[Papywizard] Simple timer/intervalometer  

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mediavets
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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:22 am

Initial thoughts are that Pause (and of course by implication also Rewind/Forward) should be diisabled in this case.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:52 am

Did anyone (else) spot an obvious (well it is to me now) 'issue' with Intervalometer or Timer initiated shooting of panos yet?

Hint: you might not want to use the same exposure settings at different times of day.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:37 pm

mediavets wrote:Hint: you might not want to use the same exposure settings at different times of day.

Well, Papywizard can't *set* the exposure settings; it just need what *is* the exposure setting. So, in such case, just give the higher value the panos will use...

About pause button, I think I will let it active; it is up to the user to know what it does. And rewind/forward could be interesting. But in most cases, there will be nobody behind Papywizard to do anything; this is the goal of such feature ;)

I'll release a dev. version with the timer/intervalometer first draft tonight.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by Paul » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:10 pm

fma38 wrote:I'll release a dev. version with the timer/intervalometer first draft tonight.

Frederic, where did you buy your seven-league boots? ;)
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by fma38 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:23 pm

:lol:
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:36 pm

fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:Hint: you might not want to use the same exposure settings at different tim]es of day.

Well, Papywizard can't *set* the exposure settings; it just need what *is* the exposure setting. So, in such case, just give the higher value the panos will use...

Yes, but that wasn't my point. It is conventional 'wisdom' that you should use a fixed manual exposure for all shots in a pano. Typically Intervalometer/Timer initiated panos shoots are essentially unattended (or at least not actively monitored) in which case the shooting of repeated panos over time will mean that for some of the panos the exposure set initially (on the camera) will be good, but for later panos it may not be. So the user may need/wish to go in and change settings on the camera (and possibly also in Papywizard) between repititons of panos being shot under the control of the Intervalometer/Timer functions. Which sort of undermines the concept a bit.

If the user chose to, will the Timer/Intervalometer functions allow the user to go in and change camera related settings in Papywizard (and of course camera settings on the camera) in the intervals between repetitions? I guess this could be possible if/when we have access to Configure tabs from icons in the Shooting dialogue GUI?

fma38 wrote:About pause button, I think I will let it active; it is up to the user to know what it does. And rewind/forward could be interesting. But in most cases, there will be nobody behind Papywizard to do anything; this is the goal of such feature ;)

Quite so - seems OK to me.

fma38 wrote:I'll release a dev. version with the timer/intervalometer first draft tonight.

Wow - that was quick.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:47 pm

mediavets wrote:Yes, but that wasn't my point. It is conventional 'wisdom' that you should use a fixed manual exposure for all shots in a pano. Typically Intervalometer/Timer initiated panos shoots are essentially unattended (or at least not actively monitored) in which case the shooting of repeated panos over time will mean that for some of the panos the exposure set initially (on the camera) will be good, but for later panos it may not be. So the user may need/wish to go in and change settings on the camera (and possibly also in Papywizard) between repititons of panos being shot under the control of the Intervalometer/Timer functions. Which sort of undermines the concept a bit.

Well, first, with APP, you don't need to set the exposure to manual mode ;) And even if you do so, it is possible to change the camera settings without the need to change anything in Papywizard; as I said, just use the longer exposure value to ensure that the head won't restart before the longest shot is taken.

If the user chose to, will the Timer/Intervalometer functions allow the user to go in and change camera related settings in Papywizard (and of course camera settings on the camera) in the intervals between repetitions? I guess this could be possible if/when we have access to Configure tabs from icons in the Shooting dialogue GUI?

It is not that simple, as these values are written in the data file. So, changing them will turns the file inconsistent...

