[papywizard V2] Timelapse And Intervalometer

[mediavets]

[papywizard V2] Timelapse And Intervalometer

by mediavets » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:09 am

Advanced intervalometer control software for Nikon DSLRs:
http://www.oxfordeye.co.uk/timelord/timelord.aspx

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:38 am

A programmable controller and intervalometer:

http://www.bmumford.com/photo/camctlr.html

[fma38]

by fma38 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:01 pm

Very interesting links...

I would like to ear from people making timelapse, or who want to make some. What features do you need? How do you see timelapse usage on Papywizard? Any idea for the GUI?

[loddie]

by loddie » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:40 pm

Frédéric,

My interest in timelapse is what brought me to this forum as the Merlin has the potential to do both panoramic and panning timelapse. The Timelord software is interesting in that it allows for multiple exposures for HDR. Unfortunately is it only compatible with Nikon and I have invested in an Olympus SLR system.
I would like to see:

Compatibility w/all SLR brands
Capability to take multiple exposure settings
Easy to define panning path (both vertical and horizonal)
Platform independent (personally prefer Mac)
Merlin compatibility

I would be willing to pay $$$ for such software.

Here is some inspiration:

[ul]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LsSPynV4dY[/ul]

Cheers!

[fma38]

by fma38 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:19 pm

The first implementation of timelapse in Papywizard will be simple, and won't allow to make panoramic timelapse.

Do you have ideas for the GUI of the panning part? How do you want to define all positions? Do you need to shoot while moving?

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:25 pm

Frédéric,

My interest in timelapse is what brought me to this forum as the Merlin has the potential to do both panoramic and panning timelapse. The Timelord software is interesting in that it allows for multiple exposures for HDR. Unfortunately is it only compatible with Nikon and I have invested in an Olympus SLR system.
I would like to see:

Compatibility w/all SLR brands
Capability to take multiple exposure settings
Easy to define panning path (both vertical and horizonal)
Platform independent (personally prefer Mac)
Merlin compatibility

Welcome to the forum...

How do you envisage the UI for defining then panning path might look? Would you imagine it might be light drawinga curve or fitting a curve to a set of points?

Something a bit like the UI of this software?:
http://www.lqgraphics.com/software/phototomovieoverview.php

Here is some inspiration:

[ul]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LsSPynV4dY[/ul]

Cheers!

25,000 shots on a DSLR for a 3 minute movie. That's half the quoted shutter life of a low end DSLR.

Last edited by mediavets on Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:49 pm

The first implementation of timelapse in Papywizard will be simple, and won't allow to make panoramic timelapse.

Do you have ideas for the GUI of the panning part? How do you want to define all positions? Do you need to shoot while moving?

No need to shoot while moving usually - but for using a videocamera releasing while panning would be a nice option . .

Panning-speed and frequency of shots should be independantly set of course. That means every time the head stops there must be a certain number of releases possible for bracketed shots.
Defining the panning range should work like the usual defining: startpoint-endpoint, the numbers of stop/shoot points in-between defines the final panning-speed and -range. And the lenght of the movie . .

Except for setting pan-stop/shoot and go points it´s already there in PW . .

best, Klaus

P.S.:

"25,000 shots on a DSLR for a 3 minute movie. That's half the quoted shutter life of a low end DSLR."

Yes - but that´s not time-lapse. It´s slow-motion . . You definitely wouldn´t take a dslr for that . .
3min of video in normal speed means 4500 pics. (25fpsx60x3)
In time-laps you cut the numbers of fps to get the moves faster - therefore you need to shoot a lot more as 3 minutes to get 3 minutes.
Let´s say you want 3 min@25fps of time-lapse movie by shooting one picture every 2 secs - take your calculator . .

For slow-motion you have to shoot very much more than 25fps to make moves slower when playback @25fps.

Extreme slomo uses some thousands of fps . . (and needs extremely bright light . . )
They don´t use usual mechanical shutters.

Last edited by klausesser on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[loddie]

by loddie » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:20 am

MediaVets, thanks, it is great to be here. I just received a Merlin yesterday and I have to try and figure out how to set-up before a ski trip on 2/26/09. Probably won't happen but it would be great if it could.

