The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

[mediavets]

by mediavets » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:29 pm

I am considering buying the Nokia N810 as a "replacement controller", they are quite inexpensive now. But they are also no longer supported and batteries don't last forever.

Batteries are readily available.

Could one of you point me to the site for purchasing the BT module, I'd like to try it out.

http://www.kolor.com/buy/photo-hardware/accessories/recepteur-bluetooth.html (Kolor Web shop)

http://www.papymerlin.com/interface-%C3%A9lectronique/ (Direct from ClaudeVH)

[RobSherratt]

by RobSherratt » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:34 pm

Hi Phill,

Thanks a lot for the extra information you posted today. Your test data is especially welcome and I will of course replicate the scenario as soon as my AllView is delivered (some time in next 2 to 3 weeks I expect). From the test data you published, I have to say that I will also be extremely disappointed in the AllView controller software. It appears that not only is it NOT doing spherical geometry calculations to reduce the number of images towards the nadir and zenith (like I expected), but it is also implementing a very simple and sub-optimal matrix-like algorithm that it then gets WRONG! I am amazed about this (in an unpleasantly amazed sort of way).

I expect you've seen the support request that I wrote earlier today to Celestron. I prefer to await a response to that request before I finalize my conclusions. At the moment - based on your test results - I am feeling very, very disappointed in my purchasing decision. It's like buying the latest AF camera lens only to discover the AF does not work properly and you have to switch it to MF to get the images sharp.

And now, I fully understand why you are purchasing your own controller to overcome the AllView controller's software defects. In my case, the product will be returned if Celestron's response to me is unsatisfactory. I take the view which is case law in the USA, that a "controller product" shall implement control functions that are are testable, repeatable, and deterministic. If this is not the case, then the manufacturer is selling goods that are not fit for purpose in USA law. Thankfully I purchased my AllView from a USA supplier. I will give Celestron a chance to respond to my support request before I join you and others in condemning the product and seeking redress. I am also now going to write to the USA vendor (HandsOnOptics) about this in the expectation that they will wish to intervene on my behalf.

Best regards,
Rob

[RobSherratt]

by RobSherratt » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:53 pm

This is a copy of my email to HandsOnOptics:

FAO: Sherry Hand,
HandsOnOptics USA
21st October 2012

Hi Sherry,

Unfortunately, the AllView controller firmware contains some significant defects where the positioning of the head for panoramic photos is neither predictable, repeatable or testable. The resulting panoramic shots cannot be imported into customary stitching software packages such as PTGui Pro or AutoPano Giga due to the seemingly random nature in which shots are taken and mis-aligned. I would like a representative from HandsOnOptics to read and respond to the messages posted in this user forum:

http://www.kolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11240&p=3

In particular, please let me know whether HandsOnOptics will be able to supply a corrected AllView controller firmware product, which would be my preference. Also please indicate the timescale in which a fully functional replacement firmware (in which there are no positioning errors) will be made available. Also please supply evidence in the form of a positioning specification for panoramic photographs, that identifies the repeatable and testable azimuth and inclination angles and overlap percentages at which photographs will be shot, given a variety of test cases of parameter inputs to the controller..

Otherwise, please take this email message of notification that faulty goods have been supplied, and please arrange collection of the goods and a refund.

Best regards,
Robert Sherratt

Last edited by RobSherratt on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[phill.butte]

by phill.butte » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:16 pm

"Please could you provide me with exact details of the calculations performed by the AllView controller firmware version B18 ..."

I hope this works but what I found on the internet is:
Celestron is only a distributor, they get the product from SkyWatcher (Pacific Telescope Corp.) in Canada who does not accept any support contact.
Pacific Telescope Corp is a distributor for Ningbo Sunny Electronic Co. in Shanghai
I suspect Ningbo is a distributor for some other Chinese company

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[RobSherratt]

by RobSherratt » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:13 pm

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks Phill !

I have to say that the Instruction Manual is well written (by Celestron) and demonstrates a high level of involvement in the product and its development and support for the USA market. I do not think Celestron would have taken this product on in the very litigious USA marketplace, unless they have an ability to get the firmware fixed. However, their response to you in this matter has been appalling - and I'm hopeful that they will reconsider their position. Sherry Hand (HandsOnOptics) was extremely helpful to me in the arrangements of my purchase and shipping. HandsOnOptics are a major seller of Celestron products in the USA and I'm sure they will do everything they can to keep the pressure up and get the product fixed.

