Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment  

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tomashpl
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Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by tomashpl » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:28 pm

I have been using Panotour 1.8 for a long time and it wasn't perfect, but in comparision with Panotour Pro 2.0 and above, it was great piece of software.

I bougth the Panotour Pro 2.0 about year ago and I can't imagine how is this possible to make this application so buggy and unintuitive.

List of bugs and issues is incrementing every day I have to use P2, but the most annoying ones are listed below:

[*] Floor Plan plugin - if "Pause autorotation at the opening" is checked (and it is checked as default) autorotation starts everytime I close the plan, even if it is off in tour settings.
[*] Floor Plan plugin - if "Multi-level floor plans" option is checked the dimensions of plan are recalculated, because of fixed positioned bar at the top of it. It cannot be closed, so if I want to use "multi-level floor plan" I have to fight with dimensions of the plan to get accurate horizontal/vertical proportion. "The floor plan are resized into area container" option is totally useless in this case.
[*] Radar adjustment - I don't know who made a decision to change the method of radar adjustment on the floor plan, but it's totally unpractical. In PT1.8 it wasn't perfect, but it was so simple: click on the hotspot, hold control key, drag the radar to correct position, release control key, done. In PT2.0 I have to click on each panorama, then click on the compass and then, which is the dumbest and most unintuitive thing I have ever seen - adjust compass without any review on the floor plan. My tours are very large often - with 100 or more panoramas in one tour. Primary - it's uncomfortable to do this with this amount of panoramas, secondary - I want to see how the radar is adjusted on the plan BEFORE I generate the tour. Now I just see spot dots on the plan and nothing useful except them.
[*] Custom view adjustment - I can't adjust hotspot's custom view using FOV, YAW and PITCH values, which was possible in Panotour 1.8. Now, if I set the "custom view" I can only drag panorama with mouse, but I can't set it precisely.
[*] Working area - every time I try to organize the panoramas in working area, merge or unmerge the groups, EVERY TIME one or more panoramas drop out of the screen and then is no solution to get them back. Groups? Don't kidding me! I have a sample group with 50 panoramas and it ALWAYS is in two-column box. I can't resize it, I can't do anything with it then, but then I unmerge it, it... just look at the begining of this point... It makes me so mad that I just want to throw my monitor through the window sometimes.

Please, do something with this things. For me, Panotour 2.0 and even 2.3.1 should be in beta version with all of this issues and mistakes, not in final version which costs 400€...
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Robin Le
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Robin Le » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:18 pm

@Thomashpl, I'm glad to read your report, I feel that i'm not the only one being pissed by having such bugs in a complete version of software. Its really unproductive when it crashes every 20min :(

Hope the developers listen to us, cheers mate.
Robin

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Destiny
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Destiny » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:13 am

Hi..

Floor Plan Auto Rotate after a Floor Plan is closed even though auto rotation is not checked as an option..
Bug Confirmed.. It should not do that..

Yes.. Floor Plan Plugin is painful.. Its in needs a lot of rethinking.. I would like to see the Box resize according to the Floor Plan size like a Shadow Box. At the moment, if you set it to %, which is really the only option for viewing on a Device, if one Floor Plan is much smaller than anthers, it will sit to to the top left with empty space right and bottom since the Position does not work.. The way around this would be to make all the floor plans the same size. I have also never liked the fact you cannot edit the top menu colours of mouse over.. The effect is not nice.. Like here.. Light grey with the dark.. almost kills the Title text..
http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... rPlan.html
Also, often the drop down will go behind the Floor Plan graphic.. This test was made with Beta2 but its the same with the Full Version. Being a Beta was acceptable to have issues, but PTP V2 is way past this now.. Therefore it should be fixed..

Radar.. I have to disagree here.. I personally feel its great.. Do you set your Radar using the 3D View..?

Custom View... Sorry, but I have to disagree here too. I believe that this feature is much better than the old V1.8. I can make up a Video of How To if you are not understanding this feature. Are you using the 3D View to set the Custom View.. You have an icon to set it.. You can also do fine adjustments too..

Working Area?? Not sure about this issue.. The Working Main Area had many issues in the early days, but to me it much better now. I have never made a Tour with lots of panos.. There are short cut keys with options but I forget which they are... A new feature is at top left to Zoom In/Out and to set the main window to 100% is useful..

