Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:23 pm

With the launch of GoPro Fusion (sadly) I doubt this will be addressed anytime soon. While the software for fusion looks promising I'm sure they will have plenty of bugs to work out.

[ytremblay]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ytremblay » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:35 pm

Hi

I found that google chrome has made changes and updates to their browser recently and they might have changed their video codec or add some new codec i think kolor should have a look at it this might cause the problem we see on google chrome

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:16 pm

I don't think that's it because the color profile has always been "limited" with livepano and then kolor changed it to "full" one or two updates ago. That's when the issue started.

[benji33]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by benji33 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:37 pm

When you made the last update, or maybe it was the update before that. You changed the video color profile on exported video though livepano from "limited" to "full". Obviously Chrome doesn't like that.

To be clear on your request, as RGB Limited is for TV screen with a range from 16-235 (black to white) and RBG Full for PC screens with a range from 0-255 (black to white), the fact to use a RBG Full shouldn't be an issue.

But the usage of a RBG Limited on a PC screen should be an issue due to the loose of some data.
In this case, the shadows should be gray and the lights dull. Is it the case?

So the issue is probably not linked to this observation.

So, now, send us your Panotour creations links made with Livepano, rather than Garden Gnome ones which is not our solution, to have a look on your results please. It will be the first step to verify if something is wrong prior to any other request.

Thanks a lot,
Benjamin

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:41 am

Hi Benjamin,

I've already read what you just said when I found out about the difference between a video straight out of livepano and a livepano video that has been rendered though hitfilm express afterwards.

When viewing the meta data in a a processed and unprocessed video file, the ONLY difference I can see, is the color profile.

If it has nothing to do with the color profile, then hitfilm does something to the file that doesn't show up in the meta info.

I've made these comparison demos just for you to show the difference.
http://tour.swedvr.se/thefan_unprocessed/thefan.html
http://tour.swedvr.se/thefan_through_hi ... hefan.html

The only thing I've done differently in the "though hitfilm" demo is that I dropped the livepano video in the timeline of hitfilm, it asks if I want to change the project resolution to match the video, I say yes, I then go to export, adjust the bitrate and then I export. That's it!

I've exported the metadata with mediatab 1.4 and if you have better metadata tools, then you can simply extract the video from each tour and check yourselves.

Attachments

thefan_without_hitfilm.txt

(18.59 KiB) Downloaded 372 times

thefan_processed_with_hitfilm.txt

(18.24 KiB) Downloaded 358 times

[3N Planet]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by 3N Planet » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:20 am

Hello everyone, I write the wrong place, but thanks to everyone for giving me instructions on livepano toggle button

- normal live no will stick to the panorama created with it
- in this demo https://goo.gl/Lqei7s livepano appears and hides in a separate way (using the custom Panotour pro)

=> I want to ask how to adjust setting to do so dc
Thank people.

Attachments

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:12 pm

@3N Planet that's a great tour! Do you know if that was created with PTP or P2VR?

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:17 pm

@ungeherr I see the very slight differences but it's difficult since you hid the masking very well (by placement). There is still a visible outline though so while it's "better" it's still not "salable" to a client.

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:50 pm

@3N Planet that's a great tour! Do you know if that was created with PTP or P2VR?

It was created with PTP and they spent over 6 months on it. I recommend @3N Planet to contact them and ask directly.

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:19 pm

@ungeherr I see the very slight differences but it's difficult since you hid the masking very well (by placement). There is still a visible outline though so while it's "better" it's still not "salable" to a client.

The difference varies in different cases. In this case I can admit that it's only slightly better.
If you look closely on the mask in older livepano projects, you will notice that they too are not perfect.

I just realized (literally minutes ago) that the color and exposure of video is mostly decided by how well the screenshot was integrated in the panorama.

It sounds obvious now but I never really thought about it. I couldn't understand why one of my livepanos looked like ####. It was captured at a night club and the colors were totally washed out. When I watched the video, it looked fine but the livepano outcome was very dark and had almost no color to it.
I tried boosting the video exposure using photoshop as my video editor but there was only a slight improvement with the final livepano.
After several trial and errors I realized that the video image in the .pano file was superdark. I thought that that image was only used for positioning of the video but it's also used for the color grading.

When I color graded the video image manually in Autopano Gige, the final result went from #### to AMAZING.

What I want to say is that I'm pretty sure livepano tries to slightly even out the difference between the panorama and the video image in the .pano file. If the video image (in the .pano) is way off, then the whole livepano will be a little off.

So by making sure that the video screenshot looks perfect in the .pano file and by processing the livepano video though hitfilm, you should end up with an almost perfect result.

[3N Planet]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by 3N Planet » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:05 pm

@3N Planet that's a great tour! Do you know if that was created with PTP or P2VR?

Thank you for your cmt. This feature is achieved by custum krpano coding and I don't think it is possible to do it through Panotour/livepano interface alone.

[3N Planet]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by 3N Planet » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:07 pm

@3N Planet that's a great tour! Do you know if that was created with PTP or P2VR?

