Create simple flash file of single pano from Autopano editor window...  

Got some great idea or a feature request? Post it here and discuss it. The most requested concepts are usually implemented, as Autopano Pro / Giga is very community driven.
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CheeseAndJamSandwich
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Create simple flash file of single pano from Autopano editor window...

by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:59 pm

Hi Can we have a tool (in Autopano) to allow us to create a flash file of the pano image we've just created?
With just the normal options of sizes, viewpoints, auto-rotate, etc...
Perhaps the button is one-click with defaults, or pulldown to chose settings... With ability to use same naming tokens as the pano.

At the moment i have to close autopano, and then open panotour (otherwise it'll crash) and drop the pano into it to , then copy/past the pano name in to build it...

Lots of steps... I normally do them after in batch... but really want to do them on the fly with a single click...


Edit: And as mediavets pointed out, this functionality was in the old Autopano (1.4?)
Last edited by CheeseAndJamSandwich on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:46 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Hi Can we have a tool to allow us to create a flash file of the pano image we've just created?

I don´t understand: you already have a Flash-file when generating a pano using PTP.
It´s called: "xxx.swf"

When you choose the embed option you don´t need to have more files. But you can´t edit anything then.

best, KLaus
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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:59 am

klausesser wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Hi Can we have a tool to allow us to create a flash file of the pano image we've just created?

I don´t understand: you already have a Flash-file when generating a pano using PTP.
It´s called: "xxx.swf"

When you choose the embed option you don´t need to have more files. But you can´t edit anything then.

best, KLaus

I'm talking about creating the file from Autopano.

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by Phil Howard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:01 am

I believe APP is for making images alone, not for tours with their own view mechanism. I see no point in using Flash just for a simple flat image. I have seen pano tours done in Flash that do a lot more than just sweeping around an image. If you want to do those "more" things, I assume you need to get PTP. My understanding is APP is about making images and PTP is about presenting them.

So it depends on what you want. If you want the control Flash gives, go that route. If not, skip Flash.

In simplest form, a web browser loading just an image can pan and scroll around it. With some Javascript, buttons can be added and continuous panning or scrolling done that way. You don't get everything you could out of Flash or an application, but it's better than a plain file.

I have written some prototype Javascript to do this. The sample is at http://phil.ipal.org/vance/. View source to see the JS code embedded in the page. To use it for your own image on your own web page, you'll need to tweak it to what your image is. If there is interest, I could be persuaded to resume development and make it easier to use, which would discover all the parameters of the image and set up the DIV structure for it via DOM. I'd have to re-research how that's done since I'm not an active JS developer (I've done JS on a dozen or so pages).

FYI, all my computers at work, and all but one at home, have no Flash, due to my job being in the security field (I'm not a pro photographer ... it's a hobby for me).

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:55 am

PTP is for creating tours... Taking you around places, jumping from pano to pano, lots of interactive stuff... That it does well.

I just want to create, say, a fully embedded flash file, for the one pano i've just created in Autopano. So i can then look around the 360(x180) image as it's designed to be seen.

Just drop the swf on chrome, etc and it shows up perfectly fine.

If i then chose to do fancy stuff, then i'll deffo use Panotour.

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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:59 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:I'm talking about creating the file from Autopano.

Autopano is a stitcher. Stitchers usually don´t make Flash-files. They make equirectangular images - of which you make an interactive Flash-file using PTP or KRPano.
PTP is a GUI (graphic-user-interface) for KRPano - so in fact you use the KRPano "engine".

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:05 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:PTP is for creating tours...

Yes and no :cool:. Before you can make a tour you have to make panos. That´s what PTP does in the first.You import equirectangular images which you stitched in the stitcher (Autopano, PTGui) and make them interactive panos then.
These interactive panos you can combine to a tour of several panos in PTP.

best, Klaus
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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:10 am

klausesser wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:I'm talking about creating the file from Autopano.

Autopano is a stitcher. Stitcher don´t make Flash-files. They make equirectangular images - of which you make an interactive Flash-file using PTP or KRPano.
PTP is a GUI (graphic-user-interface) for KRPano - so in fact you use the KRPano "engine".

best, Klaus

My licence for APG includes Panotour (not Pro) so i own the KRPano engine... Lets stick what's needed of it in APG so that single pano can be made in one click of a mouse. saving masses of time.

