"drag and drop" grid so that one can manually add row/column images  

Got some great idea or a feature request? Post it here and discuss it. The most requested concepts are usually implemented, as Autopano Pro / Giga is very community driven.
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MJSfoto1956
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"drag and drop" grid so that one can manually add row/column images

by MJSfoto1956 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 pm

there should be a configurable "grid" interface that allows one to manually drop images into a row/column pattern.

this is useful for those of us who use non-motorized 360 deg panoheads. The issue being that it is not always convenient to shoot in a particular order or even with a fixed/consistent exposure for each image in the set.

Michael

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by wjh31 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:50 pm

something related:
i use a non-motorized head, but shoot in rows/columns also, however theres never a fixed angle between shots, so especially with a high number of images per row, its hard to keep the exact same number in each row, so if to be able to say this set of images is one row, this set is a second row, etc etc...

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by digipano » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:04 pm

+1 my support too for this feature.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:58 pm

wjh31 wrote:something related:
i use a non-motorized head, but shoot in rows/columns also, however theres never a fixed angle between shots, so especially with a high number of images per row, its hard to keep the exact same number in each row, so if to be able to say this set of images is one row, this set is a second row, etc etc...

Then drag-n-drop on a grid isn't going to work for you is it?

IMO if you plan to do a lot of these sort of panos ypu'd be well advised to get a motorized head.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:59 pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:there should be a configurable "grid" interface that allows one to manually drop images into a row/column pattern.

this is useful for those of us who use non-motorized 360 deg panoheads. The issue being that it is not always convenient to shoot in a particular order or even with a fixed/consistent exposure for each image in the set.

Michael

What do you hope such a feature would offer that APP/APG doesn't currently manage to do for you?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:03 pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:this is useful for those of us who use non-motorized 360 deg panoheads. The issue being that it is not always convenient to shoot in a particular order or even with a fixed/consistent exposure for each image in the set.

Michael

You do not have to shoot in a particular order when shooting with a Merlin/Papywizard robotic head - this ystem supports pause/resume, and forward/rewind, and custom presets so you can shoot in more or less any pattern you like. Though quite why you would need to I'm not sure.

Not sure what varying expsure for each shot has to do with using or not using a robotic head - not sure why you would do this anyway.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by digipano » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:09 pm

mediavets wrote:What do you hope such a feature would offer that APP/APG doesn't currently manage to do for you?

When APG fails often on featureless walls or sky we can lay each image in respective section of the grid to assist APG fine tuning its location, as of now you have to remember the Y/P/R parameters for each image & enter the value manually to do this.

When shooting manually often you get irregular overlap this would help in that case also.

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by wjh31 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:11 pm

mediavets wrote:IMO if you plan to do a lot of these sort of panos ypu'd be well advised to get a motorized head.

some of us are poor!

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:02 pm

wjh31 wrote:
mediavets wrote:IMO if you plan to do a lot of these sort of panos you'd be well advised to get a motorized head.

some of us are poor!

Ah, but as a Cambridge graduate you won't be for long...
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:13 pm

digipano wrote:
mediavets wrote:What do you hope such a feature would offer that APP/APG doesn't currently manage to do for you?

When APG fails often on featureless walls or sky we can lay each image in respective section of the grid to assist APG fine tuning its location, as of now you have to remember the Y/P/R parameters for each image & enter the value manually to do this.

If you were to shoot a consistent pattern using a manual pano head then APG's template feature could/would help you; or the Gigapan Import filter if you used a Gigapan compatible shooting pattern.

BTW why would you not shoot in a consistent pattern when using a manual pano head?

When shooting manually often you get irregular overlap this would help in that case also.

I'm not sure it would - a grid would surely 'imply' regularity of overlap which your image set would not have. The only thing it might assist with is the placement of 'feaureless' images. And ultimately the answer to that problem is to use the appropriate camera/lens/pano-head setup, and shooting technique, for the particular pano scene - there is no one size that fits all.
Last edited by mediavets on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by MJSfoto1956 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:09 pm

mediavets wrote:What do you hope such a feature would offer that APP/APG doesn't currently manage to do for you?

very simple: the freedom to use a panohead with clickstops and choose an arbitrary order of shooting. FYI, I own a gigapan and its inability to let me shoot "in any order" is what kills the whole motorized thing for me. IMHO, manually moving the panohaed is better and more controllable under MANY conditions, not limited to:

- moving/changing light (I might want to capture the arbitrarily "primary" frames in the "good" light and leave the less-important frames in "bad" light)
- moving subject (there is no need to explain this. It should be obvious that manual rotation of the panohead is superior)

So, rather than feel sorry for us who choose not to use motorized heads, I would imaging the APP would be happy to introduce a feature that nobody else has. And fortunately, the basic concepts for the "gigapan" matrix are already in place: one would only need to introduce a fairly simple GUI to allow manual arrangement of images on a grid. (as opposed to just algorithmic arrangement on a grid)

Does that make sense?

