Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by **Markus W.** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:04 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by Markus W. » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:04 pm

Shais, vaslag... have you contact Kolor and described our Problem?

by **vaslag** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by vaslag » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Contacted both Kolor and panoshoot.....

Some issues are nearly resolved (like importing HDR xml file made with panoshoot with papywizard plugin), but on others we have no news, like the new firmware to solve some other issues)

by **shais** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:11 pm

I have.
both Kolor and the makers of panoshoot keep saying "an update will be out soon". But we've been hearing this for far to long now.
This also reflects quite bad on Kolors service level. That's too bad since their software is very good. But after this I can't really recommend people spending their money on them.

by **shais** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:20 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:20 pm

Just thought I'd ask.
It's been almost a year now since the last time I checked. Has anyone heard any news?
How do you use your Panogear?
I have reluctantly bought the Bluetooth module (as I can't afford the T&C hand controller) and am trying to get comfortable with PapyWizard and PandroidWiz.[/quote]

And how are you getting on with those programs?

I feel very bad about this for two reasons. 1- I wasted a lot of money on a controller that I can't really use

I can quite understand your irritation.

2- I do think that the Panoshoot had some interesting things going on (I really miss the high speed they reached).

So does that mean that you did get Panoshoot to work?

Their notion of a trade off between precision and speed was interesting.

by **klausesser** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:34 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by klausesser » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:34 pm

shais wrote:Their notion of a trade off between precision and speed was interesting.

It´s obvious that improving speed while keeping precison means to improve mechanical accuracy.
Which means that you can´t expect high precision AND high speed at the same time from a low-cost head.

The Merlin is a good device coming at a very low price when you compare it to others. I used it for quite a time.
Here´s an example - shot with the Merlin and the T&C controller:

www.360impressions.de/Medienhafen

About 4 Gigapixels, Nikon 85mm lens on a Canon 5D2. The shooting took quite a long time because of the
Merlin´s low speed. But the accuracy isn´t t oo bad i mean.

My Panoneed-head shoots the same pano in less than half the time with better precision. But it´s much
more expensive as well - around 2500.-€ versus the Merlin´s 300.-€ .

Klaus

by **shais** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:35 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:35 am

Something weird happened, somehow my previous post was mixed with a reply that someone made. so I'll try to re-write the main idea.

What I wrote, besides being frustrated etc. was that since I believe that the Panoshoot project is a dead one I wish that we (the community) could at least get the code for the controller and maybe make this an open-source project. There are quite a few of us who bought this hardware and as of now we can't really use it. If we get the code maybe as a community we can continue developing it and make some use of the hardware.
-- Does anybody here have a connection to Kolor or Panoshoot so we can ask them for this? ---

As it seems that we can forget about getting our money back or getting any further support from Panoshoot, we can at least try and make something good with this.

P.S. I don't mean to offend anyone but I don't think there's much point in mentioning the Panoneed and T&C hand controller in every comment. We know that they are better products. and if I had the money I would surely buy them. but what I'm trying to do in this thread is save some of my investment in the Panoshoot controller.
Again, not trying to offend anyone, and all information is welcome.

Shai

by **shais** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:51 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:51 am

shais wrote:Just thought I'd ask.
It's been almost a year now since the last time I checked. Has anyone heard any news?
How do you use your Panogear?
I have reluctantly bought the Bluetooth module (as I can't afford the T&C hand controller) and am trying to get comfortable with PapyWizard and PandroidWiz.

And how are you getting on with those programs?

I think it's fine. learning the XML thing. I seem to have a problem with pandroidwiz running presets (papywizard is fine) but I'm in contact with the developer to try and solve this.

2- I do think that the Panoshoot had some interesting things going on (I really miss the high speed they reached).

So does that mean that you did get Panoshoot to work?

Their notion of a trade off between precision and speed was interesting.

[/quote]
I did use it a bit, but it's just to cumbersome and unreliable for real use. I did manage to make a nice pano with it but it was very hard work since I did not have any XML files to give autopano.
http://www.gigapixel.co.il

BTW, who wrote this post? as it seems that my original post and your comments got mixed up.

by **mediavets** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:18 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by mediavets » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:18 am

shais wrote:
BTW, who wrote this post? as it seems that my original post and your comments got mixed up.

