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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Hi, I have a job where I am doing a tour of a transportable display home, the home is outside the factory and some of the views through the windows are not that appealing. Just after some advise. Is there an easy way to replace the window view in some of the rooms? Also any advise on removing the camera reflections from mirrors?
Thanks in advance

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:35 pm 
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signmaster wrote:
Hi, I have a job where I am doing a tour of a transportable display home, the home is outside the factory and some of the views through the windows are not that appealing. Just after some advise. Is there an easy way to replace the window view in some of the rooms? Also any advise on removing the camera reflections from mirrors?
Thanks in advance

Steve



Problem one: HDR/tonemapping.
Problem two: Photoshop.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Easiest way for both is photoshop.

For the windows go somewhere nice, not a pub, scenery wise and shoot a 360.

Create the stitched image, it should be the same format at the existing interior. Open the stitched interior, Open the stitched exterior. Copy the exterior image, paste it as a new layer in photoshop, then use the pen tool to mask the new windows in...remembering it here's a tint to the window add a similar tint opacity to make it look real...fine tune the nodes using the cursor keys.

Getting rid of your reflections....photoshop

Here's an example of both


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:26 pm 
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Wetsnapper wrote:
Easiest way for both is photoshop.
For the windows go somewhere nice, not a pub, scenery wise and shoot a 360.
Here's an example of both



Can´t be serious, can you? ;) :cool:

Klaus


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:41 pm 
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signmaster wrote:
Hi, I have a job where I am doing a tour of a transportable display home, the home is outside the factory and some of the views through the windows are not that appealing. Just after some advise. Is there an easy way to replace the window view in some of the rooms? Also any advise on removing the camera reflections from mirrors?
Thanks in advance

Steve



Hi Steve!

In detail:

shoot bracketed. I suggest at least 3 steps @2EV in between (depends on which camera you use) or 5 steps @1EV in between.
These shots you import into Photomatix, Oloneo or another HDR-application and process them to HDR-->Tonemapping.
The tonemapping will give you a well-balanced impression of indoor AND outdoor - nevertheless how dark it is indoors and how bright it is outdoors.

I use it all the time:
http://www.rheinterrasse-duesseldorf.de ... eTour.html very bright light outside
http://www.360impressions.de/Tourk21.html bright light outside, becoming darker, artifical light inside, balanced by bracketing.

Regarding mirrors: http://www.360impressions.de/ToillettenPano

best, Klaus

PS: don´t make it too well-balanced . . . that´s usually looking unnatural.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:19 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
Wetsnapper wrote:
Easiest way for both is photoshop.
For the windows go somewhere nice, not a pub, scenery wise and shoot a 360.
Here's an example of both



Can´t be serious, can you? ;) :cool:

Klaus


The OP said "the views through the windows are not that appealing" HDR won't help.

How else could you get something that looks "realistic" if you have windows all the way around? :0)

It's never going to look perfect, but what the client wants, they get.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:10 pm 
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Wetsnapper wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Wetsnapper wrote:
Easiest way for both is photoshop.
For the windows go somewhere nice, not a pub, scenery wise and shoot a 360.
Here's an example of both



Can´t be serious, can you? ;) :cool:

Klaus


The OP said "the views through the windows are not that appealing" HDR won't help.


Whatever "appealing" could mean, right?

I interpreted his words i a way as he meant that it´s too bright and washed out outside the windows. But you´re right: some more precise definition of what he meant would have been quite helpful . . ;-)

The point is: to compose a "surrounding" outside an object isn´t trivial at all . . You used two different resolutions in your example, which is obvious on the first looking at it - and the reflections in the chrome fenders parts show that you shot it inside a hall. You´d better had the mirroring details blurred . . and used a surrounding with a light that matches the light on the boat . . .

If these things are not done perfectly they tend to look somewhat cheap, sorry.