Software is all about making our life easier. Gluing functionality and tools together and making workflow a joy to use...
These forums are here so that us users can feed back to the creators info on usage and needs.
You may not personally need some functionality that's being discussed, but there's a million ways to use any tool, we all have different needs.

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by Phil Howard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:15 am

If what you have done so far only needs left-right panning (is not higher than maybe 80% of the web page height), it would probably fit into my existing Javascript. I'd have to tweak the JS code since I never implemented the future ideas of having it get all that info from the DOM in the web browser.

For larger panos, I still think JS can do this. I just haven't done it because of lack of interest. I did what I have done so far simply because I cannot run Flash on my desktop (since I also use it for some work development and management related to our security stuff where I work, this machine must conform to the company security requirements, which disallow Flash). I have a netbook that has Flash, but it is also limited to the small screen.

Javascript does have enough facility to do a fairly adequate job on flat panos of any size the browser can handle, and then allow automated panning/scrolling, or drag-to-view. Rectilinear views where the displays sizes vary while panning or scrolling will probably need Flash. I've seen some tricks people have done to fake it in JS, but it didn't come out so well.

If you have a 360 degree file not higher than about 800px to 900px, I could probably make it work with the JS code I have now.

I was thinking of making my code work by simply triggering it with a reference to a named IMG in the HTML (HTML4 would be adequate), and it would then juggle the image around into the layered and paired DIV structure it pans with. It duplicates the image side by side, wrapped in a DIV that gets shifted in position at the programmed frame rate (my previous example is 25 fps). That would make it easier to add it to web pages by just adding the reference to load the code, and adding an onload trigger for the IMG tag, passing the IMG name. That development would be some work, and I didn't see enough interest to proceed.

It works with my APP 1.4.2 results just fine. I'd think it would work with any 360 pano.

But if you absolutely want Flash, I don't have any suggestion since I don't do Flash.

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by Phil Howard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:22 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Software is all about making our life easier. Gluing functionality and tools together and making workflow a joy to use...
These forums are here so that us users can feed back to the creators info on usage and needs.
You may not personally need some functionality that's being discussed, but there's a million ways to use any tool, we all have different needs.

So maybe what you want is when you are ready to run the stitching rendering, if you also have the licensed program that can make it into a Flash file, you can check a box (and access the setup to configure it) all in one integrated app workspace. So then you run the render, and when it's done, there's your .swf file (in addition to any others you requested).

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:24 am

Phil Howard wrote:If what you have done so far only needs left-right panning (is not higher than maybe 80% of the web page height), it would probably fit into my existing Javascript. I'd have to tweak the JS code since I never implemented the future ideas of having it get all that info from the DOM in the web browser.

For larger panos, I still think JS can do this. I just haven't done it because of lack of interest. I did what I have done so far simply because I cannot run Flash on my desktop (since I also use it for some work development and management related to our security stuff where I work, this machine must conform to the company security requirements, which disallow Flash). I have a netbook that has Flash, but it is also limited to the small screen.

Javascript does have enough facility to do a fairly adequate job on flat panos of any size the browser can handle, and then allow automated panning/scrolling, or drag-to-view. Rectilinear views where the displays sizes vary while panning or scrolling will probably need Flash. I've seen some tricks people have done to fake it in JS, but it didn't come out so well.

If you have a 360 degree file not higher than about 800px to 900px, I could probably make it work with the JS code I have now.

I was thinking of making my code work by simply triggering it with a reference to a named IMG in the HTML (HTML4 would be adequate), and it would then juggle the image around into the layered and paired DIV structure it pans with. It duplicates the image side by side, wrapped in a DIV that gets shifted in position at the programmed frame rate (my previous example is 25 fps). That would make it easier to add it to web pages by just adding the reference to load the code, and adding an onload trigger for the IMG tag, passing the IMG name. That development would be some work, and I didn't see enough interest to proceed.

It works with my APP 1.4.2 results just fine. I'd think it would work with any 360 pano.

But if you absolutely want Flash, I don't have any suggestion since I don't do Flash.

Sorry phil, i don't need other code, i just want Autopano to create a flash file with one click of a mouse...
...Which Panotour eventually does when you've shut down apg, started pt, drag dropped the pano onto it, then go back and copied the file name, then click build, browse, find the folder it lives in, paste the filename in, click build... Then it very quickly creates the flash file (with embedding etc, saved as defaults.) Now i can close PT, reopen APG and move onto the next pano if all is correct... Not fun when you do it enough...