I realise that bugs and issues can be a pain but you need to understand a main issue.. During the Alpha and Beta testing period, many people wanted it NOW.. To use with their paid projects. The thing was, it was not ready.. I feel it would have been very unfair to say Ok, here it is Beta #, free to use for paid projects. No one wanted a Water Mark over the project so Kolor was under pressure to release it, but it had to be paid version otherwise whats the point..

I guess this would be a great excuse during the end of the Beta testing but not such a good excuse now since its gone through a few releases. Most bugs have been found by users of this software by using it, which are being constantly fixed...

Not trying to find an excuse since I feel that the Story Boarding of PTP was done very poorly.. It seems to me like it during the early days, PTP V2 was made of a lot of bits and ideas and then put together to see if it worked.. Missing the Pano Specific features was a major let down.. Some of which have now been resolved but not all...

I personally feel that PTP V2 is a huge advancement from V1.8 in many ways but in many other ways its gone backwards and I also feel its not like French Cheese at all but rather Swish Cheese, full of holes..

Destiny..

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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by tomashpl » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:14 am

Are you using the 3D View to set the Custom View

What is a "3D View"? I can't found any option with this name in the PTP2 nor in the documentation of it...

I have never made a Tour with lots of panos.

But I did. The largest tour I was made from about 450 panos. That was Oil Tanker's and Oil Platform's decks. This tours was very important and thay had to be very, very precise. Now, with this set of settings I totally don't know how to set custiom view for hotspot, where I can set pitch with 0,01 precision.

Another bug I found today: I have a previously generated tour, where I have to change one little thing. I opened a kpt file, do, what i had to do, and then click "build". And what? Tour generates all of photos from the beginning, totally ignoring this one fact, that this tour was generated and still is in a proper path. I try all of the options like "do not generate tiles" for all of panoramas with "default" or "Generate all panoramas except those marked as "don't generate"" in build tab, but PTP don't give a s**t about that.

And now I'm sitting and waiting for PTP is done with generating tiles for 36 panoramas. It lasts 1 hour at this moment, and progress is on 67%. It's dramatically slow, but my panos are not too big, just 8944px * 4472px and 5-6 MB.

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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Destiny » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:37 am

Hi... Sorry, wrong term but since you have used V1.8 I was guessing you knew what the 3D view was.. That was its name in V1.8.. Now its called the Preview.

All you need to do is rotate this view using your mouse to your required view, even using the fine settings then press Set Default View..

Setting the radar with compass is a bit different but its way better than the old way...

Destiny...
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tomashpl
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by tomashpl » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:00 am

I think you didn't even try to do what I just describe. :P

I talk about custom view for hotspot, not for panorama. These options are not available in this case. If I want to set custom view for pano, there they are, but not, if I want to set "hotspot view from pano1 to pano2".

And I do not agree with you. Setting up the radar on floorplan is much more difficult without any previev. Imagine that you have to add 100-300 hotspots on the floorplan and set radar for them. Imagine that the floorplan is just a file with white background and nothing else on it. Imagine that you have to add these hotspots as precisely as you can. In PTP18 I can set 2 hotspots and then adjust radars while watching on them. Now I have to add spot, then adjust radar and then I HAVE TO generate or regenerate tour and then I HAVE TO reload tour in web browser, open floorplan and click on the hotspot to see that radar is too far to the left/right according to the second one. I don't know what it is, but I'm sure it is not a "better way".
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Cliquetsy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:57 am

tomashpl wrote:
Another bug I found today: I have a previously generated tour, where I have to change one little thing. I opened a kpt file, do, what i had to do, and then click "build". And what? Tour generates all of photos from the beginning, totally ignoring this one fact, that this tour was generated and still is in a proper path. I try all of the options like "do not generate tiles" for all of panoramas with "default" or "Generate all panoramas except those marked as "don't generate"" in build tab, but PTP don't give a s**t about that.

And now I'm sitting and waiting for PTP is done with generating tiles for 36 panoramas. It lasts 1 hour at this moment, and progress is on 67%. It's dramatically slow, but my panos are not too big, just 8944px * 4472px and 5-6 MB.


When you build a tour and are "done" with it, do you build then save, or save then build?
If you save then build, PTP won't save that the tour has been built, and will build what it would consider is "missing" the next time.

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tomashpl
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by tomashpl » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:56 pm

When you build a tour and are "done" with it, do you build then save, or save then build?
If you save then build, PTP won't save that the tour has been built, and will build what it would consider is "missing" the next time.


