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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:41 pm 
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I followed this posting about trying to use multiple focal lengths in combination with the Gigapan-importplugin:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=112377#p112377

it could be great if the Import wizzards in general would allow using multiple focal lengths.
Or more in detail: autopano could allow multiple runs of the Import plugins and for each run a layer could be created holding the images of the according focal length.
And according to the CP-detection options that exists for the stack/Groups an additional flag could be available to allow CP recognition between these focal layers.

it can be done without my above Feature request - as the impressive 320 gigapixel pano from London is showing. But exact here the improvement could be achieved by such a new Feature: Zoom into the 320 giga Londin pano very deep. near the deepest zoom Level you see a focal change and the objects are not fitting, houses are moving some meters or even more. There seems to be no CP Connection between These focal layers.

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:29 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
I followed this posting about trying to use multiple focal lengths in combination with the Gigapan-importplugin:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=112377#p112377

it could be great if the Import wizzards in general would allow using multiple focal lengths.
Georg

How would that work for, say, Mosaic mode inPapywizard (or compatible) or the Gigapan Import wizard where the shooting pattern is a regular grid/matrix the spacing determined by the focal length and camera orientation?

The spacing of the grid, and number of rows and columns, for any pano FOV will vary depending on focal length (and/or camera orientation).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:04 am 
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mediavets wrote:
gkaefer wrote:
I followed this posting about trying to use multiple focal lengths in combination with the Gigapan-importplugin:
http://www.kolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=112377#p112377

it could be great if the Import wizzards in general would allow using multiple focal lengths.
Georg

How would that work for, say, Mosaic mode inPapywizard (or compatible) or the Gigapan Import wizard where the shooting pattern is a regular grid/matrix the spacing determined by the focal length and camera orientation?

The spacing of the grid, and number of rows and columns, for any pano FOV will vary depending on focal length (and/or camera orientation).

take your pano x times, for each focal length take a new pano.
use the Images (and xmls if created) as normal.

the Import wizzards Need no knowledge of this. the smart part has to be done in apg.
when first set of Images for first tsaken focal (via Import plugin) is loaded than apg should be smart enough (to not start the detection but) to to the same for other "panos"/layers/focal lengths.
if the x Image-sets are loaded than the detection should do ist work as normal - but now for all layers/focal lengths. if this is done for each focal seperateley.
than CPs should be searched between the layers (each layer/focal length can be seen as one Image).

in result the layers are fitting and you get an layerd pano.
panotour than can take this layerd pano to create deeper zooms where higher focals are available.

I dont Need that if I take my 360x180 pano at 400mm...
but if I take a 35mm pano covering a sphere (for water/sky etc.) and a small reagion only at 400mm to cover the Details...

Georg

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:15 am 
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gkaefer wrote:
take your pano x times, for each focal length take a new pano.
use the Images (and xmls if created) as normal.

I dont Need that if I take my 360x180 pano at 400mm...
but if I take a 35mm pano covering a sphere (for water/sky etc.) and a small reagion only at 400mm to cover the Details...

Guess it´s easier to use 400mm for the whole shooting when you do a mosaic, don´t you think? ;):cool:

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:59 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
gkaefer wrote:
take your pano x times, for each focal length take a new pano.
use the Images (and xmls if created) as normal.

I dont Need that if I take my 360x180 pano at 400mm...
but if I take a 35mm pano covering a sphere (for water/sky etc.) and a small reagion only at 400mm to cover the Details...

Guess it´s easier to use 400mm for the whole shooting when you do a mosaic, don´t you think? ;):cool:

best, Klaus

yes and no. with currently possible Workflows with apg yes. but here you also have backdraws... I dont wanna fix a sky taken with 400mm covering 50% of the pano,
I also dont wanna wait useless hours over hours (and some example on the Forum Show us days and even more) to have this work done.

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:21 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
I dont wanna fix a sky taken with 400mm covering 50% of the pano,

Using the xml usually you don´t need to fix anything.

gkaefer wrote:
I also dont wanna wait useless hours over hours (and some example on the Forum Show us days and even more) to have this work done.

Well - nothing comes from nothing, right? :D:cool:

I guess fumbeling with mixed lenses and so in the end wouldn´t really save time . .

If you mean to shoot a SPHERE using 400mm . . that´s another issue . . .

Did i get you right: you meant shooting a sphere using 35mm and having a selected area which you shot using a 400mm for details?
Mixing the 35mm sphere with the 400mm mosaic to ONE spherical pano?

How would that work? You either need to scale the 35mm shots up or scale the 400mm shots down. So you wouldn´t win anything, right?

Maybe i misunderstand completely . . :cool:

best to you, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:28 am 
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I thought from Georg's first post he was suggesting an option to import multipul focal lengths using the same lens/camera simular to images caputred using software like Helicon Remote but where apg would process the multipul focal images, which is a good idea since a 400mm lens would be way out of most peoples budget...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:48 am 
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Destiny wrote:
I thought from Georg's first post he was suggesting an option to import multipul focal lengths using the same lens/camera simular to images caputred using software like Helicon Remote but where apg would process the multipul focal images, which is a good idea since a 400mm lens would be way out of most peoples budget...

