Recommend a wide angle for EOS?  

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jayelwin
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Recommend a wide angle for EOS?

by jayelwin » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:17 pm

Hello all.

Very excited as my Canon 5D arrived this week. I have not purchased a wide angle lens yet. (currently only got the 85 1.8 mostly to photograph the kids). For my Nikon film SLR I had the 20mm 2.8 which was WIDE. This was before I started to think about panoramas.

Now for the EOS line there are the 20 2.8, the 24 2.8 and the 28 2.8 (I'm not left with enough money after the camera purchase to go for the 1.8 lenses.) Does anyone have a specific recommendation as to which wide angle to get. I'm not interested in a zoom, they are never as good for the money as primes. I figure I don't have to be as wide as I think since I'll have more field of view as I stitch. So does the 28mm lens make the most sense. Remember the 5D is full frame so no crop factor.

The 20 2.8 = USD$420
The 24 2.8 = USD$290
The 28 2.8 = USD$170, the 28 1.8 = USD$400

If I go with the 28mm is the 1.8 worth it (obviously not for speed as the thing will be on a tripod but just for overall quality.

Thanks!

-Josh

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francois.simond
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by francois.simond » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:29 pm

Hello jayelwin !

Sorry i've never had the chance to test these lens, especially on a full frame sensor but i strongly recommand :
1/ the lowest vignetting
2/ the lowest geometric distorsion & chromatic abberation
3/ the lowest flare
4/ the best sharpness :D

You'll find some informations on the review forum on fredmiranda's website
François Simond

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AlexandreJ
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by AlexandreJ » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:36 am

A really good site with quality, distortion or chromatic aberration measurement of many lenses : http://www.slrgear.com

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Michel
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by Michel » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:08 am

I have a test (CI France) for the Canon 1.8/28 with the Canon 1Ds mark II.
It's a very good lens with 4 stars/5: excellent !

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by fmn1972 » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:00 pm

I think a nice lens with a quite good quality and a cheap price is the sigma 17-35 2.8-4.
Ok you don't like zoom, me neither, but I use this lens just for panos, just @ 17mm and it's nice and cheap. Used is very cheap and since you probably will shoot with an high f number, you'll get a sharp lens too.
Seems just too cheap, maybe, but I'm using it on a eos 5d and I had the results (the last two scrolling down) you can see on this page http://www.vrprofx.com/sph.htm
which are by far much better than the other shot I did with diffrent lenses. The only thing is it vignettes up to 1/4-1/3 f stop from the center to the corners but it's common among wide angles

I mean:
It's sharp - but i shoot with a 15kg tripod + custom-made pano head + remote control at nothing less than f 11. Then it must be so.
For vr's, I think depth of field and sharpness is a good thing expecially shooting small areas like yacht bathrooms with an open door to something 5 meter far away, or something very narrow.
It has few chromatic aberration
It's light
It's cheap
It has a wide range of focal lenght (for group of kids ;-))
Its AF works pretty good

so I bought it thinking: yes, I'm buying this glass 'cos the L series costs too much, but I was really surprised when I tried it.

Anyway you better try it or rent it to see if it's ok for you too. The positive feeling you can have with a lens is a great thing. Considered that you already own a great lens (85 1.8 is AMAZING) you must be aware of what I mean.

try it and save money!

bye

Fabrizio

www.vrprofx.com
www.digitalrestyling.com
www.fabrizionannini.com
Fabrizio Nannini

www.vrprofx.com

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AlexandreJ
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by AlexandreJ » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:06 pm

I also own a sigma 17-35 2.8-4. I really enjoy this lens.

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fmn1972
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by fmn1972 » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:28 pm

Yes, Alexandre, it's a real surprise considered the price. It will last for long between my camera stuff...

jayelwin, also consider that wider is the lens the less shots you'll have 2 take: with a 28 mm for a spherical VR you need approx 32 img and with a 17 mm only 18... it's faster, the sw works with less pics then faster, YOU GET LESS CHANCE TO DO MISTAKES (happens...), less time=less people or unpredictable events that can happen when you shoot...

you want a 28 mm? ok set the lens @ 28 mm and fix it with a tape... and save money!!!

enjoy the lens

bye
Fabrizio Nannini

www.vrprofx.com

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francois.simond
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by francois.simond » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:45 pm

Sigma 17-35 2.8-4 is not reputed to perform well with full frame sensors.
I'm not shure results would on par with jayelwin expectations, compared to a prime.

fmn1972, you have a good copy of this lens, but it does not seems to be always right!
Last edited by francois.simond on Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jayelwin
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by jayelwin » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:32 pm

Thanks for the replies. I think the sigma seems to review well on smaller sensor cameras such as the D70 of the 20D. Also I have always been happier with primes. The camera is heavy as is and setting it up in portrait position on a pano head with a very heavy zoom.

I'm tempted to get the 28 2.8 for both the weight and cost savings. I've found that cheap primes are better than most zooms just because of the simplicity of their design. If I hate it I can probably sell it on ebay and get something more expensive.

VERY EXCITED about the upcoming mac version! Can't wait!

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jayelwin
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by jayelwin » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:25 pm

Now I'm intrigued by the Sigma 24mm 1.8 prime for canon. Would be a real savings, got good reviews stopped down, and is a lot cheaper.

