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Destiny
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3D

by Destiny » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:23 am

Hi... A 3D object is basically an illusion when viewed on a computer created via light, shading and shadows.. This is just a fun test but it has a serious side.. I have been working on adding 3D object within a Virtual Tour, but obviously just the illusion of 3D.. Here is just a test but its is still quite effective..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... 3D/3D.html

Destiny...

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:43 am

Hey..

Just testing the value of interactive 3D in a pano.. I have done this kind of thing before but not where it can be viewed using a handheld device and Different browsers with all the new security protocols..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... Stuff.html

Of particular interest would be the Full Screen of the 360/3D object.. Using my Mac with Mavericks it great... but... Love to hear from you, if it views ok..

The 3D object is interactive, so can rotate and pan using the mouse, but with my Samsun Note, I just used my finger and pinch to zoom...

Destiny..

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Re: 3D

by jschrader » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:17 am

Works on ipad2.
To be honest, having the object in a player in a window is 80s.
If at all it has to float inside the pano.

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:12 pm

Hi Destiny,
I have to say, I don't like negative comments which can take the wind out of the sails of development work. The 80's comment is total BS.

Implementing rotational 3D in a Virtual Tour is something my clients would value.

Imagine walking around a showroom online, then clicking on a product and being able to view it in all angles. I have created rotational 3D with Dental Chairs and Autoclaves, giving my clients the ability to view the products online. I have even done this in Stereoscopic rotational 3D for the fashion and auto industry's. It's a natural progression to include this in Virtual tours.

Opening up the product in a window overlay is a better solution, because your controlling the viewers focus onto the product, away from the virtual tour. From a marketing standpoint, this is what your trying to achieve. Embedding the rotation of the product as part of the virtual tour would not work, and would be impractical. A compromise would be to create the overlay without the "Box", this would have the effect of zooming the product to the foreground (like a popup effect).

Keep up the good work.
Regards
J

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Re: 3D

by klausesser » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:09 pm

John Roberts wrote:Hi Destiny,
I have to say, I don't like negative comments which can take the wind out of the sails of development work. The 80's comment is total BS.


I think that´s kind of a misunderstanding. Nothing to do with "take the wind out of the sails of development work" - that´s nonsense, sorry.
It must be possible to have and a critical view on things, don´t you think?
I agree to Juergen - it´s very old-fashioned. "Development work" is far ahead these days.

John Roberts wrote:I have even done this in Stereoscopic rotational 3D for the fashion and auto industry's. It's a natural progression to include this in Virtual tours.


Would you mind showing some work you did this way?

best, Klaus

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:05 pm

And this coming from the biggest BS Putdown Artist on this forum...

Thank you John for your positive and supportive comments.. I have learnt to ignore negativity and put it down to ignorance.

The fact remains that many people have send me a PM asking how to do it since they feel they would have value in using it. There is NOTHING in our world that it 2D in the real since of the word. We live in a 3D world, where EVERYTHING is 3D. 2D is a feature created by us to describe and illustrate. It is accepted as 2D but in reality 2D is just a visual thing. Which is a contradiction since 3D displayed on a computer is just an illusion too, created by light, shading and tones to create Form.. But it represent in more accurate detail our true 3D world.

This tread was just meant as an ideas thread devoted to the use of 3D interactive media within a Virtual Tour. Also to test interactive 3D media that can work on all platforms. I will be posting up some Javascript 3D objects, which uses cutting edge programming technologies to showcase.. Some 3D objects will be Laser Scanned and some will be CAD developed. Some technologies such as WEBGL, which can be used to showcase 3D, are still struggling to with 3D objects that have been 3D scanned due to the file size, as a result of too many polygons... But new and better technologies are being developed which I will continue to test.

Destiny..


klausesser wrote:
John Roberts wrote:Hi Destiny,
I have to say, I don't like negative comments which can take the wind out of the sails of development work. The 80's comment is total BS.


I think that´s kind of a misunderstanding. Nothing to do with "take the wind out of the sails of development work" - that´s nonsense, sorry.
It must be possible to have and a critical view on things, don´t you think?

