It's here..It's here

[tarnis]

by tarnis » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:45 pm

Sent it to him in email, was kind of long to post here. Don't think he saw anything. The log stops when the head freezes.

Was trying to run papywizard in ubuntu, but can't seem to get it to connect. It does recognize the adapter but I don't know if I need to do something special somewhere to assign the com ports? Says can't pan head in axis one and then goes back to simulation mode.

[tarnis]

by tarnis » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:13 pm

Posted it in another thread, thought I'd mention here it definately seems to be the parallax board. I bought the USB cable Hillell was using and everything ran fine, even did a 1,000 image pano no problems(other than the stitching part ). So sending my board back today and see what happens. Looks like my new issue is battery life, don't have enough of it to pause when a cloud goes over head. 6cell battery netbook here I come.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:24 pm

Looks like my new issue is battery life, don't have enough of it to pause when a cloud goes over head. 6cell battery netbook here I come.

With which device are you having problems with battery life?

Last edited by mediavets on Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tarnis]

by tarnis » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:20 pm

The laptop...either need a laptop with better battery life or schlep a generator as well I knew I'd have this problem, Laptop was bought for its 3D performance not what I'm trying to do with it now. It's heavy to carry with everything else anyways.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:44 pm

The laptop...either need a laptop with better battery life or schlep a generator as well I knew I'd have this problem, Laptop was bought for its 3D performance not what I'm trying to do with it now. It's heavy to carry with everything else anyways.

Well if you get the Bluetooth working you could leave the laptop at home and instead run Papywizard on a Nokia Tablet which you can put in your pocket - a used N800 can be picked up quite cheaply (at least in the UK it can).

Last edited by mediavets on Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[claudevh]

by claudevh » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:56 pm

Hi Matt,

Happy that you have a "alternative" solution !

As I have mentionned earlier, it seems that the Parallax module is faulty and I am affraid that this is not only yours but also "Joelb" have a similar problem !

I hope that this will stop here !

[bigwade]

by bigwade » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi Claude,
Is this worth all the frustration, testing and cable making ? (+ a box)
For some extra euro's you have a nice boxed Ursarminor BT from Teleskop Austria.
(I can confirm it works out of the box with a N770 and N810)
They have a PP account right now and I think there was some negotiating about a lower price for APP forum members but I'm not sure about the status of that.
These BT problems shouldn't frustrate new Merlin/Orion users

http://www.autopano.net/forum/t5458-alternative-bluetooth-serial-adapter
#15

[claudevh]

by claudevh » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:36 pm

Hi Frank,
(I suppose that your link was the next one ...http://www.autopano.net/forum/p40618-2009-03-11-19-56-59#p40618 The link of a post is upper left date ...)

Your analyse is correct !

But actually

- the Ursa Minor BT solution is more than expensive !:(
- it was not possible to pay via Paypal till now (thank's to you, allready corrected )
- the site is nearly 100 % in German or Hugarian or ... not in English and not in French ...
- we don't know how is it working for the Worldwide delivery
- we don't know the technology used (BT class 1 or 2) and this is mandatory for some of the users

With all respect to Teleskop Austria (I am one of their customer since years and I was the first to introduce them for the good price they make for the Merlin), I regret really that they don't yet understand what will be the "added value" for them and our members to propose kits ready to use like variants:

1. Merlin Head: 3 variants, One could be Merlin only, the second Merlin with the normal tripod, Merlin with the table tripod.
2. Ursa Minor: with 2 variants , one could be the "direct cable connection", the other the BT Module
3. The replacement Crown.
4. A adapted transport box including all that stuff + Camera, optics + Nokia or Netbook.

This "flexible kit" will have the additional advantage to cut the shipping costs !

And that all with interesting pricing in function of the content of the kit ...
I am sure that they will strongly increase their sales and this will be all benefits for all the members of the forum who will be happy to get good prices and all from one supplier ...

