Autopano strikes again: 26 Gigapixelpano pf Dresden  

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Autopano strikes again: 26 Gigapixelpano pf Dresden

by geko5766 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:37 am

http://www.gigapixel-dresden.de

Hello everybody and a happy new year !!
Just found this: The largest pgoto for now: A26 GPix of Dresden. As you may see in the documentation video, it was stitched with Autopano (what else).

Once more: A prroof for the craftsmanship of the KOlor-Team. Congrats to the Pano Team from Dresden and the Kolor STaff for their Software.

Keep on, making it better ;-))


Best regards
Georg


Last edited by geko5766 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Paul » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:41 am

and for sure the world largest blue screen: round about 13 gigapixel
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by geko5766 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:35 am

Paul wrote:and for sure the world largest blue screen: round about 13 gigapixel

Ja,

leider auch wahr... aber ein schà¶ner Blu-Screen ;-))

(yes, true,.... but a nice-one)


LG
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by taf » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:57 am

Paul wrote:and for sure the world largest blue screen: round about 13 gigapixel

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
why such large panos are alway on a boring view ???
Look. There's a rhythmic ceremonial ritual coming up !

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by klausesser » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 pm

taf wrote:why such large panos are alway on a boring view ???

A very good - and important - question i mean!
I guess they´re mostly made by technichians - rarely by photographers . . . :P:cool:
What´s the sense in it seen from an aesthetical view of a photographer?
Lots of informations - no question about that.

"The bigger the better"? Or more likely "The bigger the bigger"? It´s done because it´s doable.

It really has some kind of fascination from a voyeur´s perspective and meets a human need to satisfy curiosity of course . . . ;)
And it´s technically impressing. Interesting photography? No.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Paul » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:17 pm

klausesser wrote:"The bigger the better"? Or more likely "The bigger the bigger"?

the bigger the boys the bigger the toys :rolleyes::cool:
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by klausesser » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:18 pm

Paul wrote:
klausesser wrote:"The bigger the better"? Or more likely "The bigger the bigger"?

the bigger the boys the bigger the toys :rolleyes::cool:

You made my day, man . . :cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by HolgerS » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:43 pm

Ich habe einige Fragen im dforum dazu beantwortet: http://www.dforum.net/showthread.php?t=565976&page=3

Viele GrüàŸe vom Techniker an die Fotografen ;)
Holger Schulze

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by klausesser » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:13 pm

HolgerS wrote:Ich habe einige Fragen im dforum dazu beantwortet: http://www.dforum.net/showthread.php?t=565976&page=3

Viele GrüàŸe vom Techniker an die Fotografen ;)
Holger Schulze

Tag Holger!

ich hab mir das durchgelesen: verstehe.

"Die Fotografie hat viel mit Mathematik und Physik zu tun, obwohl gute Mathematiker oder Physiker nicht apriori gute Fotogafen sein müssen. Hier trifft sich aber nach meiner Meinung hohe Rationalità¤t mit irrationaler Emotionalità¤t. Ein antagonistischer Widerspruch, der das Gebiet der Fotografie so spannend macht."

Das ist unbedingt ein wahres Wort! :cool: . . . . geh mal ins GroàŸbildforum . . . :rolleyes::cool:
http://www.grossformatfotografie.de/index.php

herzlichen GruàŸ, Klaus
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by tived » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:47 am

I find a there is quite a few of the pano photography here to be rather boring in a photographic sense. There are also some that blows me away.

Despite pano-graphy has been around almost as long as photography itself, digital stitching is still in its infancy...but growing awfully fast :-) Thanks to software developers and the people who pushes the boundaries in this field.

Photography as art - as in Henri Bresson Cartier - capturing the elusive moment, well that just doesn't happen in pano-photography. Pano photography is as much if not more the technical photographer and brings you closer to the old large format photographers, who had to spend considerable time setting up their equipment, though its probably still easier to carry you pano gear up the mountain then the good old 20x24 wooden camera and all the plates.

However we are making pano-graphy more challenging such as the giga-pixel images, and at this stage in the development of pano-graphy it is a very time consuming process, but also very rewarding when succeeding.

However it still amazes me to see the large number of mid-day pano's here - sun up high in the sky and almost not a cloud in sight. NO shadows to speak off. No drama, no story and NO art. Just a recording of time.