Thank You, I didn't know that. :)
Probably that was the source of the problem, because - in fact - I did saves and builds randomly.

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Morgan
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Morgan » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:35 am

Hello All,

I already took the times to explain my disappointment about Panotour in the past, and not just one time.

The fact is, unless it's not true anymore, this software is not made by the same team than Autopano. As I use both of them, I can easily believe in it ;-)

But let's be frank and realistic, Destiny, please, I know how much time and efforts you put to test and develop your skills in this panorama/VT domain and I don't doubt you like it (as much as me at least), but we have to say without any doubt that if autopano is a masterpiece for stitching pictures, autopano is still in Beta version.

How many times they released a new version that last..........less than a week, with a reason behind like "sorry we fixed a bug but it created a new one for many of you....".
Seriously, even it's not possible to test all the features of a new release, I would like to remind Kolor team, without giving any lesson (it's not the point) that monkey test software exist to automat the software test at least for the main features. For me, releasing a new version that has not been tested for the major computer platform to see if a crash occurred is really not serious stuff.

How many times since the very first version 2, we all experience a very poor interface quality and bugs along many features?

One more important thing. I'm (like many others) working with this software for earning money, not for playing nor spending good times. So I would love the nice advisers to consider that saying panotour is still in Beta it's really not acceptable, especially when it's about to pay this amount of money.

Now, personally, if I have to pay 2 or 3 times more for a non buggy software, I will pay it. But it's all about result. I can decide to pay or not for a software, but when I pay I need the software not bug so often.

Last but not least, when I see a project like Dubai360, I can tell with no doubt Kolor team is more than skillful enough to produce great stuff, so let's convert that in the software we pay for.

Sincerely.

Morgan

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benji33
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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by benji33 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:11 am

Hi Morgan,
Yes of course Panotour has still many issues.
The team is made up of 3 people and you can easily understand that some all possible tests are not always done.
As I have already mentioned in some topics, some cross features and plugins can generated up to 1000 export possibilities. We do our best to stabilize the program while adding new features over time. This is a job that is not simple.
For this reason, THANKS to all Panotour users for their patience when a bug or regression appears.
This is why the team is trying to deal quickly with problems detected on the support or the forum to offer you the best service and the best user experience possible.
Benjamin

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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Morgan » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:22 am

Dear Benjamin,

I do agree and I do understand. The problem is, if I may, we have paid for that ;-)
And more importantly, when we work with your software and produce VT, when there is a bug, we cannot say the same to our customers.... That's the reason why there are Beta version and commercial version.

As you may know, I'm still super supportive and really happy to help when it's possible, but I wish this software will improve faster. Now you are, from my point of view, at the top level of stitching software, but to produce VT we MUST use another software like Panotour.

Sincerely.

Morgan

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Re: Panotour 2.0 and above are a big dissapointment

by Destiny » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:46 am

Yes.. PTP V2 has many issues, and I would love to see features fixed and added.. I would also question so many things from facilitating the 'User Template Building' to the GUI, which is in serious need of a professional GUI artist. But in saying that.. I also have empathy for those three amazing programers working on this huge task.. In comparison between V1.8.. Well, there isn't one.. These two software applications are worlds apart.. PTP V2 even now with all its quirks and bugs is still world class software, which is quite amazing since its still being developed..

I feel that if more forward planning and story-boarding was done from the very beginning, as well as some consultation with users who might have asked basic questions like.. "Do you really expect it to snow inside a home" meaning.. Why is the Snow not pano specific, which would then lead to many other questions about pano specific features.... I feel that many issues which are causing problems might not have been major issues if more forward planning was done.. Its like building a house and leaving out the foundation footings and then trying to put them in afterwards.. Easy to do from the beginning but really hard to do it after the house built.. Then expecting people to pay for the home and live in it while all the fixing was being carried out.. :rolleyes:

Basic features like the Gallery with Thumbs.. That same GUI graphic suggesting that there IS a Thumb Gallery with the Gallery, has been there since Alpha versions. But its still coming..

Its seems to be that there are two major software applications being developed by Kolor.. APG and PTP.. and then there is the 'other' software. To me, I would question Kolor for imposing sooo much pressure on just three people on this major software PTP, which is really Kolors jewel in the bunch.. This is evident since most of the chatting on the forum is about PTP.. Therefore, without PTP, this forum would be just about dead!...

Destiny..


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