Wetsnapper wrote:
How else could you get something that looks "realistic" if you have windows all the way around? :0)


By using the exposure in a way it´s not too bright/washed-out outsides abd not too dark inside: with
bracketing.

I didn´t understand it that he meant composing a different surrounding - but: who nows . . maybe i´m mistaking.

Wetsnapper wrote:
It's never going to look perfect, but what the client wants, they get.


Oh - that depends on the clients . . it can be done very perfectly. But that needs some composing-skills and is expensive.

I did it several times - hell of a work, but nobody realized it as fake. Aside from the clients - when they realized the costs. =D :cool:

Klaus


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:35 pm 
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It was the factory setting "the home is outside the factory" that got me thinking about the lack of appeal. :)

The exterior on my example was a comp from a number of different photos I had on my SSD, none of which were shot for the purpose or panoramic. Just regular shots I had to make an exterior from in the middle of winter :). I'll be shooting new exteriors of that boat and others for stock now the weather has turned for the better ;)

It would be much easier if boats went on land, I could have just gone down the road and shot a pano for the purpose.

The interior was the example I was showing the photoshop technique I used - the one with the windows ;) - rather than the exterior.

The hall lighting being as it was, unless I went to a planet with 60 different suns revolving around is always going to look out of place...It's the nature of the beast. I don't like doing it because, as you say, it does look fake unless serious time and money is spent. Some clients are happy to show their boats at a show, others aren't.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:17 am 
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Hi Steve... Actually in my opinion Wetsnapper suggestion is just about on the money.. Reference to HDR and Tone Mapping has no meaning at all in this situation...

I have achieved some nice results with a caravan mob, but for me it was a matter of them making up dummy windows which we took out to a location just a few minutes away and shot some images through 4 styles of windows.. It was just winnows cut into a 2 metre caravan panel with all the hardware and curtains fitted... It did not take long for them to make the mock windows or to shoot some nice images through the windows. I then cropped out the windows, which had nice glass reflections onto a nice view. I just cannot find them to show you.. I then used Photoshop and the Lattice Warp feature to place the new window over the old ones since I used a normal prime so there was distortion difference.. There are quicker and cheaper ways to achieve this but to achieve a realistic result I found this way easy and effective. You could just select the glass part of the window and add a blur or make them a bit opaque. To make it a bit easier, I actually exported my pano as cube faces then put it all back together as pano.. As long as no windows are cropped into a different face, it works fine...

To remove mirror reflections, I would suggest pointing your camera at the mirror at an angle where you cannot see the camera. Then crop the mirror out and past it over the mirror in the pano.. You can use the Lattice Warp to make any fine adjustments since the pano I am assuming was shot using a fishy.. Its actually a lot easier if a normal prime was used..

Not sure that this post should be placed at PTP V2... Perhaps better to go into the APG posts...

Destiny...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:46 am 
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Destiny wrote:
To make it a bit easier, I actually exported my pano as cube faces then put it all back together as pano.. As long as no windows are cropped into a different face, it works fine...

Destiny...


The Pano 2VR Patch tool allow you to extract a 2D portion of any pano.

http://ggnome.com/wiki/Pano2VR_-_Patch_Tool


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:56 am 
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Did not think of other software options.... Good idea Andrew.. I was actually just thinking about APG, it has some options to add a patch too... I have not had any success in using it, perhaps the new version will have more features.. You can manipulate your pano in all kinds of positions and use an image to pacha but... not sure how it will go.. One thing APG is very good at and that is blending..

Destiny..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
Hi Steve... Actually in my opinion Wetsnapper suggestion is just about on the money.. Reference to HDR and Tone Mapping has no meaning at all in this situation...


I thought I was going mad for a bit, thank you :)

Destiny wrote:
To make it a bit easier, I actually exported my pano as cube faces then put it all back together as pano.. As long as no windows are cropped into a different face, it works fine...


This was where the idea of creating a separate pano that could be used over and over again came in.

