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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:20 am 
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klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:
Just to make this thread continues and hopefully usefull to others, I did buy the titan..... conclusion : I shouldn't have
Yes it does speed up things, but for the moment APG is not great in profiting from it. One can wonder whether spending 969 on other gear would have helped more.
The computer does feel faster in general, everything pops on the screen but it feels like the Titan is much more GPU then my poor i7-3930 can ever keep up with in combination with APG. The CPU is now the bottleneck.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21389



Next week i can test the new MacPro for a full day. I´ll give the 2 x 6 GB graphic a try . . :cool:

best, Klaus


If you can install APG on that machine, please do test APG.

The mac pro's XEONS will problably do most of the work.

Hope you have tools that show you how busy the cards are and can test the preview function with and without using GPU.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:51 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
They work like one card - very fast transfer . . . but i know what you mean . . :cool: "even" 6GB video RAM is definitely nice already . . . :p

Klaus


apg can only handle one GPU core. theres no difference using 2 GPU Cards or one Card with 2 GPU cores.
so you will test one GPU core and 6GB ...

but what you could do is using the 6 GB of the second GPU Card to install and run an 5-6 GB RAM-Disc.
On Windows side there are Tools to do such, dont know about macs...)
using thsi 6GB Ramdisc as temp or Cache dir should bring an boost too...

Liebe Grüße,
Georg


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Even worse, often APG uses only one single CPU core. Which would suggest there is also regarding CPU not much point in going multi-multi core. 24 core will not be 4 times faster then 6 cores...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:07 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
klausesser wrote:
They work like one card - very fast transfer . . . but i know what you mean . . :cool: "even" 6GB video RAM is definitely nice already . . . :p

Klaus

apg can only handle one GPU core. theres no difference using 2 GPU Cards or one Card with 2 GPU cores.
so you will test one GPU core and 6GB ...

but what you could do is using the 6 GB of the second GPU Card to install and run an 5-6 GB RAM-Disc.
On Windows side there are Tools to do such, dont know about macs...)
using thsi 6GB Ramdisc as temp or Cache dir should bring an boost too...

Liebe Grüße,
Georg



Hi Georg!
Well - thinking it over again i must say: my MacPro is good enough actually having the Quadro card running. My biggest panos are 6GPx - and my machine handles them perfectly and comfortably fast. It cost around 4000.-€ in 2008 and is runnning since then almost every day for about 16 hours. It´s two Xeons with 8 cores accompanied by 32GB RAM don´t get challenged much by APG at all.

It´s kind of a writing on the wall that the new MacPro wouldn´t come as a bargain - the one i will try is about 4500.-€ and represents the mid-range . .
The top model is about 10000.-€ . . . . :rolleyes:

Nevertheless the writing also tells that my machine´s life is limited by the EFI´s ability to take stronger hardware and the newest software. I give it one year - then i NEED to upgrade to a newer model.

I´m not really sure it will be a Mac again . .

BUT: when you see the new Pro: it´s absolutely cute . . . untill you lift it up: it´s heavy like a rock . . extremely silent even under full stress . .

The point is: what about peripheral gadgeds - given they´re needed. Of course an external disk definitely IS needed. I need an external audio-system (i use an Avid ProTools HD card) and an external video-system (i use a Blackmagic Decklink card) - so where can i stuck them in?

Of course there is a new external Protools HD Native Thunderbolt (starting at 4500.-€) and there is a new external box from Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4k series (starting at about 1000.-€). But i already have the hardware . .
Then there are or will be external housings for PCI cards - conected to the machine via Thunderbolt2 . . and also rather expensive . . well . . : i really think about building up an even faster PC than the one i have already and keep the cards and all . . . though i really hate working on Windows.