Ooops...my mistake. Seems I hit Edit rather than Quote.

by **mediavets** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:23 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by mediavets » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:23 am

shais wrote:I seem to have a problem with pandroidwiz running presets (papywizard is fine) but I'm in contact with the developer to try and solve this.

Having been involved in testing and development and documentation of Papywizard and PandroidWiz I would be interested to learn more about the problems you experienced with PandroidWiz and presets.

This may not be the topic in which to address this but we could discuss it here:

viewforum.php?f=20

by **klausesser** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:55 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by klausesser » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:55 pm

shais wrote:P.S. I don't mean to offend anyone but I don't think there's much point in mentioning the Panoneed and T&C hand controller in every comment. We know that they are better products. and if I had the money I would surely buy them. but what I'm trying to do in this thread is save some of my investment in the Panoshoot controller.
Again, not trying to offend anyone, and all information is welcome.

Hey Shais!

I understand that.
The question is: how much sense does it make to burn even mor emoney by trying to develop things which others
already successfully realized?
See - i doubt you will be able to re-animate Panoshoot. It must have a reason they skipped it.

My advise would be: **** happens, so forget it.

2 hints:

1) get familiar with the Papywizard-thing and buy an ancient NokiaN800/N810. As far as i know this combo still works fine.
2) ask Andrew (mediavets) about the alternative he mentioned.

Both ways need to make compromises - and at least the N800/PW way sometimes made me crazy when i used it for about 2 years.
That was the reason for me to look for a brilliant engineer for developing a dedicated device - which came out as
the T&C handheld. Simple, reliably, effectively it does what it´s supposed to do.
Developing the T&C took about a year. The engineer, Josef, is a very experienced and VERY skilled mechanical and
electronics engineer.
He ran a resarch and develop-department at 3M for a long time including the developing and realizing
a digital scan-camera for scientific purpose at a time when there was none on the market.

I mean about 180.-€ + 19% tax for the controller to be used on the Merlin is an adaequate price - building it yourself from scratch
will take you many months and that definitely will cost you more money.

Again: there must be a reason why Panoshoot failed. I don´t know the reason - but i guess they underestimated
the task . . maybe because they were/are no every day working photographers.

Quite clearly Josef would have run into issues without my support by testing and testing and testing and
putting in my experiences and skills as a photographer.

Many things during the developement were skipped on my advise because they looked good in theory - but were
not really clever in practical use. Like several features at the Panoshoot. Thery´re useless and counterproductive.

What i know about the Panoshoot: exactly THIS was the missing point in the project: they obviously either had no
pro-photographer at hand giving advises - or they simply didn´t listen to him/her.

Klaus

by **Markus W.** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:50 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by Markus W. » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:50 pm

It's a shame that Kolor leave us alone!

We've bought a very expensive Thing which was very beta!!!

Kolor not respond my emails, nor do I get an answer to my ask to refund the money, or to call me an alternative.

I am very disappointed with the behavior of Kolor!

by **shais** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:45 pm

klausesser wrote:The question is: how much sense does it make to burn even mor emoney by trying to develop things which others
already successfully realized?
See - i doubt you will be able to re-animate Panoshoot. It must have a reason they skipped it.

My advise would be: **** happens, so forget it.

2 hints:

1) get familiar with the Papywizard-thing and buy an ancient NokiaN800/N810. As far as i know this combo still works fine.
2) ask Andrew (mediavets) about the alternative he mentioned.

I see your point. I saw this as an opportunity for learning and as I enjoy DIY and some programming (as I believe others here do) I thought it would be nice to make this work. or play with it.
I did order the Bluetooth dongle and am now starting to reuse my Merlin (I stopped using it completely and went back to my old manfrotto manual head)

klausesser wrote:I mean about 180.-€ + 19% tax for the controller to be used on the Merlin is an adaequate price - building it yourself from scratch
will take you many months and that definitely will cost you more money.

I had no complaints about the price, I think it's fair. It's just that the Merlin ROI is not that good for my business and I can't justify spending more money at this. the problem is me, not the T&C

klausesser wrote:Again: there must be a reason why Panoshoot failed. I don´t know the reason - but i guess they underestimated
the task . . maybe because they were/are no every day working photographers.

There was a reply way back from the panoshoot team that made it seem like the problem was something personal with the engineer, but I wouldn't really know. I Agree that there are a lot of things there that are not usable or practical for pro photographers in the state they currently are.