Autopano is very slick, because so many workflow needs have been addressed... This is just another one, for us user that use it this way.

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:26 am

Phil Howard wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Software is all about making our life easier. Gluing functionality and tools together and making workflow a joy to use...
These forums are here so that us users can feed back to the creators info on usage and needs.
You may not personally need some functionality that's being discussed, but there's a million ways to use any tool, we all have different needs.

So maybe what you want is when you are ready to run the stitching rendering, if you also have the licensed program that can make it into a Flash file, you can check a box (and access the setup to configure it) all in one integrated app workspace. So then you run the render, and when it's done, there's your .swf file (in addition to any others you requested).

Yes please. Or optionally afterwards on demand.

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by mediavets » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:31 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Hi Can we have a tool (in Autopano) to allow us to create a flash file of the pano image we've just created?
With just the normal options of sizes, viewpoints, auto-rotate, etc...
Perhaps the button is one-click with defaults, or pulldown to chose settings... With ability to use same naming tokens as the pano.

At the moment i have to close autopano, and then open panotour (otherwise it'll crash)

I can have APG and PTP running at the same time - on a Windows XP 32-bit system - I wonder why you can't?

and drop the pano into it to , then copy/past the pano name in to build it...

Lots of steps... I normally do them after in batch... but really want to do them on the fly with a single click...

PTP has a quick Export option - does PT have this too? - which is similar to the basic Flash output feature that existed in old versions of APP/APG but which was removed a long time ago.


Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:37 am

mediavets wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Hi Can we have a tool (in Autopano) to allow us to create a flash file of the pano image we've just created?
With just the normal options of sizes, viewpoints, auto-rotate, etc...
Perhaps the button is one-click with defaults, or pulldown to chose settings... With ability to use same naming tokens as the pano.

At the moment i have to close autopano, and then open panotour (otherwise it'll crash)

I can have APG and PTP running at the same time - on a Windows XP 32-bit system - I wonder why you can't?

and drop the pano into it to , then copy/past the pano name in to build it...

Lots of steps... I normally do them after in batch... but really want to do them on the fly with a single click...

PTP has a quick Export option - does PT have this too? - which is similar to the basic Flash output feature that existed in old versions of APP/APG but which was removed a long time ago.

Yeah, the GPU on my Sony Z13 laptop obviously isn't man enough to run both as it fails to load/crashes PT or APG, whichever you try to load 2nd :(

It's been bugging me, yeah 1.4 did have that functionallity! I think i'd found it late just as it got removed :(

Didn't know about the quick export, cheers for the heads up! I'm setting that now...

But still not as slick as a one click button in APG.... I'll keep dreaming of that.....

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by mediavets » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:43 am

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:My licence for APG includes Panotour (not Pro) so i own the KRPano engine...

Errr....APG and PT/PTP licences are separately licenced products.

PT contains an embedded krpano licence but (in accordance with the agreement between Kolor and krpano) only PTP allows you to export the krpano licence so you can use krpano/krpanotools separately.

Back in the day - before PT/PTP were created as separate standalone products - APG included their 'ancestor' named Autopano Tour.

Which versions of APG and PT are you using and on which OS?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:47 am

mediavets wrote:...
PTP has a quick Export option - does PT have this too?
...

Yes it has it :)
but annoyingly, it prefixes the filename with 'tour_' instead of just changing the file extension, or suffixing it... This needs an option...

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:58 am

mediavets wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:My licence for APG includes Panotour (not Pro) so i own the KRPano engine...

Errr....APG and PT/PTP licences are separately licenced products.

PT contains an embedded krpano licence but (in accordance with the agreement between Kolor and krpano) only PTP allows you to export the krpano licence so you can use krpano/krpanotools separately.

Back in the day - before PT/PTP were created as separate standalone products - APG included their 'ancestor' named Autopano Tour.

Which versions of APG and PT are you using and on which OS?

I had Autopano Giga 2.0 on windows and then got the email offering the free upgrade to APG 2.5 with Panotour for free... Or Panotour Pro for €199 instead of €299...
So i see APG doesn't automatically come with PT nowadays... unless you get pack deal like what's on offer today...