Michael

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by digipano » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:40 pm

Basically this request boils down to the manual way of telling APP what the user wants, if APP had manual CP placement we could have done it without the need of grid.

BTW why would you not shoot in a consistent pattern when using a manual pano head?

Bcoz we don't live in an ideal world,shooting conditions are not always supportive moving subjects are not in my control "always" & so is changing light as mentioned by MJSfoto1956.

Another example I recently faced was while shooting a perfect rectangular Vertical Mural 18 feet high & width 6 feet.

My setup allowed me to mount my camera around 7 feet high to shoot a grid of images but basically I was left with a tilted view of top.
In the final file I had to correct verticals & I needed a "perfect vertically aligned rectangular" In this case as I come down I needed less no. of frames due to camera angle/distance changing.

If I shoot the same setup with a tele lens if the distance allowed then my angle becomes further acute & I would prefer to shoot more frames per row looking through the viewfinder rather than missing or having lesser overlap which APP will have problem with.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:27 pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
mediavets wrote:What do you hope such a feature would offer that APP/APG doesn't currently manage to do for you?

very simple: the freedom to use a panohead with clickstops and choose an arbitrary order of shooting. FYI, I own a gigapan and its inability to let me shoot "in any order" is what kills the whole motorized thing for me. IMHO, manually moving the panohaed is better and more controllable under MANY conditions, not limited to:

- moving/changing light (I might want to capture the arbitrarily "primary" frames in the "good" light and leave the less-important frames in "bad" light)
- moving subject (there is no need to explain this. It should be obvious that manual rotation of the panohead is superior)

The Merlin/Papywizard system can accommodate these requirements even if the Gigapan robot cannot.

So, rather than feel sorry for us who choose not to use motorized heads, I would imaging the APP would be happy to introduce a feature that nobody else has. And fortunately, the basic concepts for the "gigapan" matrix are already in place: one would only need to introduce a fairly simple GUI to allow manual arrangement of images on a grid. (as opposed to just algorithmic arrangement on a grid)

Does that make sense?

Michael

It may make some sort of sense but I cannot quite envisage a UI that could allow manual placement on such a grid for a matrix/mosiac comprising very many images (says hundreds).

How many images do you typically have in one of your matrices/mosaics?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:33 pm

digipano wrote:Basically this request boils down to the manual way of telling APP what the user wants, if APP had manual CP placement we could have done it without the need of grid.

You've lost me now - APP/APG can place images that have sufficient features already - and manual CP placement cannot/doesn't work for 'featureless' images.

But in any case manual CP placement is promised for later this year.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by MJSfoto1956 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:00 am

mediavets wrote:It may make some sort of sense but I cannot quite envisage a UI that could allow manual placement on such a grid for a matrix/mosiac comprising very many images (says hundreds).

How many images do you typically have in one of your matrices/mosaics?

Well, for starters, one could easily imagine an interface that allowed both automatic AND manual override. As a minor example, Gigapan allows you to delete/add images that might be out of order (for example, a car ruined your shot, so you backed up and shot the scene more than once). Once the entire set of images is uploaded into the software, it is pretty easy to see the "bad" image(s) and deleting it causes the other images fill in the gap and re-align themselves. Since their software literally shows hundreds of images, I'm sure the talented people at APP can handle such a trivial task.

That being said, I'm certainly not interested in giga anything. In general, I try to keep my images to 40"x60" max -- at 200dpi, that comes to only 8000x12000 pixels. And again that is maximum. Since most decent digital cameras nowadays deliver approx 3000x4000 pixels, we aren't necessarily talking about a huge number of images. (although, I *have* stitched some nearly 100-image panos) I find that most of my panos are generally no more 20-30 images -- an amount that would be trivial to manage manually. I think there are far more people out there interested in so-called "small" panos than you might imagine. Clearly the real market is for totally "automagic" stitching, and that is where APP does have an edge. Whether or not the camera manufacturers build it into their cameras in the future is anybody's guess (Sony for sure).

Anyway, I hope the emphasis on everything geared towards "giga" gets tempered by more easily-obtainable real-world applications such as what I described above for print-centric photographers who simply want fast and accurate software without requiring purchasing a lot of fancy (and frankly, unnecessary for most applications) hardware.

Michael

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by mediavets » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:24 am

Michael,

Now I understand where you are coming from.

And, yes, I can see that this proposed 'grid' manual postioning feature would be relevant and viable for such types of shooting.

20-30 images is about as many as I would wish to shoot with a manual pano head. Maybe it's old age (or laziness and failure to concentrate) ) but more than that and I find I tend to lose track of where I am in the shooting sequence.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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