New Kolor eyes - blog entry  

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gkaefer
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New Kolor eyes - blog entry

by gkaefer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:04 pm

referring to this new blog entry about kolor eyes:
http://www.kolor.com/blog-en/2012/08/22/kolor-launches-kolor-eyes-the-worlds-first-360%c2%b0-video-player-based-on-html5-for-web-browsers-and-ipad/

which browsers do work,
which browsers should work?

using Win7 64 bit:

IE9 does not work for me, no video is displayed, even selecting the projection buttons is not possible.
Firefox 14.0.1 does not work for me, no video is displayed.
Opera 11.61 does not work for me, even selecting the projection buttons is not possible.
Safari 5.1.7 does not work for me (on PC there is no WebGL to activate in Developers menu....)

Google Chrome 21.0.1180.83 m DOES DISPAY the video. it starts in HD mode. but cklicking on SD will crash all and a reload of the page is needed.

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by AlexandreJ » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:49 pm

gkaefer wrote:referring to this new blog entry about kolor eyes:
http://www.kolor.com/blog-en/2012/08/22/kolor-launches-kolor-eyes-the-worlds-first-360%c2%b0-video-player-based-on-html5-for-web-browsers-and-ipad/

which browsers do work,
which browsers should work?

There is 2 features we use in this product : HTML5 <video> tag and WebGL. Both are needed to make Kolor Eyes works.

gkaefer wrote:using Win7 64 bit:IE9 does not work for me, no video is displayed, even selecting the projection buttons is not possible.

Microsoft is not following WebGL path, but perhaps this plugin does help : http://iewebgl.com/

gkaefer wrote:Firefox 14.0.1 does not work for me, no video is displayed.

Should work, tested on several platform here.

gkaefer wrote:Opera 11.61 does not work for me, even selecting the projection buttons is not possible.

Opera is not supported yet.

gkaefer wrote:Safari 5.1.7 does not work for me (on PC there is no WebGL to activate in Developers menu....)

We checked that on mac, not the windows version. We have to look into that.

gkaefer wrote:Google Chrome 21.0.1180.83 m DOES DISPAY the video. it starts in HD mode. but cklicking on SD will crash all and a reload of the page is needed.

Chrome is our main development platform. Never have any issue with it under linux, mac or Windows.

Let's wait for the developer to get back from holiday to see his analysis of your case.

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by tived » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:46 pm

firefox 14.0.1 here and its not showing the video

sorry

Henrik

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by AlexandreJ » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:09 pm

WebGL activation in firefox does depend on the hardware too not only on firefox version. Some tips are shared here :
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/03/how-to-enable-webgl-in-firefox-for.html

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by gkaefer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:43 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:WebGL activation in firefox does depend on the hardware too not only on firefox version. Some tips are shared here :
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/03/how-to-enable-webgl-in-firefox-for.html

ok did the test in above link... my firefox is working and my graphic card seems not to be blacklisted.
kolor eyes still does not work with firefox

did also install the webgl plugin for IE9 from earlier link... is installed and activ. Kolor eyes does not work....

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by AlexandreJ » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:57 pm

Does that webgl app work for you gkaefer ? http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/

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by gkaefer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:44 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:Does that webgl app work for you gkaefer ? http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/

Firefox... YES
IE9 ... NO (endless "Loading..." with installed plugin: http://iewebgl.com/ )
Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Destiny » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:29 am

I am using Safari on my Mac and IE on my WIndow on Bootcamp.. both say that I do not have WebGL support.. Its not just Kolor Eye software, it other software that is utilising the HTML5 and WebGL too... I am guessing it will all come down to the browser developers.. Not sure on any of this..

So, what is WebGL if not a plugin.... ???

"After several months of experimentations, the team of Kolor is glad to officially launch Kolor Eyes,
the world’s first 360° video player based on HTML5. Using the latest technology standards, Kolor
Eyes is offered as an iPad app and a WebApp that does not need any extra plugin to run."

Also.... I just played the video on the kolor blog.. Not sure what video format you are using but I suggest you change it.. Its terribly slow.. There is a rule with CODECs.. The longer it takes to compress the quicker it takes to decompress.. Not sure why that is but we were taught that..

Destiny...