The incoming release allows to open the configuration dialog from shooting dialog, and automatically switch to timer or data tab. I didn't find yet a way to invalidate other tabs. So, it is possible to modify anything - even the focal lens, but nothing will be recomputed. So it may lead to errors. I need to correct that.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:05 pm

fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:If the user chose to, will the Timer/Intervalometer functions allow the user to go in and change camera related settings in Papywizard (and of course camera settings on the camera) in the intervals between repetitions? I guess this could be possible if/when we have access to Configure tabs from icons in the Shooting dialogue GUI?

It is not that simple, as these values are written in the data file. So, changing them will turns the file inconsistent...

Oh - do you mean that there will be only one data file for all the panos shot in a series initiated with the Intervalometer? I had envisaged that there would be a separate data file for each pano in a series?

fma38 wrote:The incoming release allows to open the configuration dialog from shooting dialog, and automatically switch to timer or data tab. I didn't find yet a way to invalidate other tabs. So, it is possible to modify anything - even the focal lens, but nothing will be recomputed. So it may lead to errors. I need to correct that.

OK.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:25 pm

mediavets wrote:
fma38 wrote:It is not that simple, as these values are written in the data file. So, changing them will turns the file inconsistent...

Oh - do you mean that there will be only one data file for all the panos shot in a series initiated with the Intervalometer? I had envisaged that there would be a separate data file for each pano in a series?

You're right, this is how it should work! But I need to review my code, as for now, it does not generate one data file per pano :( I totally forgot that point.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:36 pm

fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:
fma38 wrote:It is not that simple, as these values are written in the data file. So, changing them will turns the file inconsistent...

Oh - do you mean that there will be only one data file for all the panos shot in a series initiated with the Intervalometer? I had envisaged that there would be a separate data file for each pano in a series?

You're right, this is how it should work! But I need to review my code, as for now, it does not generate one data file per pano :( I totally forgot that point.

That's OK - none of us is perfect,as the lady in my life frequently reminds me :rolleyes: - I hadn't really thought about it either until reading your post.

This 'simple Timer/Intervalometer' idea is turning out to be far more complicated than I had initially envisaged - but I think it will be worth the effort.

Software development - like any product development - is an interative process. And you have a exceptionally rapid cycle time on developments.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:37 pm

I just uploaded the current version, so you can test this new feature. Avoid usage of data file for now.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by mediavets » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:54 pm

fma38 wrote:I just uploaded the current version, so you can test this new feature. Avoid usage of data file for now.

Have installed and started 'playing' with it - fascinating. It's so much fun to see an idea turned into reality.

I'll experiment a lot more before offering considered feedback.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Paul » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:08 pm

a little bug in displaying the remaining time

I set "repeat every 00:01:00" just for 1 picture

then it starts counting:
Restart in 00:01:-1
00:01:-2
...
00:01:-29
then it jumps to
00:00:29
00:00:27
...
00:00:00
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by DukeNukeIt » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:24 pm

As for settings on the camera, I have done some time-lapse shots with my camera set on Auto mode. Here is a link to my Vimeo site with a demo...

Dave

Unedited original time-lapse: http://www.vimeo.com/752449

Edited time-lapse with pan: http://www.vimeo.com/1327180

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by BeeZed » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:56 pm

I wish I could keep up with developments! You are amazing.

I would like to vote yes on the pause enabled. I can imagine wanting to stop the process periodically even if I wasn't attending most of the time. I could see reviewing camera settings, changing batteries on the merlin/orion (though I guess this wouldn't work for wireless control situations), or even trying to salvage a situation where the head/tripod moved or otherwise needed adjustment.

On the issue of exposure changing, it might be better to fix exposure, but it is not absolutely necessary. If we could simulate a "halfway shutter push" which is grounding the center of the 2.5mm plug, we could fix the exposure for the entire pano. If I expected large changes in lighting conditions, I would probably bracket anyway.

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by mediavets » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:43 am

mediavets wrote:
fma38 wrote:I just uploaded the current version, so you can test this new feature. Avoid usage of data file for now.

Have installed and started 'playing' with it - fascinating. It's so much fun to see an idea turned into reality.