Its the shadows and the light that makes the images outstanding, that adds drama and you can begin to create a story. Or in HDR Pano, is the fact that we can see some details in the extreme end of the visual spectrum when done correctly, its a helping hand, though a much more complicated process.

We use robots to do the foot work now, but we need to take the boundaries that we know of now, to a new place and add the art of photography into this mix. It is exciting times.

Adding the art is the challenge, once you have mastered the technical aspect of this craft.

What also makes this so interesting is that it is constantly evolving, we see people here doing pano's under water, in the air parachuting, giga-pixels from roof tops and mountains etc... it is certainly exciting times.

Just remember to enjoy it! You are only as good as your last pano! I still got lots to learn :-)

Henrik
A Dane Down Under

PS: Sorry if I went off topic - the pano is a great effort, as a large scale image. The art is in the mastering of the technique, the details, but the image itself is to me rather boring. Do this as the storm approaches and the sky is in rage and you could find yourself with a master piece :-)
Last edited by tived on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by geko5766 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:39 am

HolgerS wrote:Ich habe einige Fragen im dforum dazu beantwortet: http://www.dforum.net/showthread.php?t=565976&page=3

Viele GrüàŸe vom Techniker an die Fotografen ;)
Holger Schulze

Lieber Holger,

habe dein Ausführungen auch gelesen. Der SPagat ist euch gut gelungen, auch wenn viel Blau im Bild ist.
Technisch gesehen: Hut ab.... !!! Un auàŸerdem: Dresden hat auch andere schà¶ne Blickwinkel mit viel Sehenswürdigkeiten, kann ich von meinem Kurztrip vom Herbst letzten Jahres sagen.

Und wenn es mal was anderes sein soll, ist Leipzig ja auch nicht soweit weg. Das Và¶lkerschlachtdenkmal vom MDR -Turm aus hat auch was ;-)) Nicht jeder hat halt einen Yosemite-Nationalpark in Reichweite.....


LG aus Trier
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by geko5766 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:47 am

tived wrote:I find a there is quite a few of the pano photography here to be rather boring in a photographic sense. There are also some that blows me away.

........Adding the art is the challenge, once you have mastered the technical aspect of this craft.

What also makes this so interesting is that it is constantly evolving, we see people here doing pano's under water, in the air parachuting, giga-pixels from roof tops and mountains etc... it is certainly exciting times.

Just remember to enjoy it! You are only as good as your last pano! I still got lots to learn :-)

Henrik
A Dane Down Under

PS: Sorry if I went off topic - the pano is a great effort, as a large scale image. The art is in the mastering of the technique, the details, but the image itself is to me rather boring. Do this as the storm approaches and the sky is in rage and you could find yourself with a master piece :-)

Hallo Henrik ;-)

Good Words from a Danish Man !!!!

YOu are so right. We all have to learn still much and we stand at the brink of exciting times. Let us hope, that our dear friends from Kolor will hold up in speed of our wishes and will develop their product further to our needs and wishes ... but I am confident, that this will happen !!!!!!

Med venlig hilsen

Georg
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by [bo] » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:54 am

tived wrote:Adding the art is the challenge, once you have mastered the technical aspect of this craft.

Hear, hear!
Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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by GURL » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:27 am

taf wrote:why such large panos are alway on a boring view ???

:( Only few peoples are able to select well lighted, interesting and beautiful subjects + only few peoples are able to stitch gigapixel panos = many gigapixel panos are boring!

:) But many =/= all : that a small number of large panos are or aren't interesting and/or beautiful does matter a lot : this would correspond to the difference between a dead end and a promising way nobody followed yet until the most interesting places were reached.

As a rule when new technical possibilities arise it takes many years before they are used in a really convincing way. This is difficult to point out afterwards because, though they were ignored when they began, the best among the pioneers are often famous afterwards... Most early color photographs were just ugly images of uninteresting subjects so that most of the best photographers avoided to use color until recent years. The small number of them who were interested and learned to make good use of color in its early appearances are now well known and their best works are hanged in museums with great expenses. About a century was needed for that (the first known permanent color photograph was taken by James Clerk Maxwell in 1861 but a century latter, in 1961, collectors and museum where not interested in color photography.)

