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 Post subject: 3d virtual tour
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Hello people,

I would like to ask something about 3d and virtual tours 360°. Look this for example: http://boundlessadvantages.com/virtualhome/BoundlessVRhome.html

I see that I can make everything with Panotour pro. But I need sphere panoramas :o
I don't know nothing about software for creating 3d. Can somebody give me some advise, please.
I would like to know how can that be done and what software I can use.
For example, architects always use AutoCAD and .dwg files can be imported in all 3D software. But can that software create a spheric panorama from the 3D model?
Tell me what software is good for that. Than I need just find somebody who knows make 3D models and he can create for me spheric panos that I can use than to create virtual tours for real estates in construction.
I'm working on an advertising site (classified) and I have already integrated in adds the virtual tour view for users who have one. I will offer also to create virtual tours for a simbolic price or completly free if they send me good spheric panos for their property. So, why not offer this also for buildings under construction. It would be very nice!

Thank you for your attention!
Regards
Toni


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:28 pm 
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You can stitch your photos and make them into panoramas with AutoPano GIga or AutoPano Pro that can be bought here:

http://www.kolor.com/buy/software

-Max

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Hi..

Actually, architects don't always use AutoCAD at all.. AutoCad is primary a 2D vector drawing tool and only since 2012 has it really expended into more 3D options.. There are issues with using AutoCAD for this which are many.. You really need 3D Studio Max to take advantage of its superior rendering engine and lighting systems.. There are many 3D apps that would be far more suitable than AC for this purpose from Maya, CINEMA 4D but these are high end apps.. Lightwave is an easy to use app but you need to use a modelling tool to create your assets or buy them, but some are free..

You are walking into a whole new world of technology, skills and understanding with 3D.... You also need a very good workstation to be able to create such output...

I look forward to seeing what you come up with...

Destiny..

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:28 am 
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Max, I have autopano giga and I stich photos that I make :)
But I am talking about creating 3D spherical panoramas of something that not exist. I can't take photo of something unexisting. It must be drawn. Destiny understood well...


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:51 am 
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Hi Destiny,

first of all, it is gald to text with you. I sent you an email few days ago (about compass). No replay from you. Did you recive it?

Thank you for advise about 3D software. Lightwave is something new to me...
But in fact, I don't have time now to learn 3D drawing. I would like a lot to learn that in future and I would than take the best like Maya or Cinema 4D.
At the moment I would like to find people that already know to make nice 3D and cooperate with them. What I don't know is next:

1) Does that software already have integrated a solution to create virtual tours? Or they need to use something like Panotour Pro?
2) Once a 3D model of an apartment or house is created with that software, how to make spherical panos to use with Panotour Pro? Is it possible? It would need a function to determine a point of view for create a spherical pano from that point. I don't know how they do that. I am just exploring how they do that... Do you know more about?
3) I know what is CAD. But architects always use it for create projects. For 3D it used other software. But every new building have a 2D drawing made in CAD. And it can help to create a 3D model, expecialy if it is possible to import the DWG file in that other software. Maybe Maya have the best functions for that...same company (Autodesk).

BTW, I have ASUS G73 SW (ROG-Republic Of Gamers) with i7 quad core, 16 GB RAM DDR5, SSD Corsair Force GT series + HDD Sata3 750 GB, Graphic card nVidia GeForce 1.5 GB...so more than enough for all that software :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:37 am 
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Hi.. Yes, I received your email.. I will fix up the xml code over the weekend if I get time.. I receive heaps of emails to fix stuff up for users using PTP..

With the 3D software, you can create a 3D scene, then using a selected camera capture images within the 3D scene and then use APG to stitch them. I do not think they export to a sphere, you need to research this, but Brice3D will.. Using the 3D software, you can create a path, and attached a camera to it. You can then get the camera to follow the path using the timeline.. Its not a quick process at all.. and of course, the media created would be a video not a pano..