Of course: these are rather luxury-problems . . but i need to solve them nevertheless . . :cool:

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:29 am 
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Klaus,
If your biggest problem is the OS, then you are a lucky guy.
Well when the time comes for you to make the step to the other side. lol at what Tonymac is working on, there may be a PC that could be disguised as a hackingtos

Let's us know once you have put this new Macpro through its paces. I have friend in Melbourne who is getting one too, hopefully for him with all the good fruits

If you can run the PTGui. Speedtest that would be great

All the best from Perth
Henrik


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:17 pm 
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tived wrote:
Klaus,
If your biggest problem is the OS, then you are a lucky guy.
Well when the time comes for you to make the step to the other side. lol at what Tonymac is working on, there may be a PC that could be disguised as a hackingtos

Let's us know once you have put this new Macpro through its paces. I have friend in Melbourne who is getting one too, hopefully for him with all the good fruits

If you can run the PTGui. Speedtest that would be great

All the best from Perth
Henrik



Hi Henrik!

I´ll keep you informed! :)

Actually my son is installing a Hackintosh for me - but that´s quite complicate as i realize . . :cool: We´ll see.
He needs to find time enough - started his master in biotechnology on the university Aachen.

best to you, Klaus


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:35 pm 
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Hi Klaus,

When he is done can you send him to Amsterdam?

BTW, maybe something to consider, I moved my new workstation from my desk into a 2 m2 storageroom where it can run together with my NAS and other server. Boy is that so much more silent behind my desk where i work using a netbook and an external screen.
Using teamviewer I can remotely start, sleep and stop both machines and control them. Screenupdates are instant.

I would almost add Silence as another factor that will speed up the making of gigapixels ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:29 pm 
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Hans
Doesn't teamviewer run over the internet protocol and not over the local network?
Would Remote Desktop not be faster?

Henrik


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:45 pm 
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I have not noticed any difference in speed. RPD has the disadvantage of having a virtual GPU so the real GPu is not used/seen.

Although one can trick things by first starting autopano under teamviewer and then logging on with RDP under the same user.

RDP does have the benifit that you can have multiple people working on the same computer. Tihs is not standard in windows but if you replace the temsrvr.dll you can. I use that to have multiple photographers work on their tours of which I stitched the panoramas for.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:11 am 
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Klaus,

This is what I referred to the other day http://www.tonymacx86.com/retail-cases/ ... ast-5.html

Henrik

klausesser wrote:
tived wrote:
Klaus,
If your biggest problem is the OS, then you are a lucky guy.
Well when the time comes for you to make the step to the other side. lol at what Tonymac is working on, there may be a PC that could be disguised as a hackingtos

Let's us know once you have put this new Macpro through its paces. I have friend in Melbourne who is getting one too, hopefully for him with all the good fruits

If you can run the PTGui. Speedtest that would be great

All the best from Perth
Henrik



Hi Henrik!

I´ll keep you informed! :)

Actually my son is installing a Hackintosh for me - but that´s quite complicate as i realize . . :cool: We´ll see.
He needs to find time enough - started his master in biotechnology on the university Aachen.

best to you, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:40 pm 
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tived wrote:
Klaus,

This is what I referred to the other day http://www.tonymacx86.com/retail-cases/ ... ast-5.html

Henrik



Hey Henrik!

Yep - quite impressing!! :cool:

But when you think about the costs of teh components - processor, GPU for example it seems the
new Mac Pro isn´t THAT much overprized . . .

As it´s always with Macs: you need to regard the system as a whole! Finding a machine which REALLLY is comparable in ALL aspects to the Mac Pro you´ll find the difference in price isn´t THAT much people usually mean!

Of course there IS a diffenece - due to the advanced and actually unique design.

Let´s wait: it most likely will not take very long and we´ll see lots of - usually cheap-made - clones . . . =D

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Klaus,

The macpro is a single processor workstation system, you will see several of these with the 2011 CPU's, unfortunately the non-Xeon CPU's mainboards do not support beyond 64gb of ram.

Clones - the Mac is a clone, in a cute rubbish bin :-) sorry couldn't help myself :-)

Now show me a time of less the 2 minutes with the Macpro. I got my machine at stock speed at the moment and i'll wait till the full version of PTGui 10 is out which I think you will see great advantages when it comes to GPU support as well. Not sure where AGP is at, at the moment with this.

Henrik


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:03 pm 
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The SR-2 is getting a little long in the tooth, I built mine in 2010 - that's 4 years ago and though it has gone through several face-lifts I think I am done doing further changes to it.