I agree to Juergen - it´s very old-fashioned. "Development work" is far ahead these days.

John Roberts wrote:I have even done this in Stereoscopic rotational 3D for the fashion and auto industry's. It's a natural progression to include this in Virtual tours.


Would you mind showing some work you did this way?

best, Klaus

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:39 am

Hello Klaus,

These examples were trial prototypes I completed for clients over a year and a half ago (not refined or updated):
2D, Anaglyph and SBS in HD

http://27.33.137.47/Rotational3D/Rotati ... shion.html

http://27.33.137.47/Auto/Auto2D3DSelector.html

The "Auto" links use an old system I tested 2 years ago, and is very slow and cumbersome to control.
I tried to develop the system with x&y axis control, whilst keeping the overall size to less than 3 Megabytes.
So the images are over processed, and limited to 3 tiers, on a 20 image rotation per tier.
Increasing the number of images would smooth out the movement, but obviously increase the size.
The demo's are best viewed on an Ipad, unless your viewing SBS 3D, where you need your PC hooked up to a 3D TV (LG Circular Polarized/Passive for best results).

As I said earlier, implementing rotational 3D from within the Virtual tour would be a natural progression, and I believe Destiny is on the right track with her demo. I like her implementation of it.

Regards
J

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:30 am

It's the concept that's important John and you have provided many options... It's good to that others have the same open minded vision as I have I.. I have been testing this kind of 3D interactive media for a couple of years. The feature that made me progress a lot quicker in order to showcase my media within a Virtual Tour was provided by Gerald at Kolor.. I did not have a way to showcase my media in the way I really wanted to .. So I used a Shadow Box for a while but now PTP V2 has the Kolor Box. This to me is on the the most useful and exciting features of PTP V2.. Its an awesome feature.. Now I can do all kinds of thing a lot easier.. The idea is to open the Viewer where the 3D product would be able to be interacted with and where other information can be added such as the materials and all specifications of the products. There could also be a link to PayPal or other forms of ordering and payment..

I have now added a 3D CAD object and later I will add a 3D Scanned object.. =D

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... Stuff.html

I really do not understand how this can be a media of the 80's, which to me is so narrow minded and stated without understanding or thought. Major car manufactures have 360 views of their cars and B&H one of the worlds biggest camera retails have 3D and 360 objects on their web site and so do many more.. These are serious companies and are certainly not providing old 80's media.. Many big companies are working on awesome cutting edge software to showcase 3D objects in a very nice way..

John, just for info, you can also add a 3D PDF into a PDF plugin, unfortunately, it has to be viewed within the Acrobat Reader to interact with it.. But there are companies working on this issue so it can be viewed within a Web Browser..

Destiny..

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:45 am

I recently posted up a 3D Scanned object, but the material map takes a few more seconds to load.. 3D Scanners are getting cheaper and the data can also be used to print the object using a 3D Printer, which have dropped in prince sooo much these past few years.. We printed an object modelled using ZBrush a few years ago which was just awesome..

Just click on the info icon... =D
http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/3D-J ... oject.html

I also created a 360 Car, but there is really no point in doing that kind of thing since it takes too long to do and the car manufactures have made a better job of it..

Destiny..

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:54 am

This is also Javascript, and in reality 3D... I have it working so now to find a nice use for it... I was thinking of a pano on auto rotate behind looking through a window on a rainy day..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/Spec ... yDay2.html

Destiny...

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:14 am

I mean really.. What a naive statement to suggest this technology is 80's.. Even more incredible is the display of ignorance in supporting the notion..

To me its simply awesome technology.. Whether it be a sequence of image, which can also be made into rows as well as column to see all views but this 3D from B&H is Javascript based...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... amera.html

Destiny...

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:36 am

Hi Destiny,
Wow, Maybe3d is very impressive. Rotational 3D has come a long way in the last couple of years.

http://www.maybe3d.com/Public/Info.aspx

Any idea how they're scanning the products?

