you better shouldn´t use this badly modeled candle light on the table in the restaurant . . . .
And the clock on the wall definitely needs shadows . .

best, Klaus

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:44 pm

by the way.. did you ever check out my '?' button on my buttons.. My demo thumb navigation... not linked to my pano yet.. just in testing mode... but it looks good... I think!

D;)

I like aspects of it a lot:

- the way the you scale up the thumbnails to a decent size when you hover over them.

- the nice titles - although perhaps they should display during the no-user-interaction animation sequence too?

- the way the thumbnails bar scrolls to accommodate all the thumbnails, but could get unusable with a large number of thumbnails but then is there any elegant way to navigate a tour with a large number of pano scenes?

I'm less sure what I think about:

- combining the thumbnails in/with the help screen - Will users expect to find them there? Will many users never find them?

- the no-user-interaction animation - I just can't decide whether I love or hate this.

Big drawback:

- it doesn't work in 'mobile compatible' tours displayed on iDevices.

.........

However there's no doubt that for Flash-enabled platforms this is infinitely superior, in terms of functionality and appearance, to the current rather primitive thumbnails feature.

Last edited by mediavets on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:52 pm

oh well.. at least its not all bad...Lots of good! .. If I changed all of your comments then I am sure someone else would not like that, so its very rubbery anyway... Things can be changed.... My intention is to put the button for Nav at the bottom opposite the top one which is for Mobile devices.. So there will be two navs and I will try to make it a alt so either or will appear depending on the viewing platform... If I can get it to do the alt then I will put both buttons in the same place - at the top... I put it on my last ? button just to test to interactivity of it and to see if it worked, I mentioned about the ? location when I first posted it for you all to see.. It took a very long time and heaps of trail and errors to get it to where it is...

Not sure what you mean by.... '- the no-user-interaction animation - I just can't decide whether I love or hate this.'

Thank your for you comments...

I soooo like this..'However there's no doubt that for Flash-enabled platforms this is infinitely superior, in terms of functionality and appearance, to the current rather primitive thumbnails feature.'

D

Last edited by Destiny on Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:11 pm

Not sure what you mean by.... '- the no-user-interaction animation - I just can't decide whether I love or hate this.'
D

I mean that once you open the Help/thumbnail display, via the '?' key, the thumbnails animate, enlarging and scrolling sequentially automatically, without any user interaction.

Last edited by mediavets on Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:34 am

arrr.. ok.. well, I guess you have to either love that or hate it.. emm... It might be a man thing...:lol:

D:cool:

I mean that once you open the Help/thumbnail display, via the '?' key, the thumbnails animate, enlarging and scrolling sequentially automatically, without any user interaction.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:50 am

Shadow now on clock.. I think it looks a bit more real now...

Also changed script, time should auto set to your system time in any country...

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/interactive/3/TESTHOT.html

D

Destiny: you better shouldn´t use this badly modeled candle light on the table in the restaurant . . . .
And the clock on the wall definitely needs shadows . .

best, Klaus

Last edited by Destiny on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:25 am

Hi.. I changed the '?' button since it might go unnoticed so I now hope it is now more noticeable and relevant....

D

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:23 am

Hi.. I changed the '?' button since it might go unnoticed so I now hope it is now more noticeable and relevant....

D

I like it - but you didn't reflect that change in the Help screen ....

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:57 am

oh well done for being so observent.. really funny when the penny dropped... I had to think for a few seconds.. Thank you for that... . I did not even think about it.. I guess I must be getting tried.. hard day with my students.. Not to worry... I have updated that now Andrew..

D..

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:07 am

oh well done for being so observent.. really funny when the penny dropped... I had to think for a few seconds.. Thank you for that... . I did not even think about it.. I guess I must be getting tried.. hard day with my students.. Not to worry... I have updated that now Andrew..

D..

This is what I was refering to...

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:27 am

yes Andrew... I just uploaded it...I almost forgot how to make it work.. silly me.. I uploaded it into the graphic folder and wondered why it wasn't working.. then it dawned on me that this graphic is not in the graphics folder... Silly me... I must be really tired.. I also put a couple of slits in the end where the thumb images disappear into.. not sure if I like it or not but I will see if I can improve on it...

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/interactive/3/TESTHOT.html

Thank you for sending me this info.. and for your kind comments... You can have the script if you want it.... but its really complicated.. Perhaps wait until I get it perfect...

D...

Last edited by Destiny on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:38 am

Looking at it I think the slits are ok, they have grown on me.. perhaps a deeper shadow might work better though.. What I am trying to achieve is to create a theme/style of my own... Something that is recognised as being made by me... But I will not be happy unless it looks high quality.... I hate tacky graphics.. I sometime however just put a temp graphic up just to test if it works....

D

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:32 am

I think you will like this one Andrew.. and even Klaus might too... I have my candle flame up and firing as real as it gets... Including blueish tint, red glow on end of wick etc.. Now all i have to do is create is a better looking candle some flicker and ambiance around it.. To provide even more realism to the candle...

D..

Last edited by Destiny on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:40 am

Candle

I guess now I have tried to make a realistic candle, I have learnt that I have to create all the graphics surrounding the light to add ambiance and flicker within that scene to all items.. Perhaps even a touch of smoke.. just a trace of it for added realism.. Its impossible to make it look really real by just by adding a candle to what is in effect a 2D image... Learn by trial and error and mistakes made I guess...

D....

Last edited by Destiny on Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:26 am

My candle looks more real now with some flicker and glow added.. It was not easy since the pano will not allow all types of AS2 to work... really strange but interesting at the same time... Not sure why.... I do not know enough about AS3 to try that... I guess I can take this information and use it in other effects.... I think I will leave my candle now and move onto my real looking clouds flowing past in the bathroom window... the crazy girl I am..

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/interactive/3/TESTHOT.html

D...

Last edited by Destiny on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Destiny]

by Destiny » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:21 pm

Well boys that's my window with animated clouds done and working.... Is quite subtle to make it as real as I can get it.... I should have put a lens flare on this area too, perhaps I will do this.... Its only 37kb since the animated clouds are based on action script... Not sure if it was worth the effort or not...

You will need to look out through the window for a few moments to see the clouds pass by... Not that you will want to do that...

D...

Last edited by Destiny on Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.