APP_APG 2.5.0 RC2 MacOS10.6.6 // makes 2 groups instead of one  

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LJADC
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APP_APG 2.5.0 RC2 MacOS10.6.6 // makes 2 groups instead of one

by LJADC » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:41 am

Hello Forum.

I would like to make a panorama with 29 images. These images are all RGB tiff files in one Folder on the Harddisk.

However, both APP and APG do not make one group of those images but two and off course I've checked "force every image to be in the panorama".

Any idea what I might do wrong?

Thanks for your response.

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Bert



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mediavets
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by mediavets » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:11 am

These images were shot handheld?

It appears that perhaps they were not all shot from the same position?
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by LJADC » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:38 pm

No, not handheld; the camera was on a tripod with ballhead [but not aligned exactly; that is why the first example screenshot slopes upwards];

first series taken from left to right,
second series with a slightly tilted upwards lens - from the same position - from left to right

that should work, wouldn't it?
Last edited by LJADC on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mediavets
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by mediavets » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:58 pm

If not already set to High - try changing Detection quality settings to High.

You might also try stitching JPEGs rather than TIFFs.

Did you try rendering the two panos and then trying to stitch those pano images?


Last edited by mediavets on Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by hermer-blr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:07 pm

Sorry, but what is this suggestion of stitching jpeg rather than tiff.

jpeg has o tbe the very last step in the image processing chain in order to avoid losing information
Nikon D5100 (formerly Nikon D60) - Sigma 10-20 - 24 shots Panoramas in 3 raws
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by mediavets » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:17 pm

hermer-blr wrote:Sorry, but what is this suggestion of stitching jpeg rather than tiff.

jpeg has to be the very last step in the image processing chain in order to avoid losing information

I seem to recall Hans Nyberg - on panoguide.com - suggesting that one could sometimes get better auto CP detection (admittedly using PTGui and not APP/APG) if using properly processed JPEGs, rather than RAW or TIFF, especially if corrected properly for chromatic aberation.

Of course my memory may be unreliable.

But in any case this particular pano doesn't look as it it is/was worth spending too much time on. Had it been then it would have been better to have shot it properly in the first place, without so much overlap and not using full auto (and preferably with a calibrated pano head).

I was merely suggesting possible options for salvaging something from this less than ideal image set.
Last edited by mediavets on Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:48 pm

LJADC wrote:Hello Forum.

I would like to make a panorama with 29 images. These images are all RGB tiff files in one Folder on the Harddisk.

However, both APP and APG do not make one group of those images but two and off course I've checked "force every image to be in the panorama".

Any idea what I might do wrong?
t

Soemetimes changing detection quality helps - try all three settings! You also should try "multiple viewpoints" - that´s for handhelds resp. not proper aligned setups . . like yours ;):cool:

Definitel wrong is to shoot using a non-NPP head.

best, Klaus
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by hermer-blr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:48 pm

Thanks for this reply that makes sense.

However, you can also work with tiff that may have had such corrections. As for me, I shoot raw files that I convert to tiff with Nikon Capture. In the raw to tiff conversion process, I apply a minimum set of corrections to the images (typically white balance, exposure and, if required, noise) and, obviously, the same corrections to all the images of the pano. Systematically also, I apply a filter to improve image sharpness (bearing in mind that the pano generated by autopano will be undersampled wrt the original images).
Nikon D5100 (formerly Nikon D60) - Sigma 10-20 - 24 shots Panoramas in 3 raws
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by LJADC » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:44 pm

Thank you all for your quick response and valuable input.

Yes, Andrew, I should work with a proper Pano head, I know.
If you suggest:
..."But in any case this particular pano doesn't look as it it is/was worth spending too much time on" ... luckily that is for me to decide.

Yes, Klaus, I've tried your suggestion to use all three settings and Multiple Viewpoints [available in APG but not in APP] but with all three settings still 2 groups of images are detected.

