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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:52 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
I don't really know why you don't WANT to understand what I mean.

It seems that you want only be unpleasant... lol
I made this question:
"I ask you, how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?"

No, is not commercial. It's for timely informations about race and event


1) you cannot know what Andrew or me understand or not.
2) it´s ridiculous to think that Andrew or me have nothing better in mind than being "unpleasant" to you.
3) the only one who behaves "unpleasant" are you.

My final words to you: i wanted to give some hints. No more, no less. If you don´t like what i say: no problem.
Your business.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:01 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
I don't really know why you don't WANT to understand what I mean.

It seems that you want only be unpleasant... lol

No I'm not trying to be unpleasant; just trying to understand better where you are coming from.

I've not come across anyone involved in 'industrial shooting' on this scale before; other than Google of course..
I made this question:
Quote:
"I ask you, how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?"

No, is not commercial. It's for timely informations about race and event

OK - so this is panoramic reportage for your personal pleasure/satisfaction?

The difference is that Klaus doesn't shoot any projects for 'fun' as far as I know; I believe that his work is always paid commissions, so he has to satisfy the quality demands and expectations of his clients, and that determines his approach and the time he spends and the fees he charges.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:14 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
The difference is that Klaus doesn't shoot any projects for 'fun' as far as I know;



Well - from time to time i do indeed "projects just for fun". But i only have fun with them when do them in high
quality instead of high quantities . . ;) :cool:

I understand a need to mass-produce panos or photography for certain demands of a client.
I do not understand mass-production sacrifying quality doing it as private work.

But i don´t need at all to understand that.

The fallback of such undertakings: people see what you did and think:" mmhh - not so good as it should be".
At this point you lost them - they do not ask WHY it´s "not so good". That´s not of their interest. They only see
what you present to them.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:14 pm 
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But you have not answered the my question and it appears you have not yet grasped the issue.

I need to be speedy as soon as possible. so, for you, I must use motorized head and templates.
Then I need (for which i read in this thread) manual head and look into finder to see if some people make me noise, and then some minutes to shoot to save masking in studio.

What happen in reality?
I shoot like a motorized (speed and precision) but manually to take best moment for people moving in scene. Then in studio, for speed, I don't mask nothing to prevent ghosts, also (this time) to remove some recognizable faces.

Now i really need a reply to my question. "how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?" and, for how many money? :-)


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:20 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
But you have not answered the my question and it appears you have not yet grasped the issue ...

Now i really need a reply to my question. "how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?" and, for how many money? :-)


I don't know - nor care - shooting and processing 60 or more panos a day wouldn't interest me; and certainly not as a hobby (unpaid).

..............

Nevertheless I will continue to try to answer your questions about the use of PTP 2.x as best I can, bearing in mind that I have no interest in nor skills in 'hacking' the XML code.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:25 pm 
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I know what you say. But problem is: I want to publish now what happens now.

"I've not come across anyone involved in 'industrial shooting' on this scale before; other than Google of course.."

Now you know me! :-) and I made this work (street view) years before google.

Quality vs quantity? No, it isn't a war through two way of shooting.
Sometime I have works where speed is needed, and other time when quality is needed. In this second time is not only quantity I look for, but a compromise of both.

Well... "how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?" and, for how many money? :-)
I think you don't known. (Only because you never fronted this need)


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:25 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
Now i really need a reply to my question. "how many time you think you need to publish a project like this and with quality and problem solving you say?" and, for how many money? :-)


I don´t understand that question, sorry.

good luck with your project, Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Capisciammè ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:35 pm 
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[quote="immersiva.it"]I know what you say. But problem is: I want to publish now what happens now.

Then this may interest you, if you have not come across it before:

http://www.livepanoramas.com/

'Instant' publishing of no-stitch panoramas.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Yes, interesting multi camera.
Camera is blocked in a position where people doesn't disturb the view of event subjects. :-) Like a TV. Well. for our use it's like to be the scene locked for anyone, with i.e. with hurdles :-) .. should be easy or not?
I called it (in 2004) Video Virtual Tour..

When i shot my street level i take only one single photo file for pano, there wasn't problems of ghosts and stiching but quality was very bad vs quality of today.

I shoot photos in HDR for best quality. Time during bracket photos people moves in the scene and covered parts of cars display or not. Result is that cars are as best possible totally visible and people make ugly ghost problems.

Also me i search for best compromise.