Other options, you can use code and images to create a 3D Interactive Scene like this.. http://gallery.3dcity.de/frontend/ You can click on any location on the floor to goto..

Good luck..

Destiny..

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:29 am 
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Hello people,
I found the answer I was searching for. Here is a tutorial on how to create full spherical panorama in 3D Max.
http://www.pixelsonic.com/2011/04/360%C2%B0-in-3ds-max-with-vray-2/

Other is converting spherical pano to cube faces and viceversa. For that the best I found is Pano2VR. I can easy create a photographic full sphere in Autopano Giga, than transform it to cube faces with mentioned software and than make in PS what I want and recreate a sphere in Pano2VR again. Once the pano is ready import to Panotour Pro and make the tour.

I must check how works Pano2VR with cube faces made in some 3D software. If the sphere pano made that way is nice it can be also a nice solution. I hoped that somebody here already work with that and can tell me good and bad things and what is important to think about before start anything.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:42 am 
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Thank you Destiny,

I will be very happy to recive your email. Kolor stuff told me the compass will be integrated in PTP2. Than will be easy :)

Brice3D is great, if it really can export to sphere, that is the right tool for me. But still need to research before buy and start learning. BTW, your link doesn't work for me. It's just loading...I was waiting for 10 minutes at least.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:10 am 
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Brice 3D is free... ;)

Not sure why you cannot access the url.. Its works for me..

Destiny...

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:56 am 
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I found out why. Don't work in Chrome for me. Don't know why. I'm looking at the gallery in Firefox. I understand now what you were talking about. I saw that in the past. Very nice!


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:22 am 
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osmica wrote:
Hi Destiny,

first of all, it is gald to text with you. I sent you an email few days ago (about compass). No replay from you. Did you recive it?

Thank you for advise about 3D software. Lightwave is something new to me...
But in fact, I don't have time now to learn 3D drawing. I would like a lot to learn that in future and I would than take the best like Maya or Cinema 4D.
At the moment I would like to find people that already know to make nice 3D and cooperate with them. What I don't know is next:

1) Does that software already have integrated a solution to create virtual tours? Or they need to use something like Panotour Pro?
2) Once a 3D model of an apartment or house is created with that software, how to make spherical panos to use with Panotour Pro? Is it possible? It would need a function to determine a point of view for create a spherical pano from that point. I don't know how they do that. I am just exploring how they do that... Do you know more about?
3) I know what is CAD. But architects always use it for create projects. For 3D it used other software. But every new building have a 2D drawing made in CAD. And it can help to create a 3D model, expecialy if it is possible to import the DWG file in that other software. Maybe Maya have the best functions for that...same company (Autodesk).

BTW, I have ASUS G73 SW (ROG-Republic Of Gamers) with i7 quad core, 16 GB RAM DDR5, SSD Corsair Force GT series + HDD Sata3 750 GB, Graphic card nVidia GeForce 1.5 GB...so more than enough for all that software :)

Hi Toni!

Sorry: but i suggest to forget this for the moment and first get some skills and knowledge about what this all means: it´s a VERY complex theme and usually people working on this have studied it for years - i know a lot of them and work with them in cooperation doing photography, movie and 3D-animation.

The problem is: building 3D models for your purpose is VERY expensive. You surely can get it cheap also - but you will not be able to use it for doing commercial work and earning money.

Architects most unlikely will provide you their construction-files: there are lots of legal points to take in account.

Learning Maya i can say from my own experiences will take you at least half a year to only learn the very basics. To really get grip on it i guess more likely will take about a year and more.

I ihave a feel that you don´t know by far how the road looks like you want to start going . . ;)

I like your optimism - but i also know the reality.

Gather all informations you can get and look for a training-facility to learn about 3D and what´s connected with it.

Professionally made 3D-animations for real estate have a high standard these days - see the trailer:

http://koebogen.info/impressionen/

Done by a prominent company in Duesselsorf having an own render-farm of about 1024 processors.
The price for the trailer could buy you a real luxorious italian or english sports car having a horse or a cat on the hood . . . :cool:

I made the panorama-tour.