PS.. I copied this text code string into the Terminal but.. not sure how to action it. defaults write com.apple.Safari WebKitWebGLEnabled -bool YES
http://www.khronos.org/webgl/wiki/Getting_a_WebGL_Implementation

emmmmmm :rolleyes:
Last edited by Destiny on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by leifs » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:31 am

Win 7 64bit and fresh installed Firefox 14.01:
http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/ show up fine :)
Kolor eyes shows me nothing :(

It seems like a long road ahead before html5 can replace flash for panos.
It has to work out of the box with no need to tweek settings like "set webgl.force-enabled to true."
And must work for "all" browsers (I prefer Opera and for now webGL is not supported)

leifs


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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:16 am

Hi Destiny,

I understand it the following way: about "plugin": Having the panotour 2.0 and autopano 3.0 preview in mind I think there will be a Plugin/Addon Software available for panotour 2.0 which enables the 360 videos - to create them, to implement them into panotour tours and to render the video and finally also the html5 frontend to create the "tour" shown like in last example (we're now discussing which browser is showing them and which one not...)

Georg

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by HansKeesom » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:28 am

So what is this about?
How do we makes these videos?
Can we use our current panoramas to play in this player?
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:37 am

my firefox settings concerning webgl (default ones didnt change any...)

in address bar entered: about:config and than entered webgl in above search field to show all webgl settings....
Georg



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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:49 am

HansKeesom wrote:So what is this about?
How do we makes these videos?
Can we use our current panoramas to play in this player?

1. make your panorama using a cam that can also take videos
2. the cam still mounted on your panohead make your video

3. hwo to combine both see best the preview, it has 139 slides, the "livepano addon for panotour 2.0" is on slide 89-129
http://www.kolor.com/blog-en/2012/07/05/autopano-3-0-panotour-2-0-livepano-have-a-look-at-the-presentation-of-alexandre-jenny-during-nyc2012-conference-ivrpa/

more info is not available as far as I'm aware...

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:40 pm

Thanks George,

But how about the demo where the camera follows a path through an apartment. Will we still be able to make that with a normal DSLR ( with video option)?
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:50 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Thanks George,

But how about the demo where the camera follows a path through an apartment. Will we still be able to make that with a normal DSLR ( with video option)?

no. this example I think its conpletley made with maya or other 3D modelling software. ;-)
but you can do videos too, just take 4-6 GoPro cameras and mount them...
some links in my post:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p102112-2012-07-20-15-24-15#p102112
the 360rig is my favorite ;-)
Georg

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by HansKeesom » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:03 pm

Hmm to be honest I am not a fan of 360 video. The fact that you do not see more then half of what is happening irritates me. With the example I mentioned I also had the fact someone psuhes me through the space. Integration of video into a static panorama is something else of course.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:44 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Hmm to be honest I am not a fan of 360 video. The fact that you do not see more then half of what is happening irritates me. With the example I mentioned I also had the fact someone psuhes me through the space. Integration of video into a static panorama is something else of course.

yes - seeing the ninjas - I've the same feeling, you dont know where to see to and always feeling you miss something.
But I think its like with all new media... it takes time to find the perfect audience...

but setups like a pano in a museum with a guide staying on one point on each scene explaining the artwork...
setups like architectual or sightseeing scenes again with a "story teller" why not ;-)

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Destiny » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:59 pm

Its one thing that WE can get to view the video with effort.., perhaps in time... emm.. but how about the intended audience we make it for.. Will they be so patient or willing to download fixes, or use a different browser??? Not sure if I even want to myself since most of the video VR I have seen are not the best so do I really want to go through any extra expense to set myself up.. Its hard enough getting normal VR work... A video VR would have very limited uses..

Destiny...
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by gkaefer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:31 pm

I see it this way: this is a new media, a new software, new content. even if we can get a beta version to test with in one month it will take than some time to be able to produce appealing content.
webgl is available on Firefox (20%), Safari (5%), Chrome (19%) and Opera (2%), so around 47% market shares.
so if kolor can make kolor eyes / livevideo etc. run on the webgl browsers its not so bad...

im optimistic ;-))

source for marketdata:
http://www.pcwelt.de/news/Juni-2012-Aktuelle-Marktanteile-Browser-OS-und-Suchmaschinen-6155301.html

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by AlexandreJ » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:05 am

Let's think out of the box :
- has flash a future ? No ! of course, never enabled on iOS, removed lately from android ... Dead.
- what's left ? HTML5 which is composed of several technologies in fact.
And in HTML5 context, what is really hot is true 3D ( for gaming mostly ). And that's done in WebGL natively. There's other solution like Unity but they all needs to install a plugin.
So we are really interested into WebGL because it is nice in 360 video context, but awesome if merged into Panotour ( you could put 3D objects directly into tours ... ).

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by Destiny » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:36 am

Hi Alex.. Putting 3D objects directly into a tour really excites me.. Especially since this is the area I have been working on for a long time. At the moment I am using html5, and Flex but sorry to say, flash too.. I just cannot get around it at the moment.. As for thinking outside the box, I am always doing this partially with ptp but as for the VR video using Kolor Eye, until I can get it to work its frustrating.. Today I tried on several computers including my laptop running Windows 7 with IE, Bootcamp ruing IE and a PC at my friends home using Firefox.. We got nothing... I guess this can only be expected with new technology...