Frank, considering that you have good contacts with them, could you made a temptative approach to them?

P.S. I am still busy to experiment alternatives and the results are open to all members of this forum.
On basis of that, we are providing only recommandations and the final choice is free to each member ...

Last edited by claudevh on Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bigwade]

by bigwade » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:49 am

Hi Frank,
(I suppose that your link was the next one ...http://www.autopano.net/forum/p40618-2009-03-11-19-56-59#p40618 The link of a post is upper left date ...)

Ah, Thank YOU, now I understand....

- the Ursa Minor BT solution is more than expensive !:(

Do you think so ?
90$ for a parallax board without cable and box isn't cheap either..

- it was not possible to pay via Paypal till now (thank's to you, allready corrected )
- the site is nearly 100 % in German or Hugarian or ... not in English and not in French ...

The BT info is in English.
They understand mail in English perfectly.

- we don't know how is it working for the Worldwide delivery

You have a point, my BT module arrived in a small normal enveloppe.
So shipment can't be that expensive.

- we don't know the technology used (BT class 1 or 2) and this is mandatory for some of the users

Is that a matter of reach of the connection ?
I can trie and post.

With all respect to Teleskop Austria (I am one of their customer since years and I was the first to introduce them for the good price they make for the Merlin), I regret really that they don't yet understand what will be the "added value" for them and our members to propose kits ready to use like variants:

1. Merlin Head: 3 variants, One could be Merlin only, the second Merlin with the normal tripod, Merlin with the table tripod.

Who needs a tripod ?
I guess most of us here are (hobby or pro) photographer.
The plus is they ship without ! tripod.

2. Ursa Minor: with 2 variants , one could be the "direct cable connection", the other the BT Module

Yep.

3. The replacement Crown.

This isn't easy.
It's discussed before.
We can't expect a system develloped by TA for a different A value.
It's a matter of numbers.
We have at least 40 Merlin user here and maybe 40 lurkers.
That makes 80 Merlin/Orion users ?
All with different camera's
Most of them have found a good solution for their own camera's like I did with my cheap wooden rails.
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p37570-2009-01-24-23-56-43#p37570 (yes I am learning..

4. A adapted transport box including all that stuff + Camera, optics + Nokia or Netbook.

Come on.......
Go to a Pro Photo shop and you can find all bags/boxes you need

This "flexible kit" will have the additional advantage to cut the shipping costs !

Yes ! but this project is still a ±DIY project.
You can't expect that TA are going to sell used N800's as well

And that all with interesting pricing in function of the content of the kit ...
I am sure that they will strongly increase their sales and this will be all benefits for all the members of the forum who will be happy to get good prices and all from one supplier ...

That would be great, but as mentioned before, the teleskop guys, from Austria or whatever, had no clue that this machine is used for other purposes.
This pano thing is a niche in a niche and that's why people like TA can't deliver a complete toolset.

Frank, considering that you have good contacts with them, could you made a temptative approach to them?

Yep I will
grtz!

Last edited by bigwade on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:54 am

Frank,

I agree with Claude.

The guys at Teleskop-Austria are not in the least pro-active.

I have spelled out the business opportunity, so have you, and yet you say they still don't 'get' it.

What is so hard to understand?

By now if they were really interested in selling their stuff to Merlin/Papywizard users they could easily have learned what the project is all about - they only have to download the free Papywizard software and hook up a Merlin head to get a feel for it - yet AFAIK they never have done so.

Likewise they could participate in this forum.

And they could create some special pages on their site for Merlin/Papywizard users that were written in a language one could understand. They have one of the worst designed web sites I've ever seen.

They seem to have the engineering capability but they have never pro-actively sought to understand the replacement crown issue.

It would not be neccessary to make a lot of crown variants with different 'A' dimensions - simply make the slimmest crown possible and leave the mounting issue up to users.