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Thu May 02, 2013 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Hi Klauss,

Nice to speak with you again.
You missed probably some messages here :)
I'm not interesed in trailers like you shown me. I am looking to do tours like this: http://boundlessadvantages.com/virtualh … Rhome.html
for new constructions and sell properties off plan. There are many investors that are paying for 3D models like that. So it is not an aditional cost for them. The guys who do that need only to create spherical panos for the interior, like in this tutorial is explained for 3Dmax. [url]http://www.pixelsonic.com/2011/04/360%C[/url] … th-vray-2/
Or they can create cubic faces that I can later convert to spherical panos with Pano2VR. I think it can work also. That is something not to complicated.
Than I can use those panos to make a virtual tour with PTP in half hour and I can do that for the price of advertising on my classified website (like 20€). Do you understand me better, now?

I'm just researching what software for 3D modeling can make what I need and than see what software use that guys, to explain them easyer what I need and how to do that.
For investors who order 3D models it will be great to have the possibility to upload it and view like a tour on the web. It's also very good for my site, for big number of visits. At the momet investors get only pictures of the 3D models from different angles :)

Best regards
Toni


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:26 pm 
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osmica wrote:
Do you understand me better, now?

Not at all.

I´m sorry, Toni - both links don´t work and from a producer´s viewpoint i have no idea what you´re talking about. Hope you do!? ;):cool:

Sorry again and good luck, Klaus

besides: my example didn´t mean the trailer only - it also meant the 3D-models of the buildings, their surrounding and the redering.

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Last edited by klausesser on Thu May 02, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:11 am 
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I understand, but it is a very high end design. Links are not working for me also. It seams I made something wrong. Here are again:

http://boundlessadvantages.com/virtualhome/BoundlessVRhome.html
http://www.pixelsonic.com/2011/04/360%C2%B0-in-3ds-max-with-vray-2/


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:13 am 
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emm.. The first link has nothing to do with 3D.. However, the second does.. You really are entering a world of complications.. I would be one of the first to support 3D since this is my main area of expertise and knowledge. Therefore I am qualified to say; I would suggest backing off from this approach.. 3D Studio Max is not for the fainthearted and it is expensive.. V-Ray is affordable but its useless without a major 3D app like Max or Maya..

Adding 3D content into a photographed pano Tour, stitched using APG and followed by PTP to create your Tour is far better and a more doable approch.. I have added heaps of 3D media into a Tour using Flash, webGL, HTML5, Javascript and Jquery... Its all doable...

I am still a bit lost to what you are trying to do and why.. It doesn't make sense to go with this approach..

Destiny..

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:39 am 
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Destiny wrote:
I am still a bit lost to what you are trying to do and why.. It doesn't make sense to go with this approach..

Destiny..

As Iunderstand it he wants to make virtual tours of buildings not yet built usimg rendered 3D models.

I believe some 3D CAD programs offer virtual 'fly-though' to cetae somewhat similar effects?

What his approach would need if a virtual robotic panohead/camera system.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:49 am 
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mediavets wrote:
What his approach would need if a virtual robotic panohead/camera system.

Much - very much - skills, the appropriate applications, some thousand bucks to buy them and the knowledge and experience to handle them.

From what i read nothing of all that seems to be in reach already.

A head/camera system is definitely of less importance here - given i really understand the goal . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Fri May 03, 2013 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:54 am 
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In that case, Lightwave is the best option.. A path can be created very easy.. but you cannot interact with it. It will create a video walk through... You can buy 3D city models for LW too.. Not very expensvie.. There are many 3D city model available...

Destiny..