I use a series of camera's (12 in total) mounted on an adjustable rig I designed & engineered.
The rig allows me to adjust for the size of the object, and capture in stereoscopic 3D at a maximum of 6 tiers.
All this is setup in my Greenscreen photographic studio, with full lighting rig.
I can scan a product in one rotation, taking less than 5 minutes, then run a series of batch files to process the model in around 30 minutes.

I'd love to know how those guys are doing it, and also noticed that their models load fast (Flash though, mine are native jpg and work on all platforms).
Regards
J

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:16 pm

Destiny wrote:This is also Javascript, and in reality 3D... I have it working so now to find a nice use for it... I was thinking of a pano on auto rotate behind looking through a window on a rainy day..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/Spec ... yDay2.html

Destiny...



Now I love the Rain Effect, very nice indeed Destiny.

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:25 pm

Destiny wrote:I recently posted up a 3D Scanned object, but the material map takes a few more seconds to load.. 3D Scanners are getting cheaper and the data can also be used to print the object using a 3D Printer, which have dropped in prince sooo much these past few years.. We printed an object modelled using ZBrush a few years ago which was just awesome..

Just click on the info icon... =D
http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/3D-J ... oject.html

I also created a 360 Car, but there is really no point in doing that kind of thing since it takes too long to do and the car manufactures have made a better job of it..

Destiny..



Hi Destiny,
This one looks great (really nice photography), but when I load the product (Statue?) it locks up IE10. I re-loaded in Chrome and it works fine.
The loading time for the Statue takes a bit too long (the tour loaded quickly though), but I understand this could be a number of external factors.
Regards
J

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Re: 3D

by klausesser » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:27 pm

Destiny wrote:I mean really.. What a naive statement to suggest this technology is 80's.. Even more incredible is the display of ignorance in supporting the notion..


Destiny - would you mind to calm dow a bit and stop insulting others to be ignorant, narrow minded and so on . . . and learn to deal with sober critical comments
instead.
You take each kind of criticism extremely personal and you react on each kind of criticism extremely squeamish.
Did you already paint a sniper´s mark on a picture of me again because i agreed to Juergen´s sober remark?

No need to answer.

Klaus

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:34 pm

I took it for granted that the Maybe3d was JS... Mine is JavaScipt so it works on ANY platform.. Great on my Samsung Note.. Thats interesting.. I checked out Maybe3d a long time ago but thought I could do better.. They are very expensive too..

I made this up in Flash using Sophie 3D.. You can add those interactive feature using this app too...

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/3Dbul ... ltour.html

Destiny...

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Re: 3D

by klausesser » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:36 pm

John Roberts wrote:Hello Klaus,

These examples were trial prototypes I completed for clients over a year and a half ago (not refined or updated):
2D, Anaglyph and SBS in HD

http://27.33.137.47/Rotational3D/Rotati ... shion.html

http://27.33.137.47/Auto/Auto2D3DSelector.html

The "Auto" links use an old system I tested 2 years ago, and is very slow and cumbersome to control.
I tried to develop the system with x&y axis control, whilst keeping the overall size to less than 3 Megabytes.
So the images are over processed, and limited to 3 tiers, on a 20 image rotation per tier.
Increasing the number of images would smooth out the movement, but obviously increase the size.
The demo's are best viewed on an Ipad, unless your viewing SBS 3D, where you need your PC hooked up to a 3D TV (LG Circular Polarized/Passive for best results).

As I said earlier, implementing rotational 3D from within the Virtual tour would be a natural progression, and I believe Destiny is on the right track with her demo. I like her implementation of it.

Regards
J


Hi John!

Sorry - we seem to have rather different perceptions of what we´re talking about ;)

best and good luck with your project, Klaus

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:42 pm

Don't you dare patronise me.. Your the one that continues to feel they can say what they want without empathy.. Your interpretation of being constructive is actually highly rude with putdowns. If I were to so the same with your media you would become highly personal and rude. This is looking like one of those threads where YOU destroy yet AGIAIN..