Our use of the Merlin head may be a 'niche within a niche' application of the device but let's face it the entire astroscope hobbyist market is pretty niche! It is not as if they are not familair with the concept of a niche market and niche market products - their BT-TTL module is certainly a 'niche within a niche' market product.

Last edited by mediavets on Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bigwade]

by bigwade » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:23 am

Andrew, to be hounest.
If I was in their shoes and if selling things like this
http://www.teleskop-austria.at/prod.php?tid=13&lng=de#goto-skypod-vi
is their core business, I wouldn't care that much about the 159 euro Merlin.
Even if I could sell 5-10.
What's the profit on a Merlin for that price, tell me.
What can you expect more for that amount.

But hey, I'm not Teleskop Austria and I have just invited the guys by mail to reply here.
grtz!

Last edited by bigwade on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:41 am

Andrew, to be hounest.
If I was in their shoes and if selling things like this
http://www.teleskop-austria.at/prod.php?tid=13&lng=de#goto-skypod-vi
is their core business, I wouldn't care that much about the 159 euro Merlin.

And how many of those will they sell a day/ a week/ a year?
......

The market for the BT-TTL module must be reasonable, yet having developed it, they seem to have made no effort to make the product available via retailers in other countries.

I can think of at least three astroscope retailers in the UK who could market and sell it.

There must be quite a few in North America too.

[bigwade]

by bigwade » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:20 pm

The market for the BT-TTL module must be reasonable, yet having developed it, they seem to have made no effort to make the product available via retailers in other countries.
I can think of at least three astroscope retailers in the UK who could market and sell it.
There must be quite a few in North America too.

I agree ! ship those units.........
These are other Ursaminor distributors
http://www.ursaminor.hu/contact_en.html


About the crown, TA made an offer here:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p34032-2008-12-05-12-03-09#p34032
but no one was interested, I was the only one...

Last edited by bigwade on Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:34 am

Andrew, to be hounest.
If I was in their shoes and if selling things like this
http://www.teleskop-austria.at/prod.php?tid=13&lng=de#goto-skypod-vi
is their core business, I wouldn't care that much about the 159 euro Merlin.
Even if I could sell 5-10.
What's the profit on a Merlin for that price, tell me.
What can you expect more for that amount.

But hey, I'm not Teleskop Austria and I have just invited the guys by mail to reply here.
grtz!

They don't seem to be rushing to their own defence, or to dispel my doubts, do they?

[teleskop-austria]

by teleskop-austria » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:09 pm

hello dear Autopano friends,

let me humbly apologize for being absent the last weeks, we're just in a lot of projects...

Thank you bigwade for pushing me :-) I'll answer first the general questions from your email,

1.for APP members there will be a 10% discount regarding the BT module, so you get it for €89.-
2.I regret English translation of our website is not yet planned, as the vast majority of out customers speaks
German/Hungarian/Slovenian/Romanian. Please don't hesitate to write email in any language (preferably English,
if you don't speak any of the mentioned languages) and ask any questions you need to know. Japanese
is also an option... I understand English must be done sooner or later. I will talk to Lajos to do it for Merlin and BT Interface
first.
3.shipping costs for Merlin: Austria 5.- / EU 13.- / Europe non-EU 16.- / US 22.-

Regarding the crown replacements, there doesn't seem to be much demand, since no one (except bigwade) answered my call
how many will be needed. It's always possible to send us a email containing a precise drawing for a customized part like
this, and we will produce for a reasonable price.

As all of you have unique setups, it seems not very reasonable to offer packages like in the proposal of Claude, but you can
order your Merlin anyway with or without Tripod, Table Tripod, BT Interface, or how you like it. Well, most of you avid photographers will want to use your already existing tripods, I assume.

The BT interface is BT class 1.