I like the interface for the Photo to iMovie in the provided link. I will have to think about an effective interface. Some time lapse involve linear motion in addition to vertical/horizontal panning:

[url][url]http://www.trevswork.com/mo/[/url][url]Notice the frame in this image can zoom in and out of the picture:



This could be an added feature in the future if control could be provided in a method similar to this:

http://www.timescapes.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=476

I guess my "dream" time lapse system would allow for:

linear movement control
vertical panning control
horizontal panning control
aperture control
zoom control
bracketed shots at each position

But as don't even have my Merlin/PW set up yet, I am getting way ahead of myself. But goals are good to strive for:)

Several of the time lapse guys are using telescopes mounts such as:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t628836.html

[fma38]

by fma38 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:28 am

What is the difference between panning and linear move? You mean a travelling?

About zoom and aperture control, this will need to use an external software to do that. See this thread:

http://www.autopano.net/forum/t5329-papywizard-v2-tethered-shooting-and-intelligent-bracketing

What software these guys are using with the telescope mounts?

[loddie]

by loddie » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:53 am

Yes, traveling along a path. You can see it in the video link I provided.

Software isn't necessary with the telescope mounts such as the Meade DS-2114ATS-TC Tripod. The motion of the mount can be control with the tethered hand-held controller. A time lapse remote shutter release is used for camera control, such as this one (I have same one with a different termination for the Olympus E-1):
http://cgi.ebay.com/MC-O1-Timer-Remote-Shutter-For-OLYMPUS-E510-36-430_W0QQitemZ120373895557QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090205?IMSfp=TL090205151007r6426

The photos can be easily assembled with Quicktime Pro ($29 USD) into a movie format.

Yes, time lapse uses a lot of shutter actuations. However, the micro 4/3s format will allow me to use Zuiko lens on a camera body that will not have a mechanical shutter. So hopefully m4/3s will deliver increased shutter actuations.

Last edited by loddie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Paul]

by Paul » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:36 am

MC-O1 Timer Remote Shutter For OLYMPUS E510 36-430

pls fix the link in your post, it does not work

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:59 pm

Yes, traveling along a path. You can see it in the video link I provided.

Software isn't necessary with the telescope mounts such as the Meade DS-2114ATS-TC Tripod. The motion of the mount can be control with the tethered hand-held controller. A time lapse remote shutter release is used for camera control, such as this one (I have same one with a different termination for the Olympus E-1):
[url]MC-O1 Timer Remote Shutter For OLYMPUS E510 36-430[/url]

The photos can be easily assembled with Quicktime Pro ($29 USD) into a movie format.

Yes, time lapse uses a lot of shutter actuations. However, the micro 4/3s format will allow me to use Zuiko lens on a camera body that will not have a mechanical shutter. So hopefully m4/3s will deliver increased shutter actuations.

Hi loddie!

a linear move like the path you showed in your post is in my eyes better done using a video-editor in post-pro. Easy to be done and better controllable.

While shooting (!) time-lapse i can´t see a sense in it.

best, Klaus

[loddie]

by loddie » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:44 pm

Paul, thanks for catching bad link. For some reason, "preview" of posts on this forum doesn't show links. I'll have to be more careful.

Klaus, yes it could be accomplised in post-processing. However, would you have to have a much larger image to crop from. Memory can be a problem with longer time lapses.

cheers, LeRoy

[fma38]

by fma38 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:47 pm

Klaus, yes it could be accomplised in post-processing. However, would you have to have a much larger image to crop from. Memory can be a problem with longer time lapses.

And the point of view changes with a travelling; it can be important if you have a first plan very close...

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:38 pm

Klaus, yes it could be accomplised in post-processing. However, would you have to have a much larger image to crop from. Memory can be a problem with longer time lapses.

And the point of view changes with a travelling; it can be important if you have a first plan very close...

Well - establishing a path-following in PW would mean a programmable Bezier-curve option. I know it from camera-cranes: you make a move and record it in the controller - and the controller generates an editable Bezier-curve which moves are optimized/cleaned and linearized. A perfect smooth move is the result.
But i can´t imagine a reason to use that in a time-lapsed movie . . . ok: a pathed move over a building, a landscape or so . . maybe.
The charakter of a smooth move following a path occurs only in a long move - a slow and and long move . .
That means very much single frames shot in time-lapse mode . . i guess at least 5 times as much as usual.