I'll experiment a lot more before offering considered feedback.

OK.

1. I am not keen on the way the messages on the shooting sequence messages status line 'jump around' - I find it very distracting. Can you align left rather than centred?

2. Can we have a n/N added when Restart in... is displayed - infront of the restart in.... to indicate the number of repeats performed so far (and by implication the no. of repeats still to be performd).

3. Whilst 'Yaw' and 'Pitch may be technically more 'precise' I would prefer 'Row' and Col' to indicate current shooting position in the shooting status line. Do we need brackets around these data?

4. Do we need 'Position' perhaps '#' or 'No.' would do? And make for a less 'busy' status line message string?

5. I had envisaged the Timer setting being a time - eg. 09:35:00, or 21:25:30 rather than a delay, but maybe your implmentation is better. I had enviase it being a clock time rather than a delay time because I was thinking of later developments when you may be able to set more than one time in the Timer - eg. to shoot a pano at 8:30. then another at 11:30 then another at 15:00 (8:30am, 11:30am and 3pm).

6. I like (very much) the implementation of the new tabs in the Configure dialogue and the ability to jump into the Configure dialogue from Shooting dialogue. Can we develop that further and have an icon to jump to the Camera tab and other tanbs it would be useful to access from the Shooting dalogue. I had envisage unlabelled icons to do this wher you currently have labelled icons for Timer and Data file - do we need icons here to be labelled? If we didn't have text labels on the icons we could fit in more icons? Would you GUI toolkit allow you to have pop-up tooltips on such icons rather than labels in the UI?

This may seem like a lot of 'whinges' but they are mainly refinements - overall I think it is very good - great job, Frederic.:)

Thanks.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:34 am

Thanks for bug report.

mediavets wrote:1. I am not keen on the way the messages on the shooting sequence messages status line 'jump around' - I find it very distracting. Can you align left rather than centred?

This is a temporary feature; I plan to find another way to display these informations.

2. Can we have a n/N added when Restart in... is displayed - infront of the restart in.... to indicate the number of repeats performed so far (and by implication the no. of repeats still to be performd).

No problem.

3. Whilst 'Yaw' and 'Pitch may be technically more 'precise' I would prefer 'Row' and Col' to indicate current shooting position in the shooting status line. Do we need brackets around these data?

I do prefer yaw/pitch, as they are terms used by APP. Also think that the head can be horizontal... yaw/pitch will always be relative to the head, but it will be less disturbing than col/row.

4. Do we need 'Position' perhaps '#' or 'No.' would do? And make for a less 'busy' status line message string?

Ok.

5. I had envisaged the Timer setting being a time - eg. 09:35:00, or 21:25:30 rather than a delay, but maybe your implmentation is better. I had enviase it being a clock time rather than a delay time because I was thinking of later developments when you may be able to set more than one time in the Timer - eg. to shoot a pano at 8:30. then another at 11:30 then another at 15:00 (8:30am, 11:30am and 3pm).

This is a simple timer for now ;) I agree we also need a timer like you described. But it will be for a future release...

6. I like (very much) the implementation of the new tabs in the Configure dialogue and the ability to jump into the Configure dialogue from Shooting dialogue. Can we develop that further and have an icon to jump to the Camera tab and other tanbs it would be useful to access from the Shooting dalogue. I had envisage unlabelled icons to do this wher you currently have labelled icons for Timer and Data file - do we need icons here to be labelled? If we didn't have text labels on the icons we could fit in more icons? Would you GUI toolkit allow you to have pop-up tooltips on such icons rather than labels in the UI?

As explained, there are some settings which can't be changed once the shooting dialog is opened. Most of them, in fact. I have to change the internal design to allow this. I think to make a better settings usage for the v2: we will make a big feature/GUI review to implement all these nice ideas.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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by fma38 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:41 am

Paul wrote:a little bug in displaying the remaining time

Fixed.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100

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