Yes, Andrew, I've stitched the two separate files into one with APG and they blended fine.
So with this workaround I can still move on. But again, next time I will use a Pano Head. I am sure there are other treads about this subject on the forum.

Thanks again.

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:15 pm

LJADC wrote:Yes, Andrew, I've stitched the two separate files into one with APG and they blended fine.

Glad you were able to find a workaround. I'm a bit surprised it worked.
But again, next time I will use a Pano Head.

I don't think not using a pano head was the issue with these images; because there doesn't appear to be much too close to the camera.

I think that shooting on auto exposure, and resulting apparent underexposure of much of each image (from what little I can see from the screenshot), plus too much overlap in the area of the sky with moving clouds, was perhaps more likely to be the reason APP wouldn't treat all the images as one pano. But without having access to the images it's hard to know.

I'd like to be able to try and stitch these images myself. Any chance of a set of JPEGs - not too large - to have a go at it?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by LJADC » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:17 am

Andrew, thank you so much for your offer to try and stitch the images yourself.

But from this morning...the issue is SOLVED!

Yesterday evening, I've tried your suggestion of stitching JPEG's instead of Tiff's. That did not work; again two separate detection folders in APG instead of one...

The solution is rather obvious...
This morning I noticed that GROUP CREATION CRITERIA, on the first popup screen op APG, was set on 20 images. I've changed it into 30 images and YES! Now APG detects all 29 images in one folder and blends them extremely nice into one panorama. And look at the Global RMS of 1.86, to me that is a superb achievement.

Thank you Kolor Team for a great program, and thank you Forum for being there!

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Bert


Last edited by LJADC on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mediavets
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by mediavets » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 am

LJADC wrote:The solution is rather obvious...
This morning I noticed that GROUP CREATION CRITERIA, on the first popup screen op APG, was set on 20 images. I've changed it into 30 images and YES! Now APG detects all 29 images in one folder and blends them extremely nice into one panorama. And look at the Global RMS of 1.86, to me that is a superb achievement.

Thank you Kolor Team for a great program, and thank you Forum for being there!

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Bert

Ah...glad you found the solution.

I'm sorry I didn't think of that but then I never use Browse Folder to create groups. Instead I always manually add/select images to create a group.
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by [bo] » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:36 am

Yep, me too! The "Browse Folder" is too complicated and unpredictable for me and I always select the pano groups manually anyway!
Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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by AlexandreJ » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:24 pm

'[bo wrote:']Yep, me too! The "Browse Folder" is too complicated and unpredictable for me and I always select the pano groups manually anyway!

Really ? I found that feature the best idea I ever had :(

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by [bo] » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:44 pm

It certainly works for some workflows - I've seen reports by plenty of users here. However, the material I get is not really "standard issue".

It is shot by a landscape photographer that combines the several day on-foot trips he takes with shooting. It mixes many single shots and many panoramas, each of them handheld and of 2-8 shots. There's no discerning pattern, sometimes there's less than 30 sec pause between a single shot and a pano of the same scenery, but zoomed in, etc. Also, most of the times there are 2-4 shots for each of the panorama "positions" and I have to manually select the one with the best focus or detail.

In the past, I've spent many hours trying to make it work with the "Browse Folder" tool. When one does not know what kind of panoramas could be in a folder, it's not easy to select exact settings in that dialog box. In the end I gave up and continued to select each pano by hand.

What's more, the material is RAW files that I process in Lightroom. So really there's no incentive to just export thousands of photos just to wait for APP to find panoramas, when I can easily mark the needed panos in LR and export just a handful of TIFF files.

Still, there's a great usage for the "Browse Folder" - recently I fed it a folder with holiday photos from my brother and it found 4 panoramas he didn't knew he took!
Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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by hankkarl » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:10 pm

'[bo wrote:']Still, there's a great usage for the "Browse Folder" - recently I fed it a folder with holiday photos from my brother and it found 4 panoramas he didn't knew he took!

Just run the whole thing through APP--you may find panos with shots taken at different times of the day :)


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