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 Post subject: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:09 am 
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Manual for working with Autopano is really needed. What you call here „documentation“ is just an explanation what the buttons and menu items mean, not how to use them for achieving this or that. It is a shame for program which costs (Autopano Giga with VAT) the same amount of Euros like Lightroom and PS Elements together. If there is in Kolor company nobody capable of writing some 300-400 pages manual just to better sell their product and serve their customers, maybe some of its users could write it and earn some money with it. For Adobe products there are such authors.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Lacko wrote:
Manual for working with Autopano is really needed. What you call here „documentation“ is just an explanation what the buttons and menu items mean, not how to use them for achieving this or that.


I feel that those sort of questions are better handled via the forum...that way you can get a very precise and specific answer. No video tutorial or textual manaul can provide that.

Quote:
It is a shame for program which costs (Autopano Giga with VAT) the same amount of Euros like Lightroom and PS Elements together. If there is in Kolor company nobody capable of writing some 300-400 pages manual just to better sell their product and serve their customers, maybe some of its users could write it and earn some money with it. For Adobe products there are such authors.

The market for Kolor products is rather smaller and Adobe has many more employees.

You may always add to the Kolor Wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:47 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
I feel that those sort of questions are better handled via the forum...that way you can get a very precise and specific answer.


Yes, you can, or also not in the time when you really need it.
Sure there are people who buy a product with better documentation than check if the forum members are experienced enough and willing to help. Look at Kolor forum and you find many questions „How to do ...“ answered with another questions like „What camera have you used“, „What did you do“ or „Send me the images and I do it for you“ instead of writing the correct workflow what was asked for in the original question.

mediavets wrote:
The market for Kolor products is rather smaller and Adobe has many more employees.


It is the same market as for PTGui, so try to look at what say PTGui and Autopan documentations about e.g. masking and then you see the difference.
As for Adobe books, I think that their authors (like Scott Kelby or Martin Evening) are not Adobe employees. They just write books-manuals for Adobe products. The same can be done for Kolor products.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Lacko wrote:
mediavets wrote:
I feel that those sort of questions are better handled via the forum...that way you can get a very precise and specific answer.


Yes, you can, or also not in the time when you really need it.
Sure there are people who buy a product with better documentation than check if the forum members are experienced enough and willing to help. Look at Kolor forum and you find many questions „How to do ...“ answered with another questions like „What camera have you used“, „What did you do“ or „Send me the images and I do it for you“ instead of writing the correct workflow what was asked for in the original question.


If you are asked additional questions that's because we need that additional information to be able to answer your questions accurately.

I can assure you that there are forum members with sufficient experince who are willing to answer almost every question that arises, and typically very quickly too.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Lacko wrote:
mediavets wrote:
The market for Kolor products is rather smaller and Adobe has many more employees.


As for Adobe books, I think that their authors (like Scott Kelby or Martin Evening) are not Adobe employees. They just write books-manuals for Adobe products. The same can be done for Kolor products.


The market for speculative publications about Adobe products is massively larger than that for Kolor products.

Have you tried to approach a major publisher about writing a book about any Kolor product?

Software products tend to evolve more rapidly these days than in days of yore. Paper publications increasingly risk being obsolete before they get to market.

On-line documentation must be the way to go now?


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
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Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Lacko wrote:

Look at Kolor forum and you find many questions „How to do ...“ answered with another questions like „What camera have you used“, „What did you do“ or „Send me the images and I do it for you“ instead of writing the correct workflow what was asked for in the original question.


Please regard that the most of the questions can only be answered profoundly when the vital informations are available.

I guess you would not ask somebody "hey - i´m going to buy a car . . which one should i take?"

Or "i want to make a photograph on the Mt. Everest - what lens should i take?"


Lacko wrote:

mediavets wrote:
The market for Kolor products is rather smaller and Adobe has many more employees.

It is the same market as for PTGui, so try to look at what say PTGui and Autopan documentations about e.g. masking and then you see the difference.


I fully agree.