Destiny..
Last edited by Destiny on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by gkaefer » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:35 am

I also tested (without success) the second available webgl plugin for IE, coming from Google...
https://developers.google.com/chrome/chrome-frame/
Georg
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by Aperol » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:21 pm

i made some tests too with Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit :

Chrome 21 - it works perfect!
Firefox 14.01 - it doesn't load the video
Explorer 8 - it doesn't load the video
Explorer 9 - it doesn't load the video
Opera 12 - it doesn't load the video (also with hardware accelerator and WebGL enabled)
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by Destiny » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi.. This is from Wikipedia.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL
It looks like webGl is supported on Safari but its disabled by default, but I cannot find out how to un-disable it.. Very suppressing, that MS IE has not supported or endorsed webGL, perhaps due to its own Silverlight thing... They probably need to be careful since if webGL does all it claimed to do, people will move over to Firefox and others...

I have been looking at webGL since last year since I have received emails from other 3D companies suggesting they are about to or are/have developed webGL content.. Unfortunately the tag appears stating I do not have webGL support please chose a browsers with webGL support.. Well... I am not going to do that since if webGL cannot work on my Mac using Safari, then whats the point in making anything to showcase when I know that others would perhaps not be able to view the content.. To be honest, I am really excited about webGL, it will open up a door of so many opportunities but at the moment.. emmmmm :rolleyes:

Destiny

Desktop Browsers
Mozilla Firefox - WebGL has been enabled on all platforms that have a capable graphics card with updated drivers since version 4.0.[11] Mozilla Firefox 8.0 and newer versions use Cross-Origin Resource Sharing (CORS) to control all WebGL cross-domain textures.[12][13]
Google Chrome - WebGL has been enabled on all platforms that have a capable graphics card with updated drivers since version 9.[14] Google Chrome 13.0 and newer versions use Cross-Origin Resource Sharing (CORS) to control all WebGL cross-domain textures.[15]
Safari - Safari 5.1 and newer versions installed on Mac OS X Lion and Mac OS X Snow Leopard implemented support for WebGL, which is disabled by default.[16][17][18][19][20]
Opera - WebGL has been implemented in Opera 11 and 12, also disabled by default.[21][22]
Internet Explorer - Microsoft has not announced any plans to support WebGL. The Chrome Frame and IEWebGL[23] plugins provide options to add support for WebGL to Internet Explorer 6.0 and newer versions, although these plugins are not supported or endorsed by Microsoft.

[edit]Mobile Browsers
Nokia N900 - WebGL is available in the stock microB browser from the PR1.2 firmware update onwards.[24]
BlackBerry PlayBook - WebGL is available via WebWorks and browser in PlayBook OS 2.0[25]
Firefox for mobile - WebGL is available for Android devices in unstable builds since early 2011.[26]
The Sony Ericsson Xperia range of Android smartphones have had WebGL capabilities following a firmware upgrade.[27]
Opera Mobile 12 final supports WebGL (on Android only).[28]
[edit]
Last edited by Destiny on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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by Destiny » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:36 pm

Its interesting to note that the webGL, which is technology derived from OpenGL which has been around for a long time, is developed by The Khronos Group being a not-for-profit member-funded industry. Three of its members are Motorola the makers of Firefox and Google for Chrome and Apple for Safari.. Microsoft however are not members of this Group so perhaps there will always be issues with IE...

I have been using the COLLADA dae format and the 3DXML formats for years but they may need free apps for them to work.. However Apple Mac will open the dae in a window without any additional apps since its a formate created by the Group of which Apple is a part of. The u3d is great for Photoshop 3D editing where it can then be exported as a dae and viewed in the Mac interactive window.. I am assuming that the COLLADA formate will be able to be viewed using the webGL so therefor we will be able to use Photoshop 3D to create, edit, and paint some of the 3D content for incorporating directly into a Virtual Tour....

The webGL format will open up a door of opportunity where I am hoping that I can place, as Alex as stated, directly into a VR without any additional players or windows etc.. Very exciting...!!

Destiny...
Primary School Teacher - Hobby Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer - Our aim is to create a 3D/360 Virtual Tour Shop/Store with links to 3D/360 degree products. My gear, VR Drive II - D90 - Nikon 10.5 fisheye - Nikon D800 with Nikon-Nikkor 14-24 - NOVOFLEX Magic Balance - Acratech GP Ball-head - Nodal Ninja 4 + RD-16 Rotor - Manfrotto 190CXPRO4 Carbon Fiber Tripod :) :)

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