what a mess !  

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what a mess !

by leifs » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:30 pm

I have been happy making a lot of panos using 1.8, and has waited a long time for 2.0.
Yes, I have been able to do a pano with 2.0 too.
http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/gollen ... ltour.html

I found the GUI to be difficult to decode, less than intuitive. When I after a lot of fiddling found a personal style for single panos, I saved it as "my preset" and thought that would save me a lot of fiddling for the next panos. Not so :-(

The "Workspace" as in the attached image is a mess ! Position, Position, Position ....
It seems like a stack, the Button has to be on top to function. Why then state "Position, Position, Position ...." ??

leifs
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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:24 am

leifs wrote:I have been happy making a lot of panos using 1.8, and has waited a long time for 2.0.
Yes, I have been able to do a pano with 2.0 too.
http://www.rundskuer.no/panotour/gollen ... ltour.html

I found the GUI to be difficult to decode, less than intuitive. When I after a lot of fiddling found a personal style for single panos, I saved it as "my preset" and thought that would save me a lot of fiddling for the next panos. Not so :-(

The "Workspace" as in the attached image is a mess ! Position, Position, Position ....
It seems like a stack, the Button has to be on top to function. Why then state "Position, Position, Position ...." ??

leifs


I agree completely! Useless for producing - *extremely* confusing.
This is the first time i didn´t achieve what i wanted after trying an application for SEVERAL MONTHS - and after using it´s previous versions for several YEARS.

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:57 am

klausesser wrote:I agree completely! Useless for producing - *extremely* confusing.
This is the first time i didn´t achieve what i wanted after trying an application for SEVERAL MONTHS - and after using it´s previous versions for several YEARS.

Klaus


And that's probably part of your 'problem'.

Experience with 1.8 does not help you much in using 2.x.

2.x is a ground-up rewrite so quite different in many ways, even when parts of the UI seem familiar..

I too found it tricky to adapt way back when alpha testing started.

Now I don't find it difficult to use 2.x.

To succeed I think you have to stop trying to 'force' 2.x to behave like 1.8 and accept 2.x on its own terms.

I suspect that those who have no prior experience of 1.8 will it easier to learn 2.x .

I feel that the key to becoming productive with 2.x is to become familiar/comfortable with plugins and hotspot styles.

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Re: what a mess !

by Destiny » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:44 am

In my opinion PTP V2+ is world-class cutting-edge ground-braking software technology, which as Andrew says, it built from the ground up.. It needs to be since the new version uses a lot of JavaScript and HTML5, so its now compatible with just about any hardware, including my Samsung Note... Its also has to be understand that HTML5 is still work in development in itself, since its free and no one is really taking control over the standards..

During the early days of the first Alpha testing, it was stating that if Kolor did not release their software when they did, so many users would be carrying on like pork chop that it was not accessible by them... They wanted it NOW.. Well, NOW, comes with glitches and bugs, which many have been resolved and continue to be resolved by current users reporting, which is very valuable process and in finding bugs, users are taking some kind of ownership of PTP since we are all adding to it and helping to develop this outstanding virtual tour software, which has been designed by virtual tour photographers for virtual tour photographers..

Rather than continuously putting this software down and continuously looking back to PTP 1.8, which was never able to build a Android virtual tour since the software coding would lever allow it to happen... PTP 1.8 was built for a need with the available hardware available at that time. Well times have changed and along comes smart phones and Android, so a rebuild from the ground up was necessary allowing for huge expansion and development of plugins.. This current build of PTP is just the beginning.. I suggest if you want to move forward, is to embrace PTP V2+ and learn how to use it and report bugs as you find them which will benefit not just you but everyone else..

Destiny...
Last edited by Destiny on Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:54 am

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:I agree completely! Useless for producing - *extremely* confusing.
This is the first time i didn´t achieve what i wanted after trying an application for SEVERAL MONTHS - and after using it´s previous versions for several YEARS.

Klaus


And that's probably part of your 'problem'.

Experience with 1.8 does not help you much in using 2.x.