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by francois.simond » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Sample images in pbase : http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/24_18_ex_asp_dg_macro

I see some barrel distortion and have not found full size pics.

Interesting comments on http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=126&sort=7&cat=38&page=1
François Simond

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jayelwin
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by jayelwin » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:40 pm

Which shot had barrel distortion? I think those were using a small frame sensor digital camera. The bricks in the first shot look pretty good.

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francois.simond
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by francois.simond » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:46 pm

Shoots are choosed randomly, i do not know which is your "first" ;)
François Simond

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by francois.simond » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:51 pm

Anyway, this is not scientific at all but what do you thing of http://www.pbase.com/image/27391106 & http://www.pbase.com/image/31479234
François Simond

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jayelwin
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by jayelwin » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:48 pm

Ahh.. you are right about the random selection of photos - I did not see those. I think the photo of the Westin looks pretty straight. The green house may see a little barrel along the top. Shouldn't the software help correct for that, especially once it can work with fisheye shots?

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by francois.simond » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:08 pm

Yes, AutoPano Pro automatically corrects geometrical distortions, but it is always safer to have better inputs (sometimes a particular lens distortion slighty differs from models)
François Simond

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by GURL » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:15 pm

Dxo, PTLens and Autopano Pro: any experiment, any advice?

I believe post-processing is the right solution for very wide-angle and fisheye lenses (and suspect major improvements still belong to the future...)

Presently, DxO only accept unprocessed raw images.

PTLens does not care of direct access to raw format but, when using it to remove color aberrations, it's necessary to remove some few colored pixels along the borders and barrel distortion correction may slightly change width and height and/or FOV of source images too. As far as I understand the way APP is using EXIF data, this is not a problem, but knowing wether or not using APP and of one of those programs is possible (including any other raw processor or specialiazed software wich take care of vignetting, CA and barrel) looks as an important point in selecting a very wide-angle lens or fisheye.
Georges

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by adhack » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:29 am

of those lenses, i'd take the 24 though I thikn Nikon's is better. THere's also the sigma 24 f1.8 fora bout that price.

while im a big fan of PT Lens for regular shooting, it made for a disaster in autopano when I tried it. aPP seems to do a good job at removing barrel distortion.
Last edited by adhack on Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by AlexandreJ » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:24 am

APP is doing a strong distortion correction (barrel, pincushion, etc). The used model is better than PanoTools model (PtLens). Now I cannot compare with DxO as the model from this software is not public.
Currently, nothing more is done in APP (no CA, no purple fringe correction).
Vignetting, I have a new model of color correction that handles this case, but in fact, the quality of the blender is enough to remove most of the vignetting.

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by jayelwin » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:11 pm

So I went with the 24 2.8 Canon lens. It was only a bit more than the 28 2.8 and I wanted it right away to bring with me on vacation. Let's see how it produces - I'll post some examples when I get back.

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by Daniel_Buck » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:57 am

I have had very good results with my Zeiss 28mm Distagon on a 1Ds2, I picked it up used for $200, plus $95 for an adapter.

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by superrune » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:59 pm

It doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it - but you should really check out the Sigma 20mm f/1.8. It's a real nice lens with surprisingly sharp edges (stopped up) at a very good price. It has a slight colour cast (a tad warm), but that's nothing a white balance adjustment won't fix.

Read some subjective reviews on it here:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=125&sort=7&cat=38&page=1

Rune

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by SimDC » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:37 pm

Cheapest wide-angle if you already own Nikon lenses :

buy a Nikon to Canon adapter and use you Nikon lenses.

Drawback : you lose autofocus and autoexposure , BUT as you do panoramas,
those settings are supposed to be Manual anyway
(you use the EOS in manual setting,
on Nikon set full aperture,focus ,
then set preferred aperture (for depth-of-field)
on EOS determine shutter speed according to EOS meter (probably on most lit part of the pano)
SHOOT !...)

Dont use those cheap plastic adapters that include a lens, use the thin metal adapters.
I use them with old but good AI-S lenses.
One thing I have not tried yet is my old 180deg Nikon 8mm because it protrudes INSIDE the mount and it might
touch the EOS mirror.If the lens has no part that gets out of the adapter you should be safe...

SimDC

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by nputtick » Mon May 01, 2006 10:19 pm

AlexandreJ wrote:APP is doing a strong distortion correction (barrel, pincushion, etc). The used model is better than PanoTools model (PtLens).

Andre, I realised APP was doing distortion correction - it tells us during the initial pano generation. However I wonder how is it doing this (OK, I realise that may be your "secret") - does APP know which lens (from EXIF), and the characteristics of that lens, or is it measuring the discrepancies between control points in adjacent images and using that to determine the type and amount of distortion? If so, is such an analysis consistent and repeatable?

I have had ghosts / discontinuities with my WA zooms (17-40 and 24-105 Canons) which I had presumed are due to lens distortions.

Regards
Nigel

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by hankkarl » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:50 am

Most (if not all) of the panos I take are taken at a very wide DOF so the apperature is f/16 or thereabouts. Check the reveiws carefully, some lenses perform differently at f/16 than at thier widest aperature.

Some have said the 24mm TS-E does not vignette on the 5D becasue the glass is wider than on the other 24mm lenses (so that you can tilt and shift the lens).


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