Next we will see DDR4, SAS 12Gb/s, PCIe3 the later two is already here. The problem is the processors that they are locked.

also there were some issues with the first PCIe SSD cards, the SR-2 wouldn't boot with them. Not sure if this is still the case.

I still got a Tyan K8WE S2895 dual Opteron 285, with 16gb - year 2005, that I might make into a file server or NAS - this was once the state of the arts in computing when AMD was CPU King :-)

cheers
Henrik


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:40 pm 
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tived wrote:
The problem is the processors that they are locked.


And they are about 2500.- a piece as i read . . so you´d pay alone 5000.- for the processors . . .

In my eyes the cooperation of all devices in a machine is what gives processing speed in the end.
And here i think Apple has the advantage of getting all devices assembled optimally from ONE hand instead of
gathering devices from x points and assembling them without being able to find the optimal combination of devices from
many manufacturers and assemble them.

I guess we all know only too good how hard it can get sometimes to assemble an optimal working PC . . . =D

Most interesting to know is which way the app-makers use multiprocessing, multicores, multithreads, multiGPU or so.

Only when i have real hard facts about THAT i´m willing to assemble the appropriate machine using high-price components
like processors for 2500.- a piece . . . :cool:

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:29 pm 
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tived wrote:
Klaus,
The macpro is a single processor workstation system,


Using the newest and most advanced Xeon E5 Server processor working in an optimized environment . . .

tived wrote:
Clones - the Mac is a clone, in a cute rubbish bin :-) sorry couldn't help myself :-)


:p yeah . . i know :cool: If you can: put your hands around it somewhere . . . guess you will be lost then . . =D

tived wrote:
Now show me a time of less the 2 minutes with the Macpro. I got my machine at stock speed at the moment and i'll wait till the full version of PTGui 10 is out which I think you will see great advantages when it comes to GPU support as well. Not sure where AGP is at, at the moment with this.


I mean the point isn´t the speed alone in the end. It´s the overal-usability in a comfortable manner which attracts
me much more. The MacPro is: quiet! VERY quiet. It´s small - VERY small! It´s cute - VERY cute! ;)

Facts are: what everybody needs is a backup-system. Even todays you have it external. Using Thunderbolt2 makes it faster than ever.

For what else would you need internal PCI cards - aside from one or two very specialized professional/commercial user´s needs?
Video and Audio - that´s what specialized professional users need. Ok - that´s a problem then.

But on the other hand: also here external devices via Thunderbolt2 are the more flexible solution: you can connect them to other machines, to MacBooks, Notebooks and so on.

All in all i mean the new MacPro is an excellent and futuristic design.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:39 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
All in all i mean the new MacPro is an excellent and futuristic design.

best, Klaus

Apple Mac Pro: It's a death star, not a nappy bin, OK?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/14 ... e_mac_pro/


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:40 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:
All in all i mean the new MacPro is an excellent and futuristic design.

best, Klaus

Apple Mac Pro: It's a death star, not a nappy bin, OK?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/14 ... e_mac_pro/



:cool: ". . nor an SD card slot, which is just annoying." very funny speaking about a pro machine . . =D

"Initial concerns about the performance of 3D software such as Autodesk’s Maya seem to have abated, but
it’s clear that you can’t just assume that your existing apps will automatically benefit from the full power
of the Mac Pro’s hardware."

As it usually is with upgrafing workstations: assemble an actual PC-workstation and try to run your 2012 Maya . . . :cool:

Honestly: a good and informative report!

I needed to delay my own test-day fore a week, sorry.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:37 pm 
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for a week I had no idea what all these posts about the macpro had to do with the title of this thread. And the last few days I wondered why Claus called the article in theregister "a good and informative report"

But slowly it dawned to me that maybe the macpro touches on a subject that can summ up this whole discussion, the subject of the perfect combination of parts. It is all very nice to have brilliant components but if they don't work together in a brilliant way or produce a lot of heat and noise in a big ugly box that you do not want to have close to your desk, what's the point....

Yes, during this discussion, I have build a great machine, not too expensive and with great performance but I have to admit I think it would have been easier to buy a macpro and achieve the same performance with the added advantage of having a portable and silent machine that can do it's work next to my desk instead of the noisy and not really portable machine I have now. And if you count all the hours I had to put into building it, the macpro might not be so expensive....