2.x is a ground-up rewrite so quite different in many ways, even when parts of the UI seem familiar..

I too found it tricky to adapt way back when alpha testing started.

Now I don't find it difficult to use 2.x.

To succeed I think you have to stop trying to 'force' 2.x to behave like 1.8 and accept 2.x on its own terms.

I suspect that those who have no prior experience of 1.8 will it easier to learn 2.x .

I feel that the key to becoming productive with 2.x is to become familiar/comfortable with plugins and hotspot styles.


Nothing to say against a completely new written app which works completely different than before - as long as it does things better than before.

But THIS is just an imposition. It doesen´t do things better than before - it does MORE things in a VERY confusing, non-productive way.

Please don´t feel offended, Andrew: but how many commercial productions are you doing each month?

You know: experimenting around without any guidelines to follow, any demands to match it´s easy to say "well, you just need to adapt your thinking to the new way
the app is written - where´s the problem?" . . .

The problem is that for example i do all my panos/tours using architectural projection . . . but i can´t set it as the default projection.
The problem is that i want to use only ONE kind of spots - but i can´t find to set them as default.
The problem ist that a once-set behavior most likely isn´t reproducable when you start a new work.

The problem is: each time making a pano/tour it takes almost hours to sort out the things you need from the vast majority of redundant crab.
The problem is to just find the items you need to do your work in the bin of rubbish and to tailor a slim and fast as well as reliable application
to do WORK instead of toying around.

The problem is - once more - that there is no profound and detailed description. And the problem is that i no more expect there ever will be one
which deserves the name "handbook" or something like that.

This forum isn´t of real help anymore in the way it always was before. What i read here just mirrors the confusion which is in the app.
PTP2 is farer away than it ever was from meeting commercial/professional standards of usability and also is Kolor´s behavior regarding profound information
how to configure and use the app to do reliable work.

We don´t need a kind of Swiss Army Knife providing 250 blades, you know . . . you hardly can use one of them for doing precise cutting . .

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:28 am

klausesser wrote:The problem is that for example i do all my panos/tours using architectural projection . . . but i can´t set it as the default projection.

As far as I know there is no way to do that via the GUI in PTP 1.8 either. I guess you 'hack' the XML to do this?

The problem is that i want to use only ONE kind of spots - but i can´t find to set them as default.

What 'one kind of spot' do you wish to use?

The problem is that a once-set behavior most likely isn´t reproducable when you start a new work.

Can you give a specific example of a 'once-set' behaviour you use in 1.8 that you wish to reproduce in 2.x?

The problem is: each time making a pano/tour it takes almost hours to sort out the things you need from the vast majority of redundant crab.

The problem is to just find the items you need to do your work in the bin of rubbish and to tailor a slim and fast as well as reliable application to do WORK instead of toying around.

This I feel might an initial reaction to any new and/or reasonably complex program with which a user is unfamiliar - PhotoShop say, or PTGui, or APP/APG, or Pano2VR, or...?

Whether or not features you personally don't need are 'redundant crab' or a 'bin of rubbish' is surely a subjective rather than an objective judgement. One man's meat is another man's poison.

The problem is - once more - that there is no profound and detailed description. And the problem is that i no more expect there ever will be one which deserves the name "handbook" or something like that.

Are written instructions really that helpful with complex programs? However they are structured they will never reflect everyone's needs or way of working. I guess that's why there must be hundreds of books about PhotoShop? Not to menton online tutorials, DVDs, tutor led courses, etc etc....

This forum isn´t of real help anymore in the way it always was before. What i read here just mirrors the confusion which is in the app.

Ask a specific question on the forum and you will typically get a specific answer and very quickly too. Many seem to find that helpful. Of course you may not like the answer but that's a different issue.

PTP2 is farer away than it ever was from meeting commercial/professional standards of usability and also is Kolor´s behavior regarding profound information how to configure and use the app to do reliable work.

I think that's just not true; it is obviously closer to 'meeting commercial/professional standards of usability' than it was just a few weeks ago, and far far closer that Alpha 1.