Klaus


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:48 am 
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I agree with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:46 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
Lacko wrote:
Manual for working with Autopano is really needed. What you call here „documentation“ is just an explanation what the buttons and menu items mean, not how to use them for achieving this or that.


I feel that those sort of questions are better handled via the forum...that way you can get a very precise and specific answer. No video tutorial or textual manaul can provide that.

Quote:
It is a shame for program which costs (Autopano Giga with VAT) the same amount of Euros like Lightroom and PS Elements together. If there is in Kolor company nobody capable of writing some 300-400 pages manual just to better sell their product and serve their customers, maybe some of its users could write it and earn some money with it. For Adobe products there are such authors.

The market for Kolor products is rather smaller and Adobe has many more employees.

You may always add to the Kolor Wiki.


Andrew - he´s abolutely right.

This forum is great, i´m in it for about 6 or 7 years now and i like it very much - and the people of course too,, who make the forum alive.

BUT: as a - sorry, Destiny - professional photographer/producer you many times sit on a job at night and suddenly have an issue . . which needs to be solved on the spot
for letting you go on with your work.
Posting a question here means loosing too much time to wait for a profound answer - if it comes anyway.

So looking into the "documentation" which Kolor provides is more kind of a joke than a help. I´m sure Kolor is aware of that - at least many, many users asked for more.

I understand that the market is not as big as the Adobe-market and real good handbooks are expensive to make. I´m in contact with a bunch of relevant pano-photographers/producers
around the world - every one of them sees the lack of a GOOD ducumentation as a major issue of APG/PTP . . . and many of them prefer PTGui just for the fact of providing a much better documentation and a - sorry to say that - forum of much more relevant knowledge. In the PTGui forum you most likely get answers from the developer himself - and this ansers usually are on he spot of your problem.

The PTGui-market isn´t bigger than the APG-market . . i guess it´s smaller. Nevertheless the documentation deserves it´s name . .

A profound and understandable documentation - understandable even for beginners - is the major issue of APG and PTP.

Klaus


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:42 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
I´m in contact with a bunch of relevant pano-photographers/producers
around the world - every one of them sees the lack of a GOOD documentation as a major issue of APG/PTP . . . and many of them prefer PTGui just for the fact of providing a much better documentation


PTGui may be more in need of such documentation as (I feel that) it can be very difficult to get to grips with in more 'advanced' modes.
.............

Anyway, who do you propose should write this documentation for Kolor software products?

Software developers do not (tend to) make good authors of documentation.

How would you accommodate the fact that software tends to evolve relatively rapidly compared to updating of printed documentation? If there's anything worse than no documentation it's probably outdated documentation.

Quote:
and a - sorry to say that - forum of much more relevant knowledge. In the PTGui forum you most likely get answers from the developer himself - and this ansers usually are on he spot of your problem.

Klaus


I cannot agree - I've (also) been a member of the 'PTGui support' Google group/email list for years, and in my opinion the Kolor forum is more active, more responsive, and more informative. Although they really know what they are talking about, there are very few active informed responders other than the developer himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Real manual
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:59 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
How would you accommodate the fact that software tends to evolve relatively rapidly compared to updating of printed documentation? If there's anything worse than no documentation it's probably outdated documentation.



I didn´t talk about a printed documentation - i talk about a precise and constantly updated online-documentation.
The documentation of AGP which is online actually seems somewhat outdated in parts, when i had a look at it some weeks ago.

mediavets wrote:
I've (also) been a member of the 'PTGui support' Google group/email list for years, and in my opinion the Kolor forum is more active, more responsive, and more informative.


Well - it´s always a bit questionable to compare those things directly. But when did you look at the PTGui forum the last time? I got some help and some vital explanations of details i never got from Kolor.

I guess one of the problems might be Kolor´s diversification. Meanwhile they have so many products to take care of - including somewhat delicate ;) head-controllers . . .

Keeping a clear line of documentations for all of these gadgets and applications i guess must be a real big effort.

Klaus


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