klausesser wrote:Ok - if you would use a custom-style preset: where would you get it from? How would you generate a pattern for your individual setup to feed it to the controller?
gkaefer wrote:but saving the manual created pattern on the TC device (in form of xml ;-) ) and giving the template a useful name you ever can come back and choose your saved "pattern" to do the "same" pano on a new scene (without the need to remember the exact values you used the last time)
FelixAutopano wrote:klausesser wrote:Ok - if you would use a custom-style preset: where would you get it from? How would you generate a pattern for your individual setup to feed it to the controller?
I'll take PW presets for Tokina 10mm and it's done. There are 4 of them:
4x-30° + 4x30°
6x -30° + 6x30°
6x 0° + Z + N (zenith and nadir ;-))
6x -10° + 1x60°
You are right, I don't need theese presets. BUT only in the case that TC calculates the preset RIGHT for my 10mm FE for 360x180 (at least 360x165 without the footprint).
I'll make a few test with different diagonal angle for 10mm.
FelixAutopano wrote:My lens is here - http://www.tokinalens.com/tokina/products/atx/atx107afdxfisheye/
I reprogrammed newly the TC controller and
at 10mm (168° diagonal) it begins on 0°
- -
klausesser wrote:"The Tokina AT-X 107 NH is a fish-eye lens that gives the digital photographer an approximate 180° field of view"
from Tokina.
That means: it´s supposed to have 180° diagonally. So why did you set 168°?
best, Klaus
klausesser wrote:When Josef started designing the controller he was going to adopt the preset-concept from PW. I stopped him. I told him about my experiences using it in real life producing panos . . . and i could convince him to go a way which definitely is much more clever under pano-production aspects.
So: blame it to me that the TC doesn´t provide "custom-style presets" . .
FelixAutopano wrote:klausesser wrote:"The Tokina AT-X 107 NH is a fish-eye lens that gives the digital photographer an approximate 180° field of view"
from Tokina.
That means: it´s supposed to have 180° diagonally. So why did you set 168°?
best, Klaus
http://lenshero.com/lens/Tokina-AT-X-107-DX-10-17mm-f3.5-4.5-Canon-ef-lens
or better here
http://www.hdrlabs.com/tools/panocalc.html
FelixAutopano wrote:But for required results from TC calculated preset I need less than 180°, yet less than 168°.
klausesser wrote:Yoe need what the lens provides natively!
FelixAutopano wrote:klausesser wrote:Yoe need what the lens provides natively!
I've entered angle what the lens provides natively. The angle is THAT what it covers for real not what the manufacturer has on its web.
On 10mm it is hard to estimate the real angle, but I'm sure that is NOT 180°. On 17mm I clearly see that diagonal angle is little over 90°.
Don't you tell us, that the TC knows that Tokina has on its website diagonal angle 180° and thus calculates non-real-world preset.
FelixAutopano wrote:I've entered angle what the lens provides natively. .
FelixAutopano wrote:Why the TC DOESN'T calculate with the submitted angle?!
FelixAutopano wrote:But I must again write that TC calculates the preset WRONG for this wide fisheye.
klausesser wrote:FelixAutopano wrote:But I must again write that TC calculates the preset WRONG for this wide fisheye.
Could you be precise, please? What do you mean in detail? Can you prove your statement mathematically?
The TC calculates on the base of informations YOU give it as well as on the base of the common use of terms.
So: either Tokina is lying about the lenses values or you don´t know what you´re talking of. To be honest: i don´t think Tokina is lying . . .
Again: i´m using the TC for years now with two very different heads: Merlin and Panoneed. I NEVER had an error with a mis-calculation of a shooting.
Neither using a Nikon 10,5mm fisheye nor using a Canon 15mm fisheye nor using a Nikon 16mm fisheye - nor using 20, 35, 50, 85, 105, 200, 300, 400 and 600mm
rectilinear lenses.
Afaik there are more than 200 TCs in use around the world. Did someone of the users complain about non-precise calculations?
Not to my knowledge.
P.S.: it´s commonly known that the Merlins very large base makes it a bad choice for being used with fisheyes. Better use a manual head providing a small footprint.
klausesser wrote:Could you be precise, please? What do you mean in detail? Can you prove your statement mathematically?
klausesser wrote:So: either Tokina is lying about the lenses values or you don´t know what you´re talking of. To be honest: i don´t think
Tokina is lying . . .
FelixAutopano wrote:I don't say a word against TC for rectilinear lenses. But it has some reserves by using with the fisheye lenses.
FelixAutopano wrote:I've measured the horizontal view angle (one point at left - the same point at right and PW showed 128.8° and from known sensor sizes I've counted the diagonal 159.5°. All rough.
For this value TC calculates preset: 6 shots at -9° + 6 shots at +1 + zentih. But I have much better presets: 4 or 6 at -30°° + 4 or 6 at +30°. Eight or twelve against thirteen with stupid -9° and +1° rows.
mediavets wrote:Well, although I don't have any hands-on experience of the T&C controller as you are so keen to remind me, I wouldn't be happy with 6-around at zero degrees, and a +90 degrees zenith if that's what the T&C would calculate as the only 'optimal' pattern for a Nikkor 10.5mm FE on a Nikon DX sensor body.
mediavets wrote:P.S.: it´s commonly known that the Merlins very large base makes it a bad choice for being used with fisheyes. Better use a manual head providing a small footprint.
True - but irrelevant to this dicussion, the T&C claims to be able to shoot spherical panos using fisheye lenses automatically calculating an 'optimal' shooting pattern.
mediavets wrote:As I understand it, the issue in question is simply that the user concerned doesn't believe that the pattern calculated by the T&C is 'optimal ' for his needs. And he wishes that the T&C also offered the 'flexibility' of supporting Papywizard-compatible custom presets for shooting patterns.
I doubt there would be any issue with the shooting patterns calculated by the T&C for shooting spherical panos using rectilinear lenses of any focal length.
mediavets wrote:FelixAutopano wrote:I've measured the horizontal view angle (one point at left - the same point at right and PW showed 128.8° and from known sensor sizes I've counted the diagonal 159.5°. All rough.
For this value TC calculates preset: 6 shots at -9° + 6 shots at +1 + zentih. But I have much better presets: 4 or 6 at -30°° + 4 or 6 at +30°. Eight or twelve against thirteen with stupid -9° and +1° rows.
Wow - now that is really weird.
klausesser wrote:mediavets wrote:FelixAutopano wrote:I've measured the horizontal view angle (one point at left - the same point at right and PW showed 128.8° and from known sensor sizes I've counted the diagonal 159.5°. All rough.
For this value TC calculates preset: 6 shots at -9° + 6 shots at +1 + zentih. But I have much better presets: 4 or 6 at -30°° + 4 or 6 at +30°. Eight or twelve against thirteen with stupid -9° and +1° rows.
Wow - now that is really weird.
Weird? Yes - at least . .:cool:
best, Klaus
PS: on my manual head i use the same "pattern" as on the Panoneed/TC combination: 6 shots @-12° and 1 Zenith.
Result: http://360impressions.de/ZuerichBar.html
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