It was created with PTP and they spent over 6 months on it. I recommend @3N Planet to contact them and ask directly.

you are right, I should contact the manufacturer, This feature is achieved by custum krpano coding and I don't think it is possible to do it through Panotour/livepano interface alone.

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:11 pm

@ungeherr Although I completely understand what you are saying but I can't believe that the screenshot will have an impact on the video exposure/color? Like you said, I thought it was only for positioning. I've never seen or heard anything which indicates a link between the screenshot and video related to exposure/grading. Maybe @benji33 or Annis can confirm this?

[benji33]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by benji33 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:29 pm

Quick test tonight under macOS 10.12 on my MacBookPro, really where is the difference ?

Without
Chrome :

Safari :

Processed
Chrome :

Safari :

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:47 am

@benji33 Well as for the "processed" vs. "unprocessed" I don't see any substantial difference BUT I do see a perceptible difference between Chrome vs. Safari. It looks as if Safari is rendering it "smoother" when processed meaning I see less of an acute difference between the video mask and still image.

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:35 pm

@benji33 I don't really understand your mentality towards this issue. You're doing everything you can to prove that there's no issue.

I've now spent several more hours doing what you should be doing and I have information to share.

Livepano works great if you use apple products or Sarafi on a pc. For every other combination where apple isn't involved, there is a visible mask.

Kolor can continue to blame Google and every other web browser developer who doesn't display livepano properly but unless you (Kolor) can make Google fix the issue on their end, it's up to you to fix it on yours or at least do your best to come as close to a solution as possible which is what I'm trying to do.

We are your customers and you need to take us seriously because in the end, it's your customers who pay both you and your bosses salary. Please try and remember that.

Below you can see that I've tested different combinations in both chrome and safari. I also tried Chrome on my iPad and it doesn't display the same issue as with a PC or android device.

@Err In the attached image you can see the importance of making sure that the screenshot is probably color graded in Autopano Giga. You can also see that even though my solution didn't completely remove the mask, it still looks much better. As I said before, the mask visibility varies between cases. I have some livepanos where the mask is 100% invisible after hitfilm processing when viewed though chrome on both a pc and android device.

Why do I care so much about Chrome. Well, 60% use Chrome on mobile devices. Only 25% of those can be apple devices based on their market share which means that there is more android phones running chrome than there are iphones.
The same thing goes for PCs. 50% use Chrome on desktop and a majority of those devices are not made by Apple.

I don't care if I'm mistaking about what the cause is with this issue. Maybe it's not the color profile, it could be that changing it only masks what is really the root cause but we won't know until you take this seriously and start investigating.

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:19 pm

Well referring to @ungeherr's examples there is a remarkable difference and I have to say that I agree with his perception (of Kolor) and logic regarding this issue. Chrome does have the market share but that's besides the point as LivePano should work with All browsers (as it did before). That being acknowledged how should Kolor proceed? If it's working with Safari they need to figure out what the differences are between it and the other 2-3 major browsers? For an experienced programmer it would stand to reason it should be relatively "easy" to figure out. But then if you correct it so that it works fine with Chrome, Firefox & IE it may not work with Safari. That being said it stands to reason that Kolor needs to take a Utilitarianistic viewpoint "greater good for greater number" with regards to this issue.

As a professional end consumer I personally don't appreciate products that work fine one day and then don't the next. If I purchase a professional solution it is expected to perform the task it was advertised to. LivePano does not and it has affected my business in a negative way.

What I do appreciate is a company that will work tirelessly to correct unfortunate "mishaps" as is with LivePano. Unfortunately, for whatever reason (GoPro), I haven't seen any attempts or even interest to correct this issue and I have to agree with ungeherr that you (Kolor) are making excuses and shifting the blame to the browsers when you (Kolor) should be working on a fix.

As a small business we have extremely limited finances so we have to make sure every purchase will be relevant for years down the road. The suite of AGP, PTP and LP was very expensive but after researching many software solutions, we decided on them because they "played nice together" and Kolor seemed to have a good history of keeping up with "revisions" and moving their products forward to keep them relevant.

Now I'm left with a useless piece of software (which should work) that I can't possibly use for professional business (jobs). I'm also left wondering what the heck happened to Kolor's dedication to their clients?

You CAN fix this.

[benji33]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by benji33 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:22 pm

@benji33 I don't really understand your mentality towards this issue. You're doing everything you can to prove that there's no issue.

No, it's false. I just try to have something to test and to validate what you're saying. No more, it's why I require a sample.

Livepano works great if you use apple products or Sarafi on a pc. For every other combination where apple isn't involved, there is a visible mask.

Thanks for these tests. When I tested your sample I was at home on my MacBookPro so I've tested on it. I'll have a test on my office PC on monday to validate.

Kolor can continue to blame Google and every other web browser developer who doesn't display livepano properly but unless you (Kolor) can make Google fix the issue on their end, it's up to you to fix it on yours or at least do your best to come as close to a solution as possible which is what I'm trying to do.