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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Sorry, this links are correct. Those are virtual tours created from 3d model not photos of reality. So to do that with PTP, I need that the creators of some 3D models give me sphere panos or cubic faces. I found it can be done with 3D max but I repeat people, I don't intend to learn to do that myself. There are already people who knows that and already creating 3D models for real estate investors. If they create with their software sphere panos or cube faces of the same 3D model, I can make a tour with that and investors can advertise it on my site. I will just create tours, not the 3D model.
At the moment investors get only images of the 3D model and if they want anything else, they need to have a web site at least. As 3D software have the option to create full sphere panos of the models, why not use it to create tours with PTP.

http://boundlessadvantages.com/vr-interactive-3d-office.html
http://boundlessadvantages.com/vr-interactive-3d-house.html

And can anybody tell me what software I can use to easy create maps like this used in the tours. I don't need so much details, it can be simpler also. I want just to easy vreate maps to integrate in m tours. Sometimes I have nice pdf maps from the architect and I can use them with just a little retouch in PS. SOmetimes I need to create it myself.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Yes.. the links work now... 3D Virtual Tours... But even if you do not do it yourself and freelance it out... Since the software is so expensive and the high skills needed to create the models and 3D tours, it would cost HEAPS to get your cubic faces.. I have Max and Maya, and I have played with this option but it took too long..

Destiny...

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:13 pm 
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osmica wrote:
Sorry, this links are correct. Those are virtual tours created from 3d model not photos of reality. So to do that with PTP, I need that the creators of some 3D models give me sphere panos or cubic faces. I found it can be done with 3D max but I repeat people, I don't intend to learn to do that myself. There are already people who knows that and already creating 3D models for real estate investors. If they create with their software sphere panos or cube faces of the same 3D model, I can make a tour with that and investors can advertise it on my site. I will just create tours, not the 3D model.
At the moment investors get only images of the 3D model and if they want anything else, they need to have a web site at least. As 3D software have the option to create full sphere panos of the models, why not use it to create tours with PTP.

http://boundlessadvantages.com/vr-interactive-3d-office.html
http://boundlessadvantages.com/vr-interactive-3d-house.html

And can anybody tell me what software I can use to easy create maps like this used in the tours. I don't need so much details, it can be simpler also. I want just to easy vreate maps to integrate in m tours. Sometimes I have nice pdf maps from the architect and I can use them with just a little retouch in PS. SOmetimes I need to create it myself.

Sorry again - but this kind of visualisation looks like from the ´80ies, made with Amiga or Atari. Clients these days expect modern and more perfect looks.
The renderings are very basic - looks like shaders were used instead of raytracing or more advanced techniques.

How comes you think architects of the objects might give you CAD-datas for free? You need to be hired by the investor to make the visualisation to make the architect provide teh CAD data - but most unlikely they would hire you for money until you can show at least average quality and modern-style visualisations.

Again: sorry to say that - i don´t want to lecture you or to be pessimistic. I just see how the business is like these days.

best and good luck, Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Well Klauss, you don't live in my country. It is not like in Germany. To give opinions about that you need to know what are investors asking for. I belive in your country the situation is really as you told but that doesn't mean it is the same all arround the world. I am in the real estate business last few yers and worked for few companies who invested few milions euro each. I started recently as real estate agent. So I know a lot of investors, builders, agents and other. And I know what they like and what they want. This in the links will be great for them. That is not film industry, investors want to invest just a little to present better a real estate they are constructing and try to sell it before it is finished if possible. This tours are more than enough. That is for regular people that are looking to buy a property. They don't need a high quality. A common ground plan like in my images are usually enough for this purpose and few 3D images like here: http://www.prolink.hr/3d_modeli.php
or video animation like here: http://www.prolink.hr/3d_animacija.php
And this tours are much better!

Destiny and Klauss, I know investors that paid for models like in my links. But they didn't get the oportunity to use them full. They get just images from different angles. So, I don't want to talk about how it is dificult to make the 3D model. There are people who knows that and it's their job. My intersting is about how dificult or easy is to create cube faces (or sphere panos) from that models and what software can do that.