Destiny..

klausesser wrote:
Destiny wrote:I mean really.. What a naive statement to suggest this technology is 80's.. Even more incredible is the display of ignorance in supporting the notion..


Destiny - would you mind to calm dow a bit and stop insulting others to be ignorant, narrow minded and so on . . . and learn to deal with sober critical comments
instead.
You take each kind of criticism extremely personal and you react on each kind of criticism extremely squeamish.
Did you already paint a sniper´s mark on a picture of me again because i agreed to Juergen´s sober remark?

No need to answer.

Klaus

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm

Destiny wrote:It's the concept that's important John and you have provided many options... It's good to that others have the same open minded vision as I have I.. I have been testing this kind of 3D interactive media for a couple of years. The feature that made me progress a lot quicker in order to showcase my media within a Virtual Tour was provided by Gerald at Kolor.. I did not have a way to showcase my media in the way I really wanted to .. So I used a Shadow Box for a while but now PTP V2 has the Kolor Box. This to me is on the the most useful and exciting features of PTP V2.. Its an awesome feature.. Now I can do all kinds of thing a lot easier.. The idea is to open the Viewer where the 3D product would be able to be interacted with and where other information can be added such as the materials and all specifications of the products. There could also be a link to PayPal or other forms of ordering and payment..

I have now added a 3D CAD object and later I will add a 3D Scanned object.. =D

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/PTPV ... Stuff.html

I really do not understand how this can be a media of the 80's, which to me is so narrow minded and stated without understanding or thought. Major car manufactures have 360 views of their cars and B&H one of the worlds biggest camera retails have 3D and 360 objects on their web site and so do many more.. These are serious companies and are certainly not providing old 80's media.. Many big companies are working on awesome cutting edge software to showcase 3D objects in a very nice way..

John, just for info, you can also add a 3D PDF into a PDF plugin, unfortunately, it has to be viewed within the Acrobat Reader to interact with it.. But there are companies working on this issue so it can be viewed within a Web Browser..

Destiny..


Destiny,
Whenever I develop, as a priority I always develop for cross platorm compatibility. Meaning support for smartphones, tablets (Android, IOS ...) Mac and PC.
HTML5 is now the key for me. I'm not sure if the Acrobat reader (even as a browser plugin) would ever work with IOS. Apple are a bunch of A@$es when it comes to supporting browser plugins.
J

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:48 pm

Destiny wrote:I took it for granted that the Maybe3d was JS... Mine is JavaScipt so it works on ANY platform.. Great on my Samsung Note.. Thats interesting.. I checked out Maybe3d a long time ago but thought I could do better.. They are very expensive too..

I made this up in Flash using Sophie 3D.. You can add those interactive feature using this app too...

http://members.westnet.com.au/dps/3Dbul ... ltour.html

Destiny...


Nicely done Destiny. That works fine.

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:58 pm

I agree about the Acrobat Reader John. Its never really going to do what I want for so many reason... I guess thats why Adobe gave up on it and sold the 3D part to Tetra4D.. Its a great media for what it does but its limited for the reason it cannot be viewed using a web browser.. My husband did some amazing things using it but there was no interest in it.. We have have a lot more interest in the 3D Javascript options within a 360 Tour.. I will dig out some other 3D media test I have done which might inspire you.. A lot of media test I do are really only to test the merit if they work.. There is no actual value in them and they are often basic.. But my vision is that one day to add them into a Virtual Tour in one for or other.. I did a few test in this Tour, not sure if you have seen it or not.. I used a multitudes of ideas and software...
There is a Gold Necklace and and little Vase.. http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/Face ... entre.html

Both these items sold within a week of this Tour being posted up.. One person bought the Gold Necklace from Japan.. As seen in the 360.. Not sure about the Pot but the owner said it sold quickly..

Destiny..