Destiny
From Thialand :)

I don´t think that´s what he meant - he uses HeliconFocus already for quite a time afaik.

It´s about mixing different focal-lengths for shooting a sphere - but have a dedicated region in the pano in higher resolution than the rest.

Basically that´s a good idea! Think about shooting a landscape as a sphere using a short lens - but shooting a part of the scene additionally with a long lens for being able to zoom in deeper into THIS part of interest.

Instead of shooting some thousands of pictures for the whole sphere though only 200 would be of interest to zoom in and the rest is water and sky for example . . .

But i don´t know whether that´s a way which pays off.

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:04 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
Basically that´s a good idea! Think about shooting a landscape as a sphere using a short lens - but shooting a part of the scene additionally with a long lens for being able to zoom in deeper into THIS part of interest.

Instead of shooting some thousands of pictures for the whole sphere though only 200 would be of interest to zoom in and the rest is water and sky for example . . .

I would love to be able to do this! Sometimes a sky changes very rapidly with cloud movement and since no one really zooms in tight on it, you could shoot the sky at 200mm and the landscape at 400mm--saving time, storage space, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:12 pm 
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aaronpriest wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Basically that´s a good idea! Think about shooting a landscape as a sphere using a short lens - but shooting a part of the scene additionally with a long lens for being able to zoom in deeper into THIS part of interest.

Instead of shooting some thousands of pictures for the whole sphere though only 200 would be of interest to zoom in and the rest is water and sky for example . . .

I would love to be able to do this! Sometimes a sky changes very rapidly with cloud movement and since no one really zooms in tight on it, you could shoot the sky at 200mm and the landscape at 400mm--saving time, storage space, etc.

This is a Bingo! citing Christoph Walz ;)

in practice the 35mm sphere filled up with partial sphere panos in 100mm+200mm etc would be great.
if i zoom into the 35mm part I can zoom until my defined Limit is reached
if I zoom into the 200mm part I can zoom far deeper until I reach the Limit for this area.
would be great if this is possible (as additional Feature request)

but even with far smaller focals... this could be great: using a 15mm on a FF Cam. taking a full sphere and partial spheres with up to 50/80mm on areas where Details on Scene are located.

application examples:

outside, park are with a Castle which is around 200m away (park+castle fullsphere with 15mm and the Castle itself additional with 50+100mm)
inside, exibitions with the Location shot in short focal and the exhibits with longer focals

this all can be done now without the Import wizzards.

but it would be great to have the XML file Support also in These cases.
workflow I can imagine:

1. take your panos (you wanna combine) with your head which allows XML file creation.
2. use first XML file and according Images to run Import wizard as normal - but without detection of pano
3. the Import wizards starts over and you use the second XML file and the according Images
4. after doing this for all XML fiels and Images you may say:
(5a. detect single panos without combining them into one Panorama. you finlly get x single detected panos in seperate Group Windows.)
5b. detect the panos and put them as seperate layers into one pano.
6. The existing Option "Blending preset->Cutting->Priority to LONG FOCAL should be enabled by Default in this case

@Klaus: Point 6. is existing now and doing the Magic now if you mix the focals loading all Images into one Group before detection. The final pano get rendered and the Details in the Long focals are kept.


klausesser wrote:
Using the xml usually you don´t need to fix anything.

clear. exactly. But using XML files now is impossible if you wanna mix focals. so now you have to fix all sky, water, whit walls etc because if you mix now different focals you only can do it by NOT using your XML files. This is the reason the Import wizards should be enhanced here...

@Destiny. Dont know if I get your idea with the helicon. Because of the different FOV covered by each Image (comparing the different focals) this will only work on a layer Basis. First each Image of same focal should be meged to a pano than between the so created panos the CPs detection should take park to find identical CP on different layers. All as already existing using the layers but now this should be also be possible using the impoart wizards and not beeing limited to one layer (focal).

Georg

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Last edited by gkaefer on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:21 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
@Klaus: Point 6. is existing now and doing the Magic now if you mix the focals loading all Images into one Group before detection. The final pano get rendered and the Details in the Long focals are kept.

Yeah - but: what about zooming in the ranges you did NOT shoot hires? :D:cool:
They will look terrible when you zoom to 100%.
If you do NOT allow zooming to 100% you´ll not have deep zoom in the hires-area. So: how would it work?
Can you have areas zoomable to 100% and other areas NOT zoomable to 100% in the same image/pano?
Would you accept to have a hires-looking area in the image beneath a low-res area . . . :rolleyes:

I mean that´s not a clever way. At least i can´t imagined how it would work ;)

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:46 am 
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klausesser wrote:
gkaefer wrote:
@Klaus: Point 6. is existing now and doing the Magic now if you mix the focals loading all Images into one Group before detection. The final pano get rendered and the Details in the Long focals are kept.