Like color, gigapixel panos seem difficult to master. The "Guinness syndrome" is resulting in large surface of blue sky (where overlap regions count for more megapixels?)

Moreover, viewers have still to learn how one should look at them :P
Georges

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by mediavets » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 am

GURL wrote:The "Guinness syndrome"

?????????
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by [bo] » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:09 pm

I think what Georges means is that many people create gigapanos with plenty of sky in them in order to create "the largest" image. So a 20GP panorama with 50% sky is much "simpler" in terms of shooting and stitching as the sky is "empty" pixels, as opposed to 10GP panorama with no sky at all.
Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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by JohnM » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:20 pm

Just adding some thougts to the discusion:

Actually I find it uninspiring to use time and effort to shoot hires sky, if theres no story in it like birds, planes, clouds etc and I`m thinking about shooting sky medium res since theres no point in zooming into details.

I hope we soon will se better viewers that lets use use sparse images ( deep Zoom termiology ) to have more resolution in the interesting areas and less in the dull areas. Then it would be possible to shoot a 50 mm pano of the whole scene and then use the 300 and 500 mm lenses on the interesting stuff. It would also be possible to revisit a scene and shoot extra tele shots of details and then add that detail at the proper place in the image pyramide ( semantic zooming )

I also think its wrong to compare the new gigapixel zoomable images with traditional images. Its not. Its more an image application and should be authored and treated artistically as an image application.

The size of the image is irrelevant to me, its how it may be used, and then scripting, authoring and image depth becomes essential. KrPano as a gigapixel image viewer has a lot of potential but there are not yet made any really inspiring cases imo, the potential for interaction and scripting is not utilized, and were only scratching the surface when it comes to how to use gigapixel images.

Are any of you aware of any really great scripted zoomable images regardless of viewer technology ?

Edit: Added a thread at KrPano forum too: http://www.krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=10623#post10623
Last edited by JohnM on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:27 pm

JohnM wrote:I hope we soon will se better viewers that lets use use sparse images ( deep Zoom termiology ) to have more resolution in the interesting areas and less in the dull areas. Then it would be possible to shoot a 50 mm pano of the whole scene and then use the 300 and 500 mm lenses on the interesting stuff. It would also be possible to revisit a scene and shoot extra tele shots of details and then add that detail at the proper place in the image pyramide ( semantic zooming )

This has been done already.

Here's an example - not mine - which has more zoomable detail in some areas than others:
http://dorin.europhoto.ro/dxn_pano/PtaVictoriei/pano.html


I also think its wrong to compare the new gigapixel zoomable images with traditional images. Its not. Its more an image application and should be authored and treated artistically as an image application.

The size of the image is irrelevant to me, its how it may be used, and then scripting, authoring and image depth becomes essential. KrPano as a gigapixel image viewer has a lot of potential but there are not yet made any really inspiring cases imo, the potential for interaction and scripting is not utilized, and were only scratching the surface when it comes to how to use gigapixel images.

I think you are describing a a zooming panning automated 'tour' of a gigapixel pano image? Yes, that would be great if there was a simpe, tool to author such 'tours'.

Are any of you aware of any really great scripted zoomable images regardless of viewer technology ?

I've not seen any. Nearest somewhat similar idea is the snapshot feature of gigapan.org which I think is quite innovative and effective.
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by odyssey » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:56 pm

I have made a few really interesting Gigapixel panoramas (and many boring ones). It certainly is a learning process and few subjects seem deserving of being captured in enormous resolution just for the sake of resolution.

The challenge is that a 'photographer' captures a slice of a precisely interesting moment of a 'scene', so it has the potential of being very visually stunning and/or interesting, whereas a 'gigapanographer' has to capture the entire scene in one long, randomly timed go and can't necessarily zoom in on when and where the action is happening. Leaving it up to the user of the image to find meaning and reason for viewing it. It can become just a circus distraction if they don't know the 'why' they are viewing a scene. Its almost like, 'this is what it would look like if you were here with some binoculars'. There is detail, but no action or focused story.

Here are some Gigapixel images with 'action' and a 'storyline', but I certainly had to use the hardware and software in ways that stretched the limits.