This post starts with a request: how can I reduce filed of view of panos (for seeing only cars and not persons in the backside). Reply wasn't for my problem: speed I need.
Then someone starts critic work I linked.. I think it's very easy when the problem is only have ONE pano in the best quality possible with all the time you need.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:14 pm 
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But really, if someone have any suggestion for upgrade my quality and maintain similar speed i've only hears for these!

Like shoot 5/7/9 bracket photos, ND filters, megaphone to fear people :) and made they get away from my lens (for all 360° it's a little problematic you known? and also for 1 hour e along my tour.... :/ ) , shooting from a very high point with my tripod, etc etc.
Also critics I think are not costructive... :rolleyes:


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:22 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
This post starts with a request: how can I reduce filed of view of panos (for seeing only cars and not persons in the backside). Reply wasn't for my problem: speed I need.



And you got an answer in my first answer - sadly it didn´t satisfy you . . . Nevertheless it would take just about 2 minutes to solve the problem.
There is no automated way to do it.

If 2 min. is too long . . . then don´t shoot 360x180°. It´s as simple as that.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:35 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
But really, if someone have any suggestion for upgrade my quality and maintain similar speed i've only hears for these!

Like shoot 5/7/9 bracket photos, ND filters, megaphone to fear people :) and made they get away from my lens (for all 360° it's a little problematic you known? and also for 1 hour e along my tour.... :/ ) , shooting from a very high point with my tripod, etc etc.
Also critics I think are not costructive... :rolleyes:



Don´t shoot bracketed - use RAW.

It´s NEVER a good idea shooting bracketed when there are moving objects around.

You would be able to mask the ghosts already in Photomatix - but i guess that also wouldn´t meet
your time-scales.

What you do not seem to understand: there are things which CAN NOT be done in short time.

The shortest way:

1) shoot RAW instead of brackets. Saves time and produces less ghosts. You need to process the RAWs carefully in terms of CAs and contrast/color - but you can make a preset which need one click for processing all your shots the same way.
2) use a fullframe camera and a fullframe fisheye for saving resolution. (you didn´t tell what you use)
3) use a manual head (you didn´t tell what you use)
4) use around ISO 200/400 and use f5,6/8 on a fisheye (you didn´t tell what you use)
5) use a fast machine for stitching/editing (you didn´t tell what you use)

If you had provided more informations - i don´t understand why you did not - it´s much easier for us to help.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:07 pm 
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First: I prefer brackets instead of raw because if subject is hidden by person who moves front me (there was a mass), more picture increase possibility to see more parts of fixed subjects, not only for dinamic range.

I used F14 and ISO 100 and stay near about max 2m from the cars (but people comes all over me)
I use an APS-C not full frame camera with a fisheye that perform me 12500px full pano width (I usually resize to 8192px for online use) with manual head.

For the same reason at first I think I can try to shot not only 4(x3) shot (every 90°) but 6(x3) shots (every 60°) and increase time between singular bracket shots.

The only problems was those you tell me about ghosts. I don't have any other problem to solve.
Suggestion I like is for ghosts and parts of cars potentially (and perhaps accidentaly (I hope)) hidden by people.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:09 pm 
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first of all:
cars was always partially hidden by people. That's my only problem to solve.
RAW is not the solution.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:13 pm 
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Another possibility may I try is:
shot only one photo for back parts of panorama and more for cars view.

For this, when I try, i must search an automation for stich:
I think I will have some problem for stich "asimmetrical" shots.
I say for example:
- 1 shot for 0°
- 1 shot for 90°
- 1 shot for 180°
- 5 shots for 270°


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 4:56 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
Yes, interesting multi camera.

No, Livepanoramas uses a single camera, six shots around to produce a stitchless pano, so no ghosting on playback.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:02 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
first of all:
cars was always partially hidden by people. That's my only problem to solve.
RAW is not the solution.


Shoot from a short-ish pole to position camera rig above head height of the people?

Probably best to used with a motorisdr head such as a Seitz VRDrive2.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:17 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
first of all:
cars was always partially hidden by people. That's my only problem to solve.
RAW is not the solution.


Quite simple: do not fire the camera when people are moving between the camera and the car.
You will not find any automatic solving that problem for you . .

That´s what i meant suggesting to watch the scene and fire the camera the right moment.
This is far more convenient when you shoot ONE RAW shot instead of x shots bracketing.

Doing this all the time you can use ONE optimized setting in the RAW converter for all your shots in batch mode.

That is MUCH better than using different shooting strategies of mixing oneshot and mutishots. Processing THAT would cost you
MUCH time.

Klaus


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:12 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
immersiva.it wrote:
first of all:
cars was always partially hidden by people. That's my only problem to solve.
RAW is not the solution.