We don´t need a kind of Swiss Army Knife providing 250 blades, you know . . . you hardly can use one of them for doing precise cutting . .

Another sweeping generalisation .... and this is surely a French Army Knife? ;)

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Re: what a mess !

by leifs » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:30 am

I got my first PC in 1981 and seen a lot of software come and go. I have made some software too. So I don't mind learn new tools. But I know a mess when I see it, and the "workspace" looks like a mess !

The preset idea is fine, but it's not doing what it's supposed too.
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/ ... ab#PRESETS
says "backup a configuration of your Style Workspace + Spots Style + Tour Start Parameters into files you can recall later."
In my example I addeded a "simple button" and expected it to be saved in my preset. It didn't.

I'm not talking PTP 2.0 down. I just want it to be better, and preferable more intuitive.

leifs

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Re: what a mess !

by Destiny » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:39 am

Ha.. did they have computers back in those days that could do much.. Thats before I was born.. :p

I agree that the UI could be better, but I also know that Kolor are open minded and listen to suggestions.. What I don't like are outrageous uneducated comments like "Useless for producing.." when In fact its just a matter of learning a brand new software app thats capable of so much more than 1.8 ever could, which is far from being "Useless".. I would say bugs are annoying but that goes with the version and a bit disappointed at some of the missing requested features, but that does not make PTP V2 "Useless".. :rolleyes:

Destiny..

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:47 am

leifs wrote:I got my first PC in 1981 and seen a lot of software come and go. I have made some software too. So I don't mind learn new tools. But I know a mess when I see it, and the "workspace" looks like a mess !

How would you like it to look?

The preset idea is fine, but it's not doing what it's supposed too.
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/ ... ab#PRESETS
says "backup a configuration of your Style Workspace + Spots Style + Tour Start Parameters into files you can recall later."
In my example I addded a "simple button" and expected it to be saved in my preset. It didn't.

How many features, plugins and hotspot styles and how many of their parameters would you wish to have saved in a preset?

I'm not talking PTP 2.0 down. I just want it to be better, and preferable more intuitive.

leifs[/quote]
I've always thougth 'intuitive' a trick(s)y concept; is any aspect of computer hardware and software really 'intuitive'.

I have come to the conclusion that to most people it seems to mean 'something that works a bit like something else that you know already'.

So in a sense if you know one, say, Adobe program then other Adobe programs may seem 'intuitive', on the other hand that won't help you much with a Microsoft Office program and vice versa.

How do you envisage that aspects of PTO 2.x could be made more 'intuitive'?

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:57 am

Destiny wrote:Ha.. did they have computers back in those days that could do much.. That's before I was born.. :p

You don't know what you missed...

The first IBM PC was launched in August 1981 and there were many PCs of various kinds before that, including the famous Apple II first sold in June 1977 and the Commodore PET first sold in October 1977.

My first experience of 'serious' personal computing was with CP/M systems, that pre-date the IBM PC, for which there were the now familiar, word processing, spreadsheet, database and many many other programs.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what a mess !

by leifs » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:13 pm

mediavets wrote:How would you like it to look?


As a starter:
Remove the 6x "Position" in the file below. It's a stack (?) and I can't see any reason to clutter the workspace by 6 times write "Position" large and bold. There must be somebody at Kolor's who can find a better way to present the stack of plugins.

leifs
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what a mess 2.jpg (18.19 KiB) Viewed 6414 times

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Re: what a mess !

by Destiny » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:34 pm

Perhaps its looks like this due to something wrong with the font setting.. To be honest, I have never even noticed this as an issue since mine has small text..

Destiny...

Position.jpg
Position.jpg (31.85 KiB) Viewed 6414 times

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Re: what a mess !

by leifs » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:22 pm

Destiny wrote:Perhaps its looks like this due to something wrong with the font setting.. To be honest, I have never even noticed this as an issue since mine has small text..


is it needed, does it have a function, even in a small font ??

leifs

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:56 pm

leifs wrote:
Destiny wrote:Perhaps its looks like this due to something wrong with the font setting.. To be honest, I have never even noticed this as an issue since mine has small text..


is it needed, does it have a function, even in a small font ??

leifs


The function is to display the placement of the plugin in the tour window without consulting the plugin properties.