But the quick build button in APG i'd like could be just for those of us that have the licence for PT/PTP... Another way to nudge people towards investing in PT/PTP ;)

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by Phil Howard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:11 am

So even if separately licensed, they need to at least know enough about each other to cascade the processing between them for those that have both.

At a previous job I worked, we had an application that had a few product components. But it presented as one single application that supported and worked with all the components that were installed. Many (but not all) components added their own panels and/or menu options. It was "seamless integration".

Think of it as the Kolor app framework with all the rest being licensed components that could be added simply by installing (files would go into subdirectories of the "Kolor" directory ... /opt/Kolor on Linux ... whatsever equivalent on Windows and Max OSX).

So this seems to me to be an "integration" idea for the future. And that could make it easier to make and sell even more product ideas that might come along by just building them as components for the main app framework. The "render farm" idea mentioned elsewhere would just be a management component for render engine components, possibly sold as a separate product.

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by mediavets » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:19 am

Phil Howard wrote:So even if separately licensed, they need to at least know enough about each other to cascade the processing between them for those that have both.

At a previous job I worked, we had an application that had a few product components. But it presented as one single application that supported and worked with all the components that were installed. Many (but not all) components added their own panels and/or menu options. It was "seamless integration".

Think of it as the Kolor app framework with all the rest being licensed components that could be added simply by installing (files would go into subdirectories of the "Kolor" directory ... /opt/Kolor on Linux ... whatsever equivalent on Windows and Max OSX).

So this seems to me to be an "integration" idea for the future. And that could make it easier to make and sell even more product ideas that might come along by just building them as components for the main app framework. The "render farm" idea mentioned elsewhere would just be a management component for render engine components, possibly sold as a separate product.

I do 'see' what you are getting at.

However since Panotour and Panotour Pro are now standalone products separately licenced - unlike Autopano Tour which was only available bundled with earlier versions of APG on a single licence - they also appeal to people who use non-Kolor panoarama stitching software so should not be dependent on either APP or APG being installed.

Of course that need not prevent closer integration between APP /APG and PT/PTP when they are installed on the same system.
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:36 am

APG could just have a grayed out button if a PT/PTP licence isn't installed.
But it'd be nice if APG came with just the code needed for the creation of the swf files, instead of the having to start the whole GPUed gui shebang of PT/PTP. ...again, something that could run at low priority if needed so as not to slow down the interactive ui of APG... ;)

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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:04 pm

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Lets stick what's needed of it in APG so that single pano can be made in one click of a mouse. saving masses of time.

Nothing. Two seperate worlds.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Software is all about making our life easier. Gluing functionality and tools together and making workflow a joy to use...

Software is made for letting us realise things. That doesn´t mean it has to be done by one click - or make us an easier life . . :cool:
Shooting panoramas and making them interactive tours means to deal with rather sophisticated mechanisms.
APG and PTP make it so very easy to get quick results that many people don´t realise how complex it is.

Getting a driver´s-license and buying a car doesn´t make you a good driver. You need to know that turning the steering-wheel and using the gears are two seperate things which have to be used combined and with cleverness and growing experiences to work well.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:These forums are here so that us users can feed back to the creators info on usage and needs.
You may not personally need some functionality that's being discussed, but there's a million ways to use any tool, we all have different needs.

Again - it´s two seperate things:
1) stitching shots for an equirectangular image - APG.
2) making an interactive pano from an equirectangular image - PanoTour/Pro
2a) making a tour from several equirectangular images - PanoTour/Pro.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:24 pm

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:APG could just have a grayed out button if a PT/PTP licence isn't installed.
But it'd be nice if APG came with just the code needed for the creation of the swf files, instead of the having to start the whole GPUed gui shebang of PT/PTP. ...again, something that could run at low priority if needed so as not to slow down the interactive ui of APG... ;)

Let´s see the basics:

1) you shoot a set of images using a pano-head.
2) you import the images into a stitcher.
3) the stitcher stitches the images together making an equirectangular image. Let´s say 10000x5000px.
4) now you want this image to be an interactive panorama.
4a) at which point do you want he panorama to start?
4b) which FOV should i have?
4c) how should i behave: Autorotation? Fullscreen? Zoom? Sound? Include a movie in a TV or so?

Because of no automatic in the world can read your mind you need to tell the app what you want it to do.