Quite simple: do not fire the camera when people are moving between the camera and the car.
You will not find any automatic solving that problem for you . .

That´s what i meant suggesting to watch the scene and fire the camera the right moment.
This is far more convenient when you shoot ONE RAW shot instead of x shots bracketing.

Doing this all the time you can use ONE optimized setting in the RAW converter for all your shots in batch mode.

That is MUCH better than using different shooting strategies of mixing oneshot and mutishots. Processing THAT would cost you
MUCH time.

Klaus


I am with you Klaus, no bracketing when so many things are moving, simple as that. Just make the shot again is something or someone was in the picture, remove the photo while editing.
And as there is a need for speed, shooting one RAW is the way to go. Likely also a bit higher ISO and fullframe if possible.

Yes a lot of CA should be corrected. Why even think about bracketing when CA is that bad. photomatix is the way to go to correct CA.

60 panoramas a day including editing? That's crazy isn't it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:09 pm 
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If I must wait "the right moment" ... I only wait.. but I never take my photos.
Probably you never met people who walk always right to you and between your object to shot.
Sure that one shot does solves nothing. Sure
Have you seen how many (only they) photographers there were?
Boh... In my humble opinion I think that if you would shot panos in that atmosphere, you should leave your camera into the bag,
I don't known how I must write this, but "when play became hard, hard men start to play".. ah ah ah


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:10 pm 
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immersiva.it wrote:
If I must wait "the right moment" ... I only wait.. but I never take my photos.


Then you need to accept cars being obscured by people. Very simple.

immersiva.it wrote:
Probably you never met people who walk always right to you and between your object to shot.
Sure that one shot does solves nothing. Sure
Have you seen how many (only they) photographers there were?
Boh... In my humble opinion I think that if you would shot panos in that atmosphere, you should leave your camera into the bag,
I don't known how I must write this, but "when play became hard, hard men start to play".. ah ah ah


Really - that´s nonsense, sorry. Real photographers always find ways to solve this kind of problems.
Many exzellent panos in crowded places wouldn´t have been taken if photographers would think your kind of cumbersome way.

good luck anyway, Klaus


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:53 am 
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"always SEARCH to solve problems"

This threah starts with a solution (making don't visible backside). Then I don't see any solution of people always between camera and cars.

"many excellent panos in crowed places" .. yes. Sure. But I never seen yet solution of problem of "60 panos in 1 hour". Probably there isn't?

I think many shots for view of cars (not bracketing), shooted manually for best ( but partial) view.

It remain some problem for automated stich to avoid photoshop.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:13 am 
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immersiva.it wrote:
"always SEARCH to solve problems"


That´s what i do all the time. That´s why i suggested to use the viewer and wait for the right moment to shoot.
This is the ONLY way.
As Anderew mentioned already: you can build a rig to place the camera high enough to shoot the car from above the
pedestrian´s heads - but:
1) you´ll see the rig in the soots of course.
2) it´s endangered being thrown over by the crowd.
3) it takes much time to place and to move it. Maybe having 5 assistants . .

But of course you also might ask the police to ban all pedestrians from the site you´re shooting . . . :p

immersiva.it wrote:
This threah starts with a solution (making don't visible backside).


Yes - and i provided the solution in my first answer . . . and showed an example.

immersiva.it wrote:
Then I don't see any solution of people always between camera and cars.


This one was also answered.

immersiva.it wrote:
"many excellent panos in crowed places" .. yes. Sure. But I never seen yet solution of problem of "60 panos in 1 hour". Probably there isn't?


There isn´t. Forget it. Also answered already.

immersiva.it wrote:
I think many shots for view of cars (not bracketing), shooted manually for best ( but partial) view.
It remain some problem for automated stich to avoid photoshop.


Again: look through the viewer and wait for a good moment to shoot. Place the camera in a way you only need ONE shot for the car.
There is no other solution for your problem.

I also explained the automated stitch.

Sometimes you remind me of the man who walks in the rain and complains getting wet - but don´t like to use an umbrella because
that´s "too uncomfortable" . . . . . ;) :cool:

Klaus

P.S.: what in the world at all made you think doing 60 panos of this kind in a day??


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:29 am 
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:-)
It was my first crowed mass pano's session but I think more shots for the single view of cars because one shot (if no policeman who helps me) it isn't enough.
Now (only now with studio time and after first publishing), I'm publishing the same project with reduced field of view.

Later I will try with a trial crowed scene for more shots and I'll search for some tricks for automation.

"explained automated stich" .. You mean for "inhomogeneous" pano shots? If it's possible could be very cool


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