Dear Claude as soon as I have some free time here I will check out the Papywizard/Merlin combination, I promise.
Last month, when I was in the jungle in Panama, I just wished to be able to make such fantastic 360° panorama fotos like
I have seen on bigwades website. Thats really a thrill!

regards, Tommy

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:42 pm

Hi Tommy,

Good to hear from you again.

hello dear Autopano friends,

let me humbly apologize for being absent the last weeks, we're just in a lot of projects...}

Like holidays (again!) and house building?

1.for APP members there will be a 10% discount regarding the BT module, so you get it for €89.-

Thank you.

2.I regret English translation of our website is not yet planned, as the vast majority of our customers speaks German/Hungarian/Slovenian/Romanian. Please don't hesitate to write email in any language (preferably English, if you don't speak any of the mentioned languages) and ask any questions you need to know. Japanese is also an option... I understand English must be done sooner or later. I will talk to Lajos to do it for Merlin and BT Interface first.

Sadly the VAST majority of the world's population speaks none of those languages; and if English is not their native tongue it is frequently their second language. You seem to have hit upon a unique way of limiting your market opportunities. Could that explain why 'the vast majority of our customers speaks German/Hungarian/Slovenian/Romanian'?

3.shipping costs for Merlin: Austria 5.- / EU 13.- / Europe non-EU 16.- / US 22.-

Wow - are we talking Euros? - do you wrap it in gold foil and deliver in person by hand? Those costs are excessive IMO.

BTW your UK partner does not seem to mention this product on their web site. Now why might that be? Do they not know about it?

Regarding the crown replacements, there doesn't seem to be much demand, since no one (except bigwade) answered my call how many will be needed. It's always possible to send us a email containing a precise drawing for a customized part like this, and we will produce for a reasonable price.

There may not have seemed to be much demand back then, but times change and we have more users now. As was pointed out at the time a 'bare' crown without the required friction material on the back is an incomplete and rather unattractive proposition.

You really do not need a precise drawing - if you were to disassemble the dovetail mount/crown on a Merlin head - which I presume you have to hand - you could measure the thing yourself and propose a design solution. the goal is simple to get the maximum space/gap between the axis of horizontal rotation and the vertical arm of the mount.

The BT interface is BT class 1.

Thanks for the info - perhaps you could add that to the info on the web site?

Dear Claude as soon as I have some free time here I will check out the Papywizard/Merlin combination, I promise.

Hurrah! Have fun. It is not 'rocket science'.

Last month, when I was in the jungle in Panama

Glad you were able to make your escape.

Regards,

Last edited by mediavets on Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bigwade]

by bigwade » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:35 pm

3.shipping costs for Merlin: Austria 5.- / EU 13.- / Europe non-EU 16.- / US 22.-
Wow - are we talking Euros? - do you wrap it in gold foil and deliver in person by hand? Those costs are excessive IMO.

Andrew, it's shipping costs for the MERLIN, not the BT module.
That should be cheaper I guess.

BTW I have paid $29,57 shipment for a tiny RRS G10 bracket........
And not wrapped in gold..

But maybe Tommy can give us the shipping costs for the BT module.

Last edited by bigwade on Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[teleskop-austria]

by teleskop-austria » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:34 pm

hello Andrew,

of course you are right, an English website is something we have to work on...

But, in trade with specialized optical goods customers generally don't buy from anywhere in the world, they want to be on the safer side, if there is any problem or warranty issue to be solved on the spot. On the other side there are certain regulations concerning selling areas, e.g. Telescope Company Celestron does not allow american dealers to sell to Europe, customers are bound to buy from an european dealer. You see, things are a little different for this business if you look closer.

Shipment costs above are for Merlin, for the BT interface alone the numbers are:
Austria 5.- / EU 7.-/ Europe non-EU, rest of the planet 10.-

Please understand that we really do not make profit on the shipment charges, I think myself they are too high and the service is (sometimes) too slow.

BTW who is our UK partner??? I'd like to know them!

Concerning the crown replacement, until there is no demand there is no reason to design it. If we get orders we will produce something that is complte and working. You already know how it should be in detail, and our ingeneer needs some drawing to produce it, so we don't actually need to research it. There will be one ready soon we produce for bigwade, and we could take it as a prototype if you need more. No problem!