[uli]2.5 Gigapixel image that at first appearance is just a mountain but in fact it has the whole story of a daredevils flight http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/20638/[/uli]
[uli] .2 gigapixels but tells the story of ice climbers well http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/18003/[/uli]
[uli] Shawn White winning gold in the halfpipe http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/15884/[/uli]
[uli]A 2.0 gigapixel image of a beach scene that actually captures the space shuttle launching in the background. http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/5888/[/uli]

In all of these action panoramas I used the 'robot' to capture the background scene, but then filled in (or filled in at first) the 'Action' of the scene and added it to the overall image through very laborious blending.

I have often thought that if the 'robot' could go into a free-movement mode, but still record precisely where the image is taken (yaw, pitch, roll, zoom - like Papywizard records) and then if Autopano would hard-place those 'Action' images into the scene using the yaw, pitch, roll data, we could have much more 'interesting' gigapixel images as we could easily go back and add the action to a scene.

The sparse image concept for sky is so badly needed as its just water vapor, who needs it in 13 gigapixels, if the sky could be captured with a few images instead of thousands then the need for the high afternoon sun and cloudless sky could be alleviated.

Sometimes a huge gigapixel image with no action can be interesting too,
[uli]1.5 gigapixel image that has no 'story' but definitely seems justifiable to be in such large resolution http://www.odyex.com/20100flat[/uli]

Cheers,

Jason
Last edited by odyssey on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Two Panasonic FZ50's mounted in Stereo 3D on some interesting Gigapan stuff
[url=http://www.3dpan.org]www.3dpan.org Three Dimensional Panoramas![/url]
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by taf » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:40 pm

You can have some great gigapixel panos :
Here a marvelous example (360°) : http://www.360pano.de/giga/kirche/index.html

having lots of details on a blue sky (50% of the pano), I don't think it's very interesting...

You can take sky for a giant pano ;) but not a blue one : http://www.autopano.net/blog-fr/category/cat-applications/
Look. There's a rhythmic ceremonial ritual coming up !

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by 360pano » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:00 pm


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by klausesser » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 pm


Yep! Outstanding quality in sharpness/resolution.

As it is with your church-pano - great!

best, Klaus
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by JohnM » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:30 pm

Sure some great work posted here.

Regarding sparse images, I`m talking about more resolution in some areas not less in some. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc645077%28VS.95%29.aspx#Sparse_Images

I believe the great example made by Dorin Godja is an image stitched with both hi and low resolution images, but there isnt any parts with more detail than the main parts of the panorama, is there ?

http://dorin.europhoto.ro/dxn_pano/PtaVictoriei/pano.tiles/l5_d_07_24.jpg


Anyways it works great as Dorin does it and I`ll lern from his example and start to shoot ground and sky with less resolution, which means I may have time to focus more on the interesting parts, both while shooting and stitching/editing.
Last edited by JohnM on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by JohnM » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:43 pm

klausesser wrote:

Yep! Outstanding quality in sharpness/resolution.

As it is with your church-pano - great!

best, Klaus

Yes, Julians church panos are one of the top images I`ve seen, and it is scripted to make the experience more immersive. The subtle zoom to mouse effect when scrolling and the hotspot information which seems to be work in progress ( only some with information )

http://photoartkalmar.com/Photoart%20Kalmar%20high%20res/Gigapixel/Peterskirche%20VR/Peterskirche.html

Imagine if this great panorama could use sparse images too, then Julian could revisit the loction and add close-up perspective corrected hires images of the artwork too, which would make the image even better.

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by pns » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:56 pm

Paul wrote:and for sure the world largest blue screen: round about 13 gigapixel

allow me to add my 2 cents...

when i made my own first large (at the time they seemed so, anyway) panoramas, i included very little sky, exactly because it seemed unimportant and uninteresting. as soon as i previewed the panoramas, i regretted that, however, as the images were clearly out of balance. something i would never have done were they single shots. after that i try to include more sky, even if it is not interesting in and of itself. i'm guessing you (and others here) would have fun accusing me of just inflating the pixel count, but you would be oh so wrong!

it's curious that often those who criticize panos for being artistically poor, are the same ones who criticize them when they try to be more balanced.

you can't please everyone, and i don't try. but sky in panoramas is not always just to satisfy the guinness crowd. in a nutshell, i guess that's what i'm saying. hopefully, you'll see my point.

cheers,
pns

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