John Roberts wrote:Destiny,
Whenever I develop, as a priority I always develop for cross platorm compatibility. Meaning support for smartphones, tablets (Android, IOS ...) Mac and PC.
HTML5 is now the key for me. I'm not sure if the Acrobat reader (even as a browser plugin) would ever work with IOS. Apple are a bunch of A@$es when it comes to supporting browser plugins.
J

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:02 pm

I agree about the Acrobat Reader John. Its never really going to do what I want for so many reason... I guess thats why Adobe gave up on it and sold the 3D part to Tetra4D.. Its a great media for what it does but its limited for the reason it cannot be viewed using a web browser.. My husband did some amazing things using it but there was no interest in it.. We have have a lot more interest in the 3D Javascript options within a 360 Tour.. I will dig out some other 3D media test I have done which might inspire you.. A lot of media test I do are really only to test the merit if they work.. There is no actual value in them and they are often basic.. But my vision is that one day to add them into a Virtual Tour in one for or other.. I did a few test in this Tour, not sure if you have seen it or not.. I used a multitudes of ideas and software...
There is a Gold Necklace and and little Vase.. http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/Face ... entre.html

Both these items sold within a week of this Tour being posted up.. One person bought the Gold Necklace from Japan.. As seen in the 360.. Not sure about the Pot but the owner said it sold quickly..
Destiny wrote:
John Roberts wrote:Destiny,
Whenever I develop, as a priority I always develop for cross platorm compatibility. Meaning support for smartphones, tablets (Android, IOS ...) Mac and PC.
HTML5 is now the key for me. I'm not sure if the Acrobat reader (even as a browser plugin) would ever work with IOS. Apple are a bunch of A@$es when it comes to supporting browser plugins.
J
Last edited by Destiny on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3D

by Destiny » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:05 pm

Yes it works well, but sad to say its Flash so I have moved away from it.. I am of your mindset and feel any media has to work on all platforms.. I am following in on the path of HTML5 JS and JQuery.. WebGL might have an option in time but its not working too well at the moment..

Destiny..

John Roberts wrote:
Nicely done Destiny. That works fine.

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Re: 3D

by klausesser » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:44 pm

John Roberts wrote:Implementing rotational 3D in a Virtual Tour is something my clients would value.


Sure - but are they willing to pay an appropriate price for having it done it real good?

John Roberts wrote:Imagine walking around a showroom online, then clicking on a product and being able to view it in all angles.


All done long ago. The problem: if you want to meet expectations it becomes rather expensive very quickly.

Clients willing - and able - to pay 10000.-€ for a well-made object-VR of a car (a REAL car ;) ) or a somewhat large
object are rare i realized some time ago. Only real big-players do.

The point is: there are so much cheapo-made VR on the web that unexperienced clients mean to get well-done
VR for the same price as all the cheapo-vr offers.

I know some folks who bought the very expensive Kaidan object-vr rig - see here:
http://4pi-vr.com/site/objects/index.html

Limited in object-size, but fully automatic. Real good - but never paid off . .

What i´m experimenting with is
A) 3D objects with Alpa-channel INSIDE the pano without a frame and with a moving camera just like here -
they use 2D packshots implemented in a pano-sequence we made for them: http://62.75.162.240/SpecialsTVSpot.html
B) real camera flying around a person shooting in a blue-/greenbox with moving background in sync.
Person stands on a turntable or the camera is rigged on a steadicam. Also borderless of course.

best, Klaus

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Re: 3D

by John Roberts » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:09 pm

Hi Klaus,
I understand your point, but simply put, I am a one man show, I do what I can on a very limited budget, in a very defined and limited market.
You mentioned a figure of 10000 Euros. That figure is for a totally different demographic, than what I aim at. Currently, I dont have one customer willing to invest that amount of money for an online virtual tour, or product spin (3D or no 3D). I believe Destiny would concurr with what I am saying.

"Different horses, for different courses"

The link you sent (though impressive) doesnt really show anything other than a Cinematic sequence. Am I missing something?
Sorry I dont understand German, so I cant quite work out what you were trying to show me?
BTW, it took ages to load. Obviously, European internet is considerably faster than Australian. My customers would not tolorate that latency.
Regards
J

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