We don't blame Google. Tell that the video codecs are not manage the same way on differents browsers is just true and I don't see here where Google is blamed?

We are your customers and you need to take us seriously ...

Yes, and it's why I'm here tonight.

... because in the end, it's your customers who pay both you and your bosses salary. Please try and remember that.

Just a word on that. I'm in my home on my spare time to answer you at this time and read this is just not correct. If you just want to judge people ... you also can go away from Kolor products and look after the others solutions. Kolor has always been near it's customers and you'll never find such a kind of forum with a dedicated person as Annis to answer and address all questions and problems of the customers on so many topics. Feel free to think differently.

I don't care if I'm mistaking about what the cause is with this issue. Maybe it's not the color profile, it could be that changing it only masks what is really the root cause but we won't know until you take this seriously and start investigating.

Send us some ressources (dropbox, googledrive, etc...) to have more and more samples which work pretty well or doesn't work at all and after investigation perhaps a solution will be found.
With last steps on the development of Livepano, our samples was suffisant but it's always important to grab some ressources for testing purposes.

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:52 am

@benji33 you're finally on the right course to earn my respect.

This is one of my livepanos where the mask is maybe not 100 but close to 99% invisible. The reason why this pano looks better is because there's only black and white colors.

I believe that when I implement the limited color profile with hitfilm, what happens is that the darkest and lightest parts get really close to what Chrome needs to match a video with the sRGB color profile.
All the colors in between are closer to what Chrome wants but they're still a little too bright or too dark and that's why my solution is not perfect.

Here's the demo without processing though hitfilm
http://tour.swedvr.se/livepanonightclub/index.html

And here's after
http://tour.swedvr.se/hitfilmlivepanoni ... index.html

This must be viewed on a PC with chrome to see the difference. I didn't process the low res livepano so you wont see the difference on a mobile device.

Project file
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8N9q ... VJSMFNDWlE

livepano video file
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8N9q ... 1VqUmE1QlU

livepano video file processed though hitfilm
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8N9q ... W1UZmh1U0E

[ERR]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ERR » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:15 pm

Just a word on that. I'm in my home on my spare time to answer you at this time and read this is just not correct. If you just want to judge people ... you also can go away from Kolor products and look after the others solutions. Kolor has always been near it's customers and you'll never find such a kind of forum with a dedicated person as Annis to answer and address all questions and problems of the customers on so many topics. Feel free to think differently.

Well I for one can say that it true. This forum is the only one (and I've been on quite a few) where you get actual solutions to problems. You also get treated with respect no matter what your skill level. Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, GoPro, DJI and Google all have horrible support and rely on users to provide solutions to each other. That Kolor actually has programmers working on issues in the forum(s) is a rarity which can not be overlooked (or thanked enough). When GoPro scooped up Kolor we all knew there would be a (unfortunate) shift in priorities. Such is the case here. So while I, like many other LivePano users, am very frustrated with the current situation (and voice it here) I will also take the time to say: merci d'avoir pris le temps de répondre personnellement à nos questions.

Now please fix this annoying problem

[benji33]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by benji33 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:28 pm

Thanks for the links, I'll have a look on your ressources, not before Wednesday because I'm already full for tomorrow.

[signmaster]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by signmaster » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:41 pm

Hi Benjamin
Thought I would repost this here as it might give some insight to the problem.

Don't know if this will help but I did some tests on some PCs at work and my 2 PC's at home with different browsers.

Windows Version Browser Version Comments

Testing live pano work PCs
Windows XP SP3 IE 8 - OK
Windows 10 Chrome - Mask visible, bad
Windows 10 Edge - OK
Windows 7 IE 11 - Mask visible, bad
Windows 7 Chrome - OK
Windows 7 FireFox - OK
Windows 7 Opera Neon - Mask visible, bad
Windows 7 Opera 42 - Mask visible, bad

Testing Home PC i7 desktop
Windows 10 Chrome - Mask visible, bad
Windows 10 Edge - Mask visible, not as bad as the other browsers
Windows 10 FireFox - Mask visible, bad
Windows 10 Opera 48 - Mask visible, bad
Windows 10 Brave - Mask visible, bad

Surface Pro 3 i7
Windows 10 Chrome - Mask visible, bad
Windows 10 Edge - OK
Windows 10 FireFox - Mask visible, bad

When I say "OK" the result is quite acceptable.

Steve

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:25 am

This is really interesting. Great work!
I didn't think about that different versions of windows would make a difference.
It's quite weird though that the mask is more visible on your home pc when viewing the tour through edge. It shouldn't be different from your other computers so it's probably due to your monitor exaggerating the color that makes the mask more visible.

[signmaster]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by signmaster » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:37 am

Dual monitors at home and both monitors show the same. All the computers in the above list have had their monitors calibrated.

[ungeherr]

Re: Livepano layer mask visible in chrome

by ungeherr » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:41 am

Very weird. It can only be the graphics card if it isn't the monitor but I would say it's highly unlikely. There must be something else in the software that differs between your work and home computer.