If, say all of your panos are created facing the same direction, the background - outside- pano can just be copied and pasted into each interior pano and masked off, so only the windows are visible. The background should match up on all the interiors. No need for warping, converting to cubes or aligning horizons etc etc. As you said as long as the windows don't jump the gap you're fine...If they do you can set up guides so they go out at exactly the same point at each side of the pano. Another advantage is you're just working with one image, not 4 different ones.

Yet another advantage is that if you need to put a different background in, for any reason (a real pano, once I've shot one in my example), it's just a copy and paste job which takes a few seconds.

For getting my kit out of refections, I've also found converting to cube faces is the way forward for any PS work, so much easier to see what you're actually working on, rather than trying to join the curves in a spherical image. If a shadow from a tripod goes across the join you have to remember to look at the spherical pano again afterwards and make sure there are no ugly patches/mismatches. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Hi.. I had tried the second pano of an outdoor sceen and croped out the windows in the main pano... to replace the view but.. It did not look right due to having no glass.. I have tried to reproduce a transparent piece of glass to put as a second layer, with the pano scene on the background layer but.... it just did not look right.. A bit of blur in the background helped... but its still on option.. It still looks better than having some factory or other yuck features visible through the windows....

With overlapping shadows into other cube faces, I found if you OffSett your pano in Photoshop and save it as a new pano, then put it back into APG or use the krpano droplet, you can fix the entire shadow.. Once all the features have been fixed, put back into Photoshop and reset the OffSet to as it was shot.. You do not have to do this but I like to have it as it was shot..

Where ever way windows are edited, consideration on time has to be made apparent to any customers since it can take a lot of time to get it to look real..

Destiny..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Adjusting the opacity of the "outside" layer sometimes helps (but obviously it depends what's outside)...It can also keep in some of the reflections


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:34 am 
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Wetsnapper wrote:
Destiny wrote:
Hi Steve... Actually in my opinion Wetsnapper suggestion is just about on the money.. Reference to HDR and Tone Mapping has no meaning at all in this situation...


I thought I was going mad for a bit, thank you :)



Maybe it´s wise to hear from Steve the meaning of "not so appealing".
I interpreted it as a washed-out look to the surrounding landscape or whatever. That´s why i suggested HDR.

If he had said he wanted to *change* the background behind the windows . . . i of course wouldn´t have suggested HDR . . =D

For doing it the right way you need
1) an attractive background.
2) the same image-resolution for the background as the foreground has.
3) borders of the foreground-object which don´t look like cut out with a scissor ;)
4) a light-characteristic which matches the light of the foreground.

After all: a faked background which on the first glimpse looks like a faked background isn´t apealing at all.

Only after you told it i realized that the blue stripes in the cabin´s ceiling are supposed to be windows wth a blue sky - i thought they were massive plastic.

best, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:50 am 
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Steve!

The most convenient way to make the background in the case you need it to change the look through a window in your pano: make a second pano.
Shoot a sphere with the same resolution from a nice landscape or so - which looks good with the indoor stuff. Put both equirectangulars
on layers in Photoshop and work on the windows for looking through them to the background.

You´ll get the proper perspective when you look to the outside because it´s also an equirectangular image.

You can look for the correct vanishing-point in the APG-editor for making it real precise in the composing.

I prefer this way over the way doing it on cubefaces.

After all it´s a lot of work. Tell your client he´ll need to pay a good price for it! Don´t let them underestimate your efforts.

best and good luck, Klaus


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:03 am 
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Thanks so much for all the great ideas. When I arrived to do the shoot almost all the windows had venetian blinds so I took the easy option and adjusted all the blinds so there was no or very little outdoor view. I hope the client is happy with the result. I am yet to work on the mirror reelections.
Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:36 pm 
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signmaster wrote:
When I arrived to do the shoot almost all the windows had venetian blinds so I took the easy option and adjusted all the blinds so there was no or very little outdoor view.
Steve


That's the other way of doing it ;)


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