Thet´s what PTP does: it makes your equirectagular image - which you stitched before - an interactive pano which behaves the way YOU tell it.

A one-click-does-all mechanism never can know this.

Regarding all this i hope you see the things more realistic . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:29 pm

klausesser wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Lets stick what's needed of it in APG so that single pano can be made in one click of a mouse. saving masses of time.

Nothing. Two seperate worlds.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Software is all about making our life easier. Gluing functionality and tools together and making workflow a joy to use...

Software is made for letting us realise things. That doesn´t mean it has to be done by one click - or make us an easier life . . :cool:
Shooting panoramas and making them interactive tours means to deal with rather sophisticated mechanisms.
APG and PTP make it so very easy to get quick results that many people don´t realise how complex it is.

Getting a driver´s-license and buying a car doesn´t make you a good driver. You need to know that turning the steering-wheel and using the gears are two seperate things which have to be used combined and with cleverness and growing experiences to work well.

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:These forums are here so that us users can feed back to the creators info on usage and needs.
You may not personally need some functionality that's being discussed, but there's a million ways to use any tool, we all have different needs.

Again - it´s two seperate things:
1) stitching shots for an equirectangular image - APG.
2) making an interactive pano from an equirectangular image - PanoTour/Pro
2a) making a tour from several equirectangular images - PanoTour/Pro.

best, Klaus

?
I think you missed a few of my points.

Why do you want to have everything separate? Why don't you want to improve this software?

I just want to create a simple flash file from the pano, like Autopano used to be able to do back in the 1.4 days.

Creating a simple flash requires no interaction when you've chosen some defaults (even the factory defaults work just fine), so we don't need a whole separate piece of software to do it. Just a button.

Creating tours is a specialist function, which is why Kolor created PT/PTP, which has all the tools and the UI to do it right and do it easily. The right tool for the job.

If you don't personally have a use for creating single simple flash files, the don't worry about this. Again we all use this differently and have different needs.

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by CheeseAndJamSandwich » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:45 pm

klausesser wrote:
CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:APG could just have a grayed out button if a PT/PTP licence isn't installed.
But it'd be nice if APG came with just the code needed for the creation of the swf files, instead of the having to start the whole GPUed gui shebang of PT/PTP. ...again, something that could run at low priority if needed so as not to slow down the interactive ui of APG... ;)

Let´s see the basics:

1) you shoot a set of images using a pano-head.
2) you import the images into a stitcher.
3) the stitcher stitches the images together making an equirectangular image. Let´s say 10000x5000px.
4) now you want this image to be an interactive panorama.
4a) at which point do you want he panorama to start?
4b) which FOV should i have?
4c) how should i behave: Autorotation? Fullscreen? Zoom? Sound? Include a movie in a TV or so?

Because of no automatic in the world can read your mind you need to tell the app what you want it to do.

Thet´s what PTP does: it makes your equirectagular image - which you stitched before - an interactive pano which behaves the way YOU tell it.

A one-click-does-all mechanism never can know this.

Regarding all this i hope you see the things more realistic . . ;):cool:

best, Klaus

OK, i have to assume you have totally missed my point. Sorry.

Please re-read my initial post.
I just want a simple flash file from the pano i've just rendered... It would be nice to have some basic options like auto-rotate, etc, but just the factory defaults would please me...

If i want to have a movie playing on a TV, etc, then obviously i switch to the tool for that job, PTP!

All the flashes I've been creating lately have been done with default settings, just embedding and auto-rotate selected. So i have to go thru the same laborious process i've described previously to create a flash, which takes time, clicking, selecting, copying, pasting, etc. and is not fun... Which could (and used to be) included in APG.

Klaus,
Please be aware that we are talking about creating a simple flash file.

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:19 pm

CheeseAndJamSandwich wrote:Klaus,
Please be aware that we are talking about creating a simple flash file.

Hi!

I´m fully aware of that. And i understood what you said from the beginning.
Fact is: it´s not the purpose of a stitcher to make a Flash-file - it would only be possible in a very basic way and that does no help.
That´s why it is wise to seperate both tasks - let the stitcher do it´s job well and delegate it to an GUI like PTP to generate a Flash- or whatever interactive file from it.

You wouldn´t expect a macro-lens to do microscopic pictures would you - you´d better use your camera on a microscope. :cool:

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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