Markus W. wrote:It's a shame that Kolor leave us alone!
We've bought a very expensive Thing which was very beta!!!
Kolor not respond my emails, nor do I get an answer to my ask to refund the money, or to call me an alternative.
I am very disappointed with the behavior of Kolor!

Me to, I perceive Kolor as a serious company and am very dissapointed. Too bad they make such good software

I don't understand how they keep offering the panoshoot module as THE controller for the panogear in their store.
I'm very angry but I really don't know what I can do, maybe I should just listen to what klausesser said "sometimes sh** happens"

So, as a fun weekend project, is anyone with me on trying to get the code for the panoshoot?

by **klausesser** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:15 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by klausesser » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:15 am

shais wrote:It's just that the Merlin ROI is not that good for my business . .

What does "Merlin ROI" mean?

Klaus

by **shais** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:34 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:34 am

klausesser wrote:
shais wrote:It's just that the Merlin ROI is not that good for my business . .

What does "Merlin ROI" mean?

Klaus

Return Of Investment - what I meant is that I don't make enough money with the head to justify a bigger investment in this area. I seem to be having a hard time getting my clients to pay for these panoramas

by **Lionel Laissus** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:58 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by Lionel Laissus » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:58 am

Hi all

First of all Panoshoot project is not dead.

We are frustrated as much as you are about that situation but a wind of change is rising ....
Long story short, we spent a lot of time negotiating with Panoramic Essential (Owner). Finally we found an agreement to get the source code.
So now Panoshoot firmware belongs to Kolor.

Road map:
-A new firmware V2.0 is planned to the beginning of 2015 with a brand new UI much more friendly

We are going to release a new V100 firmware update (V98->100)

Thank you for your patience and understanding

by **shais** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:49 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:49 am

Lionel Laissus wrote:Hi all

First of all Panoshoot project is not dead.

We are frustrated as much as you are about that situation but a wind of change is rising ....
Long story short, we spent a lot of time negotiating with Panoramic Essential (Owner). Finally we found an agreement to get the source code.
So now Panoshoot firmware belongs to Kolor.

Road map:
-A new firmware V2.0 is planned to the beginning of 2015 with a brand new UI much more friendly

We are going to release a new V100 firmware update (V98->100)

Thank you for your patience and understanding

You have made my day! Now that development is in the hands of the capable people at Kolor I trust we will see some VERY good things.
I offer any help needed in beta or anything else that might be useful.
In the meanwhile I'll keep using my Bluetooth with papywizard

by **Markus W.** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:41 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by Markus W. » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:41 pm

I agree with Shais, that are very good news!!!!

I'm also interested to test some beta for getting a better System.

by **vaslag** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by vaslag » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:29 pm

Good News!!!!
I'm interested too....

by **stoyanmar** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:13 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by stoyanmar » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:13 am

Hello Lionel,

As the beginning of 2015 is already a fact, I would appreciate an update of the development. Any ETA?

I am currently considering buying a Panogear but I am quite scared from the Panoshoot drama described in numerous posts around here. I am seriously considering the T&C controller.

You've got a chance here to win me back.

Stoyan

by **shais** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:59 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by shais » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:59 pm

Same here

by **stoyanmar** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:54 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by stoyanmar » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:54 pm

Just to let everyone know: Just got the Merlin head and the Type&Colour handheld controller. Works like a charm. Reliable and fast! In my case it shoots every 8 seconds. A 230+ shot panorama takes approximately 30 minutes. Way to go for a 3+ gigapixel panorama...

by **fred nurk** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:18 am

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by fred nurk » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:18 am

I experienced many difficulties getting the Panoshoot module operational. I now have stumbled onto a way to get it working.

Contact me by email - con22@bigpond.com - & I will send you a .doc which tells you how I did it.

by **klausesser** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Have we made a big mistake buying into this system?

by klausesser » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:49 pm

stoyanmar wrote:Just to let everyone know: Just got the Merlin head and the Type&Colour handheld controller. Works like a charm. Reliable and fast! In my case it shoots every 8 seconds. A 230+ shot panorama takes approximately 30 minutes. Way to go for a 3+ gigapixel panorama...

Hey man! Congratulations! :cool:

Klaus

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