Regarding the fact that evey frame shot with a dslr has tons of redundant resolution compared to ehat´s need for a movie in nstandard resolution i would prefer to do it in a movie/video-editor afterwards using a "rostrum camera" - famous as "Ken Burns" effect.

I guess it would be very comlicated to edit the move in PW - using editable Bezier-curves. Without editable Beziers the moves would be very un-smooth.
At least in my opinion as an ex-cameraman . .

[fma38]

by fma38 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:42 pm

Don't know if a Bezier curve is really hard to code... I have to dig a little. What about starting with straight lines? We just point the different points, and record them as a path. Then, we should be able to give some informations for each lines: time to spend from start to end, number of shots and so.

Then, if possible, this can be changed to a Bezier curve, keeping the same philosophy.

What do you think about?

[jeremyp]

by jeremyp » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:24 pm

Regarding the fact that evey frame shot with a dslr has tons of redundant resolution compared to ehat´s need for a movie in nstandard resolution i would prefer to do it in a movie/video-editor afterwards using a "rostrum camera" - famous as "Ken Burns" effect.

This only works for a certain FOV right? Or you could capture full spherical time lapse and nodal pan around that - more options in post but also a lot of extra data.

I guess it would be very comlicated to edit the move in PW - using editable Bezier-curves. Without editable Beziers the moves would be very un-smooth.

I don't think this would be that complicated to edit, a simple path at least. Does it need to be a Bezier curve?

At least in my opinion as an ex-cameraman . .

Why ex?

[jeremyp]

by jeremyp » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:27 pm

And the point of view changes with a travelling; it can be important if you have a first plan very close...

That could be quite interesting for "small" scenes. Purposely offset the nodal point to get some parallax in the move.

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:16 am

What do you think about?

Why not - do it . .

Drawing a path from point to point means a hard change of direction when you use a videocamera - and that would be a real good option: having a remote controlled and moving videocamera-head.
You can mount a 5DMkII fore example, record a full-HD movie and use the pictures for making high-rez panos very fast.

If it doesn´t mean too much effords: do it.

More important i would see multifocusing and an extended bracketing control when shooting tethered via the N800´s USB port into the camera´s USB port like Breeze does.

best, Klaus

[Paul]

by Paul » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:21 pm

a nice timelapse sample: rotating ships

http://vimeo.com/2641142

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:07 pm

a nice timelapse sample: rotating ships

http://vimeo.com/2641142

Hah! Funny!

best, Klaus

[jeremyp]

by jeremyp » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:54 pm

a nice timelapse sample: rotating ships

Tilt-shift + time lapse = miniature Sydney

http://vimeo.com/1789964

Very nice

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:55 pm

a nice timelapse sample: rotating ships

Tilt-shift + time lapse = miniature Sydney

http://vimeo.com/1789964

Very nice

GREAT!!

Also this one: http://vimeo.com/3156959

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:29 pm

I've been playing with Timelord a low cost ($20) programmable intervalometer program (Windows only) for Nikon DSLRs from OxfordEye:
http://www.oxfordeye.co.uk/timelord/timelord.aspx

The latest beta has a simple wizard to set up extended bracketing and although it is doing a few things I don't yet understand it is very promising.

The downside is that having the camera hooked up to the PC via USB and uploading shots to the PC when they are taken seems to really hammer the battery and it was exhausted quite quickly - but the real nusiance is that since battery life is so good when using the camera conventionally I have only charged the battery twice since I 've had the camera and now I can't find the battery charger (serves me right for being so disorganised I guess ).

The new NKremote from Breeze Systems will do much more but it only works with a few higher end Nikon DSLRs and is very much more expensive.

Last edited by mediavets on Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[klausesser]

by klausesser » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:47 pm

"I have only charge the battery twice since I 've had the camera and now I can't find the battery charger"

On yes, oh yes - that sounds very familiar to me . . . :cool:

best and good luck for finding your charger, Klaus