Is that useful? Not sure. Perhaps if you are searching for the plugin you wish to 'adjust' having previewed the tour.

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Re: what a mess !

by gkaefer » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:05 pm

leifs wrote:
Destiny wrote:Perhaps its looks like this due to something wrong with the font setting.. To be honest, I have never even noticed this as an issue since mine has small text..


is it needed, does it have a function, even in a small font ??

leifs


... and why wasn't it here in all Alpha and beta Versions? what changed in RC1 which functions was added so it does require this "Position" marks?
Georg

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:15 pm

gkaefer wrote:
leifs wrote:
Destiny wrote:Perhaps its looks like this due to something wrong with the font setting.. To be honest, I have never even noticed this as an issue since mine has small text..


is it needed, does it have a function, even in a small font ??

leifs


... and why wasn't it here in all Alpha and beta Versions? what changed in RC1 which functions was added so it does require this "Position" marks?
Georg


It is not only position that can be indicated in the workspace for a plugin; it can be foregorund and background colours.

Somehow I have two Position indicators for Panotour maps plugin.

I think the intention is to make it easier to find the plugin you may wish to edit.
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Re: what a mess !

by AlanS » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:24 pm

My 2 cents...

I'm new to panos, and so new to pano software. The reason I chose to purchase PTP (and Giga) was because the software was (fairly) logical, well laid-out, and easy to 'discover'. I sat down with it first time and clearly understood the flow and how to get things to happen.

Not to say that it's perfect. I do at times have trouble finding the little things (different modal dialogs in 'Tour' depending on whether a pano is selected or not, background sound for project/ individual panos, does geolocation only have to be set on one pano or all of them etc.) but all in all, I'd say that it's pretty good for a v1.

But yes, there are a lot of 'positions' :)

Alan

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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:08 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:The problem is that for example i do all my panos/tours using architectural projection . . . but i can´t set it as the default projection.

As far as I know there is no way to do that via the GUI in PTP 1.8 either. I guess you 'hack' the XML to do this?

The problem is that i want to use only ONE kind of spots - but i can´t find to set them as default.

What 'one kind of spot' do you wish to use?

The problem is that a once-set behavior most likely isn´t reproducable when you start a new work.

Can you give a specific example of a 'once-set' behaviour you use in 1.8 that you wish to reproduce in 2.x?

The problem is: each time making a pano/tour it takes almost hours to sort out the things you need from the vast majority of redundant crab.

The problem is to just find the items you need to do your work in the bin of rubbish and to tailor a slim and fast as well as reliable application to do WORK instead of toying around.

This I feel might an initial reaction to any new and/or reasonably complex program with which a user is unfamiliar - PhotoShop say, or PTGui, or APP/APG, or Pano2VR, or...?

Whether or not features you personally don't need are 'redundant crab' or a 'bin of rubbish' is surely a subjective rather than an objective judgement. One man's meat is another man's poison.

The problem is - once more - that there is no profound and detailed description. And the problem is that i no more expect there ever will be one which deserves the name "handbook" or something like that.

Are written instructions really that helpful with complex programs? However they are structured they will never reflect everyone's needs or way of working. I guess that's why there must be hundreds of books about PhotoShop? Not to menton online tutorials, DVDs, tutor led courses, etc etc....

This forum isn´t of real help anymore in the way it always was before. What i read here just mirrors the confusion which is in the app.

Ask a specific question on the forum and you will typically get a specific answer and very quickly too. Many seem to find that helpful. Of course you may not like the answer but that's a different issue.

PTP2 is farer away than it ever was from meeting commercial/professional standards of usability and also is Kolor´s behavior regarding profound information how to configure and use the app to do reliable work.

I think that's just not true; it is obviously closer to 'meeting commercial/professional standards of usability' than it was just a few weeks ago, and far far closer that Alpha 1.