The Instruction Manual confirms "Made in China", probably under license from developers in SkyWatcher. The SyncSan AZ controller was originally designed for use with telescopes, and its capability was extended for use in the pano photography market this year. I suspect the firmware for the controller is developed and supported by SkyWatcher in Canada, but we will see ...

[RobSherratt]

by RobSherratt » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:31 am

I received initial responses from both Celestron and HandsOnOptics today, saying they are looking into this issue and will get back to me soon.

[phill.butte]

by phill.butte » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:53 pm

That's a good sign. I suspect that the priority for fixing the problem will be bumped higher if more users complain about it.

[RobSherratt]

by RobSherratt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:34 am

Also it will help if the developers of the major panoramic software packages will assist us - by confirming that the images taken by the SkyWatcher SynScan controller with version B18 firmware are unsuitable for making panoramas, due to the positioning errors. Claude kindly introduced me to Alexandre Jenny, the CEO of Kolor, and owner of this forum. I'm hopeful that Alexandre might be willing to intervene in this matter.

In the meantime my SkyWatcher SynScan controller with B18 firmware is useless, and Claude is supplying me with a Bluetooth adapter which I will fit directly to the AllView head, enabling me to use my laptop and PapyWizard as the controller. Claude tells me that it is not necessary to use the Skywatcher SynScan controller at all. You just unplug the SynScan controller from the AllView head and plug in the Bluetooth adapter instead.

[redteo]

by redteo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:36 am

hi friends
i didn't read all the messages here but as i know
sky-watcher use the same encoding language in all mounts to give back support to all pointing software
like ascom platform and the unified celetron driver.
the i saw thits hread i was speculing about use the firmware of the allview on old mount an i found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBJqsjqVWY
so i think that also papywizard can work like before.
the only different that i saw is othe dual encoding used to not louse the traking in manual adjustements

Last edited by redteo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

[claudevh]

by claudevh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:03 am

Hello "redteo"

Your conclusions are correct:

- Yes the Allview use "basically" the same communication protocol as the Skywatcher Multifunction head (alias "Merlin") and also basic Celestron mounts (affiliate of Skywatcher)

- Yes "without modification nor upgrading" the Allview can work without problems with Papywizard

- Yes the Synscan controler of a "GoTo" Merlin can be upgraded by the Hand controler firmware of the Allview
See the next post
http://www.kolor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9635&p=2

Nevertheless, this "manipulation" isn't supported by Skywatcher
AND "actually" you must be carefull by making this transformation
AND You must be aware that probably this transformation will void your garantie if any ...

[kaspeed]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by kaspeed » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:34 pm

Hi

I'm considering buying this mount, but from what I read in this topic it's not perfect. Can anyone confirm these issues with narrow lenses fov and gigapanos has been fixed?

--
Kasper

[phill.butte]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by phill.butte » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:53 pm

I can confirm that the hand controller limitation has not been fixed. However, even if it was I would still continue to use PapyWizard. It's so much easier to use and gives excellent control for lenses with a very small FOV. There's a bonus in that it gives you an xml file to help the stitching software align the photos, especially helpful in the sky area with small FOV lenses. I used PapayWizard, the AllView mount and a 300mm lens to do this Gigapan http://gigapan.com/gigapans/127665 and did very little manual controlpoint editing.

[kaspeed]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by kaspeed » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:13 pm

Thanks for answer phill. That's sad when you have to buy two things to get what's promised in one of them but that's living in corporate world price you pay.

[kaspeed]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by kaspeed » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:26 pm

Second question: will i get npp with canon 10-22 + 400d + battery grip?

[mediavets]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by mediavets » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:05 pm

Second question: will i get npp with canon 10-22 + 400d + battery grip?

Why would you need that battery grip? - best avoided always when shooting panos.

For that matter why do you need a robotic head when shooting at 10mm on cropped sensor Canon body?

[kaspeed]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by kaspeed » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:48 pm

battery grip - for power just in case. I don't know if i'll need it, but it's possible from what I see my current battery (2007) runs out quickly. 10mm is my biggest lens, i'll probably use 85mm, but i was thinking about taking 360x180 timelapse with it.

[phill.butte]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by phill.butte » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:08 am

The AllView will accommodate up to about 60mm from the centerline of the lens to the bottom of the camera or battery grip. Beyond that and the arm hits the bottom of the mount preventing it from pointing at the zenith. But I'm with mediavets, don't use the battery grip, buy a new battery.

[kaspeed]

Re: The "Big" Merlin ? =====>>>>> AllView Mount

by kaspeed » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:21 am

Or, I'll go with this: http://blog.stefanvds.com/2011/11/30/di ... c-adapter/ + 12v gel battery.