Yeah - but: what about zooming in the ranges you did NOT shoot hires? :D:cool:
They will look terrible when you zoom to 100%.
If you do NOT allow zooming to 100% you´ll not have deep zoom in the hires-area. So: how would it work?
Can you have areas zoomable to 100% and other areas NOT zoomable to 100% in the same image/pano?
Would you accept to have a hires-looking area in the image beneath a low-res area . . . :rolleyes:

I mean that´s not a clever way. At least i can´t imagined how it would work ;)

best, Klaus

with current apg: yes - it will look terrible.
thats why I did say that the max. zoomlevel should be selectable for each used focal.

Georg

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:52 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
thats why I did say that the max. zoomlevel should be selectable for each used focal.

Hey Georg!

How would that be achievable?

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:29 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
gkaefer wrote:
thats why I did say that the max. zoomlevel should be selectable for each used focal.

Hey Georg!

How would that be achievable?

best, Klaus

sorry - cant provide any sourcecode here - at least not for free :lol:
no serious... clear this is with sure not easy to achieve.
But a sphere finally has fix coordinates.
the Center of each Image (the coordinates) is known
so why not making a layer where the panoplayer gets the info where the coordinates are located and the according max. zoomlevel at this place....

lg
Georg

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:52 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
so why not making a layer where the panoplayer gets the info where the coordinates are located and the according max. zoomlevel at this place....

Right - good idea - why not? :D

But again: how would that be achieved?

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:52 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
gkaefer wrote:
so why not making a layer where the panoplayer gets the info where the coordinates are located and the according max. zoomlevel at this place....

Right - good idea - why not? :D

But again: how would that be achieved?

best, Klaus

the zoom max value is known - it is in ptp 1.8 available since "decades".
using JavaScript the available one layer applied Option should be enhanced to allow more than one layer. each layer represents a focal used. so if you direct your FOV over an Image (looking at specific Point in your pano) thiis Image belongs to an layer with short or longer focal length and depending that the max. zoom Level should be applied.

similar is existing on krpano side today with the layered panos (the car... hovering over the car the Color is changing, hovering over the lights will switch on the lights, opening the doors etc. why not dynamically appliying the max zoom Level value....

Georg

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:07 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
similar is existing on krpano side today with the layered panos (the car... hovering over the car the Color is changing, hovering over the lights will switch on the lights, opening the doors etc. why not dynamically appliying the max zoom Level value....

Changing color and lights doesn´t mean change resolution. "Dynamically applying the max. zoom level value" means it must automatically zoom out when you reach the layer of less resolution.
So the viewer might be zooming backward an foreward without you doing something - each time it comes in a range containing different layer-dephts . . .
How would you define the zone between the stages? Does it happen abruptly? Does the change happen softly?

I understand what you mean - but i wonder how it can be practically realized resp. handled!

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:12 pm 
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well many variations are conceivable:
+ as soon as Pixels of the shorter focals are visible the zoomout (to the selected max zoom of the shorter focal) could take place
+ if no more Pixels of the shorter focal are visible the zoomin (to the selected max zoom of the longer focal) could take place

+ no automatic zoomin if changing from shorter to longer focal
+ automatic zoomout if changing from longer to shorter focal Areas.

many other variations are possible. if lets say 30mm and 50mm are covering the full sphere than the zooming can be done like in existing ptp 1.8 with the different tile sized panos. if another focal lets say 150mm is availabel is some Areas than user could be informed by some sort of online button that a deeper zoom is possible now if leaving the longer focal area the automatic zoomout can be done.

lg
Georg

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:07 pm 
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gkaefer wrote:
well many variations are conceivable:
+ as soon as Pixels of the shorter focals are visible the zoomout (to the selected max zoom of the shorter focal) could take place
+ if no more Pixels of the shorter focal are visible the zoomin (to the selected max zoom of the longer focal) could take place

+ no automatic zoomin if changing from shorter to longer focal
+ automatic zoomout if changing from longer to shorter focal Areas.

many other variations are possible. if lets say 30mm and 50mm are covering the full sphere than the zooming can be done like in existing ptp 1.8 with the different tile sized panos. if another focal lets say 150mm is availabel is some Areas than user could be informed by some sort of online button that a deeper zoom is possible now if leaving the longer focal area the automatic zoomout can be done.

lg
Georg

Mmmh - i´m curious what´s coming! :cool: Thx for the explanation, Georg!
Happy eastereggs :D

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:48 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
Mmmh - i´m curious what´s coming! :cool: Thx for the explanation, Georg!
Happy eastereggs :D

best, Klaus

multi-focal-usage seems to be demanded. if you look to the Forum during past weeks the Topic is coming back like a boomerang.
but as you did mention betwen the lines... I dont expect this can be easly be achieved with safety it's not easy to program ....
:cool:

Georg

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Last edited by gkaefer on Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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