When investors pay the architect for a project, he must give him the DWG files (CAD). What do you think?? Never heard an architect don't want to give it to the investor. I have many CAD files from almost all buildings I was working on. We are talking about regular houses in most cases. That are not buildings of 300 meters high for Dubai. I don't understand you really.
I am talking from my experience in real estate. For example I am an investor that order a project for a house from a architect studio. When they are working on, they send me PDF files but if I ask them the DWG files, they also send it to me. That is my project! I paid it. That is my material. Then I can give it to somebody else to make me a nice 3D model, if they don't offer that service. What's the problem?
If I can also get oportunity to advertise my house on a classified with a virtual tour of the same 3D model, better. I will order that also.

And that is my only interest, to create virtual tours from the cube faces that the investors will give me from their 3D model. And I can display them on my classified. They will be very happy.

I am just trying to research and understand how is easy or difficult to create cube faces or sphere panos for a proffesional that already knows to do the 3D model. I see all of them are creating just images or a video presentation like in my links. But nobody create tours. Why? Is it so difficult to create panos that can be used to create the tour?






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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:12 pm 
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I found now this on the web: http://dimension.w3haus.co.uk/

Creating the panoramic image from a 3D Model
3ds Studio Max has a “Panorama Render” option under Utilities, you should use sphere mode to use with our viewer. In our Gallery we have a sample render of one of our offices.
We will be adding more information on how to do this on Maya and other 3D render programs. If you know how to do this on other programs, send us the information (if possible with screen captures) and we will put them here!

Below is a sample panoramic image rendered from a 3D model:




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osmica... I totally understand your views and the direction you are taking with this.. I am simply pointing out the pitfalls with this... I have attempted to create 3D Tours myself but it jut took far too long.. I must admit my main issue was my iMac.. I did not create an of my 3D models, I found many 3D models online for free to test... The main issue I had was getting the lighting systems and render-maps right.. It can take hours to render only to find out that its not right.. When I visited Cutting Edge in Brisbane, they have a whole room dedicated to processors that can render a lot quicker than I can.. They basically told me that I was wasting my time.. Often my iMac would lock up. But I read that you are going to rely on others to create your 3D scenes for you.. Its not a cheap exercise.. Who ever does it, has to have a really good work station and expensive software.. At one time I used 3D Studio VIz which is a purpose made software for this... They do not make it anymore which says something.. No demand for 3D scenes perhaps...

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=3d+studio+viz&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=edOGUefBOsSIkQXZq4D4Aw&sqi=2&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1464&bih=860

I can see huge advantages in creating 3D scenes for a modern architectural design.., but only if you have the skills and money to do it yourself.. Your budget will defiantly blow out if you rely on others to do it for you..

I look forward in seeing what you come up with.. I can provide some help with 3D assets sourcing.. There are many good modellers that can create unique models for you fairly cheap..

Destiny...
BTW.. sorry.. still haven't done your xml code yet.. :(

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Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 7734
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
osmica wrote:
And that is my only interest, to create virtual tours from the cube faces that the investors will give me from their 3D model. And I can display them on my classified. They will be very happy.

Let´s see whether i get you right:

Creating a 3D-Scene you can make a virtual camera and use that to make a viortual panorama - just like ttzhe ones we use to shoot in real.

That´s possible - i did it several times using Cinema 4D

Once you have the models and built the scene it´s no big thing making a virtual VR-camera in Cinema 4D or Maya or Max or whatever.

The point is to get the modelling done appropriately and then get the rendering done in an acceptable quality.

Believe me: having never done that before you´ll need VERY MUCH time to learn all that - or you need to spend MUCH money for the right specialists.
Not to speak from spending some thousands bucks for buying the software and the hardware to run it. Imagine: you spend about 3-5000.-€ for Max or Maya . . and
you´ll not even be able to create and render a simple ball . . . :D:cool:

Ok - i pull out of this thread. You need to make experiences on your own . . that´s the best way to learn how things work :cool:

best and good luck, Klaus

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Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel


Last edited by klausesser on Sun May 05, 2013 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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