We don´t need a kind of Swiss Army Knife providing 250 blades, you know . . . you hardly can use one of them for doing precise cutting . .

Another sweeping generalisation .... and this is surely a French Army Knife? ;)



Needing to "hack" things in the xml like in 1.8 is no progress, don´t you think? (besides i can´t even do it for testing in the Beta as long as i pay for the Beta . . and so i don´t know
how it behaves in real.)

Each time i want to do a tour the same way as the one before i need to run several attempts to achieve that i reliably get the white animated circle-spots.

3) When i use an application like Photoshop, AfterEffects, Maya, MediaComposer, Symphony, 3DMax or some in that range for doing work with them i don´t know
all the zillion of functions they provide - i guess nobody does. For that reason there are very well made handbooks and third party literature.
But even these killer-applications are structured in a way which allows to configure them to your special needs. Once configured the work reliably and as expected.
Beyond this point it takes just a look into the very detailed handbooks and you get what you need.

Configuring, "tailoring" an app for an individual way of using it and leaving away what you don´t need is essential. When i need to dig what i need among redundant
features EACH TIME I START WORKING that´s non-productive.
I tried to "tailor" PTP2 to the way i need . . . . it didn´t work well. Presets were not recognized and anyway are structured somewhat funny.

When i choose "architectural view" i NEVER achieved "architectural view" when i start the pano/tourin the end.

Yes - it surely is a kind of "French Army Knife" . . . i´m afraid.

You see - for me as a commercial producer there are three important features:
HTML5/js with multires. Guess that´s achievable on other ways too.
LivePano - well that´s really valuable . . . . if needed. My clients have no real demands for it so far - but that might change. Actually it´s nice, but just an add-on.
Everything else for the time being i can do much more fluent using PTP1.8 . . .

My clients don´t want floor-plans, radar, GPS or whatever. Just aesthetically reduced panos/tours . . . concentrated on the "real thing".
The problem is: in the end all tours look alike when it´s about features instead of aesthetics. It´s easy - well, more or less :cool: - using the built-in features
and everybody will do.
So, when 90% of the works look alike . . . . you need to be different. How? 1) excellent photography, 2) excellently designed presentation.

But is your presentation excellently designed when it looks like everybody else´s? No - i don´t think so.

Many, many clients are not impressed at all by interactive panos and tours. "We know it - and we don´t like it because what we see looks cheap in 90% of all cases"

Know what? They´re right! That´s today. What´s tomorrow, when everybody uses PTP2 and it´s "design features" so that every second pano/tour looks alike? =D
This features are too dominant, to clumpsy - they "rule" over the content!

The golden rules of desing are: "form follows function" and "less is more". Or speaking with Coco Chanel: "Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance."

Right she was!

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:15 pm

mediavets wrote:
PTP2 is farer away than it ever was from meeting commercial/professional standards of usability and also is Kolor´s behavior regarding profound information how to configure and use the app to do reliable work.

I think that's just not true; it is obviously closer to 'meeting commercial/professional standards of usability' than it was just a few weeks ago, and far far closer that Alpha 1.


I don´t know YOUR commercial/professional standards of usability . . . but i know MINE. ;) :cool:

When can we expect a final, stable version? How "final" and how "stable" will this one going to be? Will it behave like we expect it to behave?

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:38 pm

klausesser wrote:When can we expect a final, stable version? How "final" and how "stable" will this one going to be?

Final and stable 2.0 release means current feature set without gross bugs I imagine.

I don't expect any new functionality in 2.0.

After that of course we can expect new functionality in 2.1 and so on.

Will it behave like we expect it to behave?

Klaus


I have no idea how you 'expect it to behave'. So I cannot hazard a guess at an answer.

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:57 pm

klausesser wrote:Needing to "hack" things in the xml like in 1.8 is no progress, don´t you think? (besides i can´t even do it for testing in the Beta as long as i pay for the Beta . . and so i don´t know how it behaves in real.)

