French language in English forums  

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DamoRed
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French language in English forums

by DamoRed » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:02 pm

Sorry to moan about this, but why are questions in French, in the English section, when there is a like for like forum in the respective languages? I don't want any of this to sound confrontational, or to cause any friction, as this is without doubt THE most harmonious forum I've ever had the pleasure to be a member of, with everyone having the same common goal, to help each other with this wonderful software.

I saw a request in another thread ... http://www.autopano.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4199&p=3 that if French were used, that an English translation by the poster would also be included. While the above thread began in English, it morphed into bilingual. In fairness, some posts were retrospectively edited to include very clear English, which is very much appreciated. Although why threads that start in French can't be placed in the French section in the first place, is beyond me.

I know it's not the intention, and certainly not personal against anyone who does this, but it just appears well, are the words 'rude and inconsiderate' too strong?. I find it extremely frustrating, as a new user of APP and now the Alpha of APG, to be trying to learn as much as I can about the application and then to be hampered because I can't understand what is being asked and the respective solutions offered. The information I read in all posts is very interesting and helpful, and I and others, who cannot speak or read French, are missing out on more very useful info.

Translation sites can offer an option to get the main points of a post, or thread, but I don't expect to have to do that when reading threads or individual posts in the English section. Plus the fact that translations rarely work out perfectly and the garbled English that they produce often makes no sense whatsoever leading to total confusion about what is actually being discussed and no understanding of what the question or the solution is. If I want to be confused, I know where to look :D

What happens if I post an English question in the French section, what can I expect? And in what language?

I, and others who have mentioned this before, would appreciate very much if this could be discussed (in English :lol:) and a happy resolution be found for all.



Thank you

Damo
Go sell crazy some place else... we're all stocked up here!

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by BeeZed » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:55 pm

While I don't understand French in any form, I do appreciate posts in French. First, even if I look at the pictures, I am being exposed to ideas that I would not otherwise. Having the bilingual posts where some of the conversation is in English is all that much better, especially considering that they would not exist if we segregated everything into English only and French only boards. Many of the most active and knowledgeable members of this forum speak French more fluently than English. When they need to try to discuss the fine points of a subject, it makes sense to use the most capable tool. Getting a couple of lines of translation into English is a bonus for those of us who aren't fluent. There is plenty of information available on this board in English. If you have a question that is not already answered, if you ask, you will get an answer.

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by beeloba » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:13 pm

Thanks BeeZed for your answer, I really appreciate that someone from New-Zealand is saying that :)

I was going to say something else earlier, but i understood the Damien's frustration.

The link he is pointed at is related to a so specific and technical subject that is more related to a research or a brain storming thread.
It is very difficult to talk in an other language when it comes to deep thinking (maybe using math, physic or geometry would be a better word !!!).
The subject about "projections" is even hard for me to follow, in french or in english.
I do trust them (the group mixing languages) in there knowledges and ability to exchange sincerely, like I trust them in there ability to talk in electronics about the gigapan and Merlin panoheads… http://www.autopano.net/forum/t1716-discution-sur-monture-multi-fonctions-merlin
(This topic started a year ago is a 13 pages workflow, 306 answers and 24658 views)

I'd like to tell you Damien that it is not a language segregation…
Those subjects are a real work made by this forum's members.
No other aim than working to help the Kolor project, and finally help our own projects! who knows!

Please do think of the efforts made by Italian, Spanish, Russians, Polish and other country's users, where people are not speaking English at all. They might be a lot more frustrated than you are.

I have spent some times in England and in the States, even if my way of speaking is more Globish than British…
We all do what we can to help, and I'd love to see you increasing your knowledges in this global space in which we are with choice and no choice…
Hopefully APP is not developed in Chinese or arabic :lol: :rolleyes: :cool:

Can I ask you to answer, because there is not a drama coming on here, just questions with or without answers… No big misunderstanding must be left behind us.
It happens that a lot questions don't have answers right away… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Last edited by beeloba on Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by digipano » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:29 am

I was the one who requested the English translation in that thread but lost track of it partially.

I do understand that for many members French is the main language & when it comes to brain storming, by default humans switch to their native language. The same members do know English too but its more of "functional" English to read & write in these forums.

Expressing in a language requires much more than just functional knowledge hence members switch over when they find their thoughts can be better expressed in their native language.

After that English + French thread I have found a better translator tool & have been surfing the French forum too.

I use Firefox & it has an addon extension "Translator v1.0.4.4" I have set it to use French>English (more languages are available too) The good thing about it is that it offers 5 different translator company services. I have set it to use Google Translator

It would be good if French members can post the English translation as they can verify it too, but never the less i don't get restricted now with French, I just switch to this forum via translator only so English remains as it is & the french part gets translated automatically.

I can also post French now:D
-------------------------------------
J'ai été un qui l'a demandé la traduction en anglais que thread mais perdu la trace de celui-ci en partie.