_________________
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: RMS^3, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:27 pm 
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HansKeesom wrote:
But slowly it dawned to me that maybe the macpro touches on a subject that can summ up this whole discussion, the subject of the perfect combination of parts. It is all very nice to have brilliant components but if they don't work together in a brilliant way or produce a lot of heat and noise in a big ugly box that you do not want to have close to your desk, what's the point....


Yep! That´s the reasom why so many people prefer Macs. It by far not "all gold that glitters" :cool: - but it always good working compromises.

Yes, during this discussion, I have build a great machine, not too expensive and with great performance but I have to admit I think it would have been easier to buy a macpro and achieve the same performance with the added advantage of having a portable and silent machine that can do it's work next to my desk instead of the noisy and not really portable machine I have now. And if you count all the hours I had to put into building it, the macpro might not be so expensive....[/quote]

Yep the second ;) :cool:

Regarding many, many hours of researching, buying components, testing them and give them back . . for having a machine in the end which is equal to a Mac Pro, sucked your time while others were already using their Macs for earning money it´s worth to have a second look on the price-tags i mean!

I intensively got informations about workstations in the last two weeks - the price-tags were quite equal. Ok: the new Mac Pro in some amount is quite more expensive . . if you buy your RAM, HDs, SSDs and so from the Apple-store . . . (pro-users most likely don´t do that).

There are 3rd party vendors where you get Apple-certified RAM or other parts from . . i´m doing so for years. I even use a PC-graphic card in my MacPro . . .
after editing three words in the installer it works great.

I guess the new MacPro will do fine!

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:26 am 
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Imagine APG not chrashing once every hour, would that be possible on a Mac. To actually get work done with a 700 euro piece of s@#$%ware.


klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:
But slowly it dawned to me that maybe the macpro touches on a subject that can summ up this whole discussion, the subject of the perfect combination of parts. It is all very nice to have brilliant components but if they don't work together in a brilliant way or produce a lot of heat and noise in a big ugly box that you do not want to have close to your desk, what's the point....


Yep! That´s the reasom why so many people prefer Macs. It by far not "all gold that glitters" :cool: - but it always good working compromises.

Yes, during this discussion, I have build a great machine, not too expensive and with great performance but I have to admit I think it would have been easier to buy a macpro and achieve the same performance with the added advantage of having a portable and silent machine that can do it's work next to my desk instead of the noisy and not really portable machine I have now. And if you count all the hours I had to put into building it, the macpro might not be so expensive....


Yep the second ;) :cool:

Regarding many, many hours of researching, buying components, testing them and give them back . . for having a machine in the end which is equal to a Mac Pro, sucked your time while others were already using their Macs for earning money it´s worth to have a second look on the price-tags i mean!

I intensively got informations about workstations in the last two weeks - the price-tags were quite equal. Ok: the new Mac Pro in some amount is quite more expensive . . if you buy your RAM, HDs, SSDs and so from the Apple-store . . . (pro-users most likely don´t do that).

There are 3rd party vendors where you get Apple-certified RAM or other parts from . . i´m doing so for years. I even use a PC-graphic card in my MacPro . . .
after editing three words in the installer it works great.

I guess the new MacPro will do fine!

best, Klaus[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:34 am 
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Hans

Both platforms have issues a and will crash every now and then

What is happening to your system?

Henrik


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:44 am 
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Hi Henrik, the system itself is stable and so is almost all software on it. Just one pice of ****ware is chrashing all the time, APG..... No indication what went wrong, just APG is exploding....


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:32 am 
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Have you tried alternatives?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:36 am 
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tived wrote:
Have you tried alternatives?


Not serously yet, but it is about time to do so. With all the mallprogramming and strange decisions in the software they are pushing me out the door it seems


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Good news for all of us that are trying to balance speed and budget : Kolor might come with a version where the rendering runs in a seperate process. This should mean you can run it on a lower priority while editing at the same time. Will still cost a lot of memory, certainly if the editors leak memory like they do nowadays.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14149#p142681


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