If you ever envisage using PTP 2.x then why not buy a license now?

The PTP 2.x GUI is unlikely ever to expose all possible parameters offered by krpano script.

But I have no interest in hacking the XML - so I want to be able to do more via the GUI.

Each time i want to do a tour the same way as the one before i need to run several attempts to achieve that i reliably get the white animated circle-spots.

What appears to be the problem here?

When i use an application like Photoshop, AfterEffects, Maya, MediaComposer, Symphony, 3DMax or some in that range for doing work with them i don´t know all the zillion of functions they provide - i guess nobody does. For that reason there are very well made handbooks and third party literature.
But even these killer-applications are structured in a way which allows to configure them to your special needs. Once configured the work reliably and as expected.
Beyond this point it takes just a look into the very detailed handbooks and you get what you need.


These programs have a large enough installed base to warrant speculative writing and publishing of third-party books and manuals.

PTP is unlikely to attract authors and publishers in the same way.

In any a case I don't think it's necessary.

Configuring, "tailoring" an app for an individual way of using it and leaving away what you don´t need is essential. When i need to dig what i need among redundant features EACH TIME I START WORKING that´s non-productive. I tried to "tailor" PTP2 to the way i need . . . . it didn´t work well. Presets were not recognized and anyway are structured somewhat funny.

Then there's plainly scope for enhancing the Presets feature. Your input to this process would be valuable.

When i choose "architectural view" i NEVER achieved "architectural view" when i start the pano/tourin the end.

I think you may have already made a feature request asking for the option to make Architectural view the default?

You see - for me as a commercial producer there are three important features:
HTML5/js with multires. Guess that´s achievable on other ways too.

RC1 delivers multi-res for mobiles.

LivePano - well that´s really valuable . . . . if needed. My clients have no real demands for it so far - but that might change. Actually it´s nice, but just an add-on.

It's there when you want it - and no need to pay for it until then.

Everything else for the time being i can do much more fluent using PTP1.8 . . .

My clients don´t want floor-plans, radar, GPS or whatever. Just aesthetically reduced panos/tours . . . concentrated on the "real thing".

You are not forced to use any of these features.

The problem is: in the end all tours look alike when it´s about features instead of aesthetics. It´s easy - well, more or less :cool: - using the built-in features
and everybody will do.
So, when 90% of the works look alike . . . . you need to be different. How? 1) excellent photography, 2) excellently designed presentation.

I see no evidence to make me believe that all tours created using PTP2.x will end up looking alike.

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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:38 pm

mediavets wrote:
When i choose "architectural view" i NEVER achieved "architectural view" when i start the pano/tourin the end.

I think you may have already made a feature request asking for the option to make Architectural view the default?


The problem is THAT there seems to be a need at all for handling it via a "future request". That´s ridiculous. Obviously the programmers
don´t know their own application in real work . . .

Do YOU know it under real productioning conditions?

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by mediavets » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:13 pm

klausesser wrote:The problem is THAT there seems to be a need at all for handling it via a "future request". That´s ridiculous. Obviously the programmers don´t know their own application in real work . . .


No, why would they...they are pro software developers not pro photographers and virtual tour producers.

That's why Kolor has open beta testing...to get the 'real world' input of pros like yourself.

Do YOU know it under real productioning conditions?

Klaus


No... as you know I am a hobbyist who also enjoys software testing and tries to assist people via the forum..

But it's apparent that there are other commercial tour developers who don't entirely share your views about PTP 2.x.

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Re: what a mess !

by klausesser » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:00 am

mediavets wrote:But it's apparent that there are other commercial tour developers who don't entirely share your views about PTP 2.x.



Yes - obviously . . . :cool:

You know: of course i exaggerate. But basicly that´s how i see it.

Have a fine Christmas, Andrew!

Klaus

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Re: what a mess !

by Destiny » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:08 am

emm...

Don't get too concerned if you do not get a visit from the Ghosts Of Christmas Pasted this year Klaus.. There is always next year... :lol:

All is forgiven, have happy Christmas..

Destiny....

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