Tommy

Last edited by teleskop-austria on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:32 pm

"As was pointed out at the time a 'bare' crown without the required friction material on the back is an incomplete and rather unattractive proposition."

That rings a bell in my mind . .

This friction-thing weares out sooner or later (mine did it sooner . . ) - a replacement crown using a different type of friction would be preferable.
Some ideas? Does it have to be a friction anyway? THIS kind of friction seems to need moving by the remote control anyway to not wearing out soon (even my 85mm causes a slip the camera out of it´s position very easily now)
On my modified Manfrotto SPH i have a vertical arm which carries a sawtooth-disk. Another swatooth-disk is fixed to the camera-rail. Both are connected via a center-screw which is accompanied by a spring which pushes the disks apart when i loose the screw and let me free move the arm. A light turn of the screw pulls the sawteeth togehter and the camera-arm is absolutely fixed in it´s position.
I saw a mount where you can pull away the fixing-disks at it´s center-spring and let it snap back when you adjusted the camera´s home-point. After that only the motor can move the camera.
The name of the disks in german is "Rastscheiben" -
http://www.ganter-griff.de/?cmd=normblatt&guid=b9185656-6e4c-4af0-b441-cae8619bb50a&LCID=2057&pageID=35

best, Klaus

[SpeedyPan]

by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:06 pm

I think the friction disc is thought as a kind of clutch. It should avoid damage of the gear wheels in case of something is blocking the equipment.

With my new crown made of perspex/acrylics I used a thin silicone mat which I simply put between my crown and the Merlin disc. There is no need to glue it on.

I can adjust the amount of friction as I want it to be by simply screwing down the heads nut. This works perfect.

I cut these silicone discs with my Lasercutter and if someone wants to have one, please let me know.

[Paul]

by Paul » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:11 pm

SpeedyPan

please show us a picture of your crown-modding ...

[SpeedyPan]

by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:50 pm

No Problem, Paul.

It is made of 5 discs I cut from 4mm perspex. The four 5mm holes are for 5mm alloy sticks, which made it easy to glue the four discs together. The 2.5mm holes were drilled up to 3.3mm and got a M4 thread. The manfrotto rail is screwed on this threads.

I know... I could have used one 5mm disc and one 15mm disc, but 4mm perspex was all I had available

Best, Helmut

Last edited by SpeedyPan on Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:56 pm

Helmut,

That is very elegant and clever. A fine job.

The bonded layers technique with laser cut components and the aligment pegs is reminiscent of the Bophoto birch plywood pano brackets:
http://www.bophoto.com/bracket/

How robust do you think the threaded holes will be in perspex?

Last edited by mediavets on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[SpeedyPan]

by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:07 pm

Thank you, Andrew.

It works for me, but if I would have to make something that one could sell, I would design a crown that is adjustable. The "disc" solution could also be made of alloy. Some of these in different heights (maybe 2, 3 and 4mm) could be screwed together to the height one needs.

Best, Helmut

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:12 pm

No Problem, Paul.

It is made of 5 discs I cut from 4mm perspex. The four 5mm holes are for 5mm alloy sticks, which made it easy to glue the four discs together. The 2.5mm holes were drilled up to 3.3mm and got a M4 thread. The manfrotto rail is screwed on this threads.

I know... I could have used one 5mm disc and one 15mm disc, but 4mm perspex was all I had available

Best, Helmut

Helmut - that´s great!

I´d like to have that too . . - whatever the price is.
But tell me about the friction/clutch - that also sounds very fine. You adjust the friction by tightening or loosing the screws which fits your disks to the Merlin-disk? That´s great, man. It would mean to be easibly able to change the silicone-disc if it´s worn and to prevent it to get worn anyway by zeroing the camera by hand . . !

best, Klaus