Je comprends que, pour de nombreux membres français est la langue principale, quand il s'agit de cerveau d'assaut, par défaut l'homme à  passer leur langue maternelle. Les mêmes membres ne sais trop anglais mais c'est plus de "fonctionnel" anglais pour lire et écrire dans ces forums.

Exprimant dans une langue exige beaucoup plus qu'une simple connaissance fonctionnelle membres donc passer quand ils trouvent leurs idées peuvent être mieux exprimé dans leur langue maternelle.

Après que anglais + français thread j'ai trouvé un meilleur outil et traducteur ont été surfer sur le forum français.

J'utilise Firefox et il a un addon extension "Translator v1.0.4.4" J'ai mis à  utiliser le français> anglais (d'autres langues sont également disponibles) La bonne chose, c'est qu'il propose 5 différents services de traducteur société. J'ai mis à  utiliser Google Translator

Il serait bon français si les membres peuvent envoyer la traduction anglais comme ils peuvent le vérifier, mais jamais moins je n'ai pas limité maintenant avec le français, je viens de passer à  ce forum par l'intermédiaire de traducteur anglais uniquement dans la demeure telle qu'elle est et la partie française est traduite automatiquement.
Last edited by digipano on Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by DamoRed » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:40 am

My initial point was based on the fact that there are threads actually started in French in the English section. Then I just expanded upon that.

That was and is indeed a very deep, involved and technical thread. But until such time as the points discussed, specifically GURL's "Kick-ass" (to quote Alexandre) idea is incorporated into APG, I'm still as yet unable to understand what it all means. And the language issue aside, I dare say there are plenty more like me :D My head started to spin when I saw the formulae involved. Reading French was as clear as English in comparison :lol:

It's not that I'm in any way against the French language, it is my intention to learn French, and with the added interest and incentive of learning as much as possible about our beloved APP, then I can only hope the vast amount of material within these forums will aid my learning. There is such a wealth of knowledge in those threads too for those who do not speak the language.

As always, I am indeed appreciative of the knowledge of all APP workers and their helpful assistance is always given generously. What I would also appreciate is that if a solution to a question is offered, then a user translation which would take into account the nature of the issue, rather than the garbled 'Frenglish' translations we see on various sites. Using the example of the projection methods was to highlight the request that was made in that thread, in post #59 complete with one such translation which was very and made little or no sense. The answer could hinge upon a very small detail which is missed or misinterpreted by one of those site's translations. That confusion could be avoided by the poster using their knowledge of both languages to 'clean up the translation' to make it more understandable. This was seen to very good effect in that 'Projections' thread, where very good and clear English was used as translation when added in later.

The hope here is to make APP better understood and thus, more usable and productive for everybody. I hope I've been able to make my points here as clearly as possible and without anything being misunderstood about my intentions.

Thank you

Damo
Go sell crazy some place else... we're all stocked up here!

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digipano
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by digipano » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:50 am

Firefox Translator addon add on can help us a lot which uses Google as its engine since you don't need to switch it can automatically detect the french language when you take the mouse over the post & rest it does automatically

see it yourself when I am reading your post as a french member & its giving me the English translation sentence by sentence.



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by tived » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:35 am

Thanks digipano, I better go looking for that addon!

I too have found it frustrating, as my french is very very very basic, but enough to see that there is some valuable information in the conversations. I am Danish by birth but have resided in Australia in the past fourteen years and have been slowly naturalized :-) for the lack of a better word.

that addon would be great, in this way, if it can do a good translation, we could speak in our native tongue, which could also help increase the quality of what is being said.

off searching for this

thanks

Henrik

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by tived » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:48 am

google translate works like a charm!

thanks

learning something new everyday its just fantastic

Henrik

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digipano
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by digipano » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:01 am

Welcome Henrik,
Others who want to use his extension with firefox here is the link
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3361

Rumor is that the Google Chrome browser will have this feature auto enabled & will translate any language into your chosen default language. so no more manual effort required unless you may want to see the original text.

World will shrink further & language will no more a barrier.
Good times ahead.
Last edited by digipano on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by BeeZed » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:23 am

digipano: thanks for posting the translator extension link. I'll give it a try.

beloba: I figure I'm lucky that my first language has become the language of commerce internationally. Off course this will change over time. Smart business people have been learning Asian languages for a while now. When traveling, I cannot demand that someone speak English, only apologize that I do not speak their language. Since the goal of these forums is to share ideas, the more languages represented the better.

DamoRed: I can completely relate to your frustration when an interesting discussion suddenly veers into another language. It is like someone has made the answer a secret. To my eye, the solution does not come from moving the French language posts into their own section, or from demanding that they speak English (which in fact does the same thing.) I think all we can do is raise the issue in an understanding way. and encourage those folks who do translate for us. I would rather people speak whatever language they are comfortable with, in the same forum, rather than feeling uncomfortable and going away. If it is an important concept, it will come around again in English (or French) eventually.

So, to take my own word, I would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to write out an answer twice, in whatever language, for the benefit of these forums. We really appreciate it.


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