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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:31 pm 
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here in the forums there have been a buzz about this, and representatives from Kolor have expressed something like "flash is dead". in my opinion this a bit premature. and today I read a confirmation:

"The HTML Working Group" has issued a plan for html5, and in the summary it says
"Revise the draft HTML WG charter to indicate an HTML 5.0 Recommendation in 2014Q4 and an HTML 5.1 Recommendation in 2016Q4."

This is no misspelling, the plan says html 5.0 is planned to be released 2014Q4 !

For PTP-users this means that tours build as "html5-tours" may experience that it has to be rebuilt when the standard is finished. Tours built on preliminary html5 spesifications may work on one browser and not on others, as they interpret the html5 different before it is written i stone.
I have seen this many times over the years: hardware and software companies rushing to adopt a not-finished-standard. sometimes you have to throw away your hardware when the standard is established and your hardware can't be updated. for software, like PTP, the risk is that you will ave to rebuild a project.

see the plan for yourself at http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-2014-plan.html

My own conclusion: rush slow !

leifs

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:40 pm 
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leifs wrote:
here in the forums there have been a buzz about this, and representatives from Kolor have expressed something like "flash is dead". in my opinion this a bit premature. and today I read a confirmation:

"The HTML Working Group" has issued a plan for html5, and in the summary it says
"Revise the draft HTML WG charter to indicate an HTML 5.0 Recommendation in 2014Q4 and an HTML 5.1 Recommendation in 2016Q4."

This is no misspelling, the plan says html 5.0 is planned to be released 2014Q4 !

For PTP-users this means that tours build as "html5-tours" may experience that it has to be rebuilt when the standard is finished. Tours built on preliminary html5 spesifications may work on one browser and not on others, as they interpret the html5 different before it is written i stone.
I have seen this many times over the years: hardware and software companies rushing to adopt a not-finished-standard. sometimes you have to throw away your hardware when the standard is established and your hardware can't be updated. for software, like PTP, the risk is that you will ave to rebuild a project.

see the plan for yourself at http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-2014-plan.html

My own conclusion: rush slow !

leifs

However - watch a PTP tour on iPad or Android: it works on both platforms and also on desktops. But it definitely will take quite a time untill you can do all what you can do using Flash.

best, Klaus

P.S.: "My own conclusion: rush slow !" Yes - but clients want to have it. Now. And they´re right: iPads are common devices in the communication-business as well as in sales and advertising.

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Last edited by klausesser on Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:58 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
but clients want to have it. Now. And they´re right: iPads are common devices in the communication-business as well as in sales and advertising.

I have no clients.
It is my privilege to state: if you can't see my panos because you insist on using an Apple device I give a damn :)

leifs

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:36 pm 
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leifs wrote:
I have no clients.
It is my privilege to state: if you can't see my panos because you insist on using an Apple device I give a damn :)

It´s related to Androids as well :cool: You give a damn to them too? No problem.

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:08 am 
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here is the browser statistics for my site. Androids is 1.9% so I won't invest much time for them.
btw: my phone is a Samsung SII running android 4.04 and it shows my flash panos without any problems.

leifs



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:26 am 
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leifs wrote:
here is the browser statistics for my site. Androids is 1.9% so I won't invest much time for them.
btw: my phone is a Samsung SII running android 4.04 and it shows my flash panos without any problems.

leifs

lol. look at krpano site to the news. krpano 1.0.8.15 and here you can see:

http://krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=39882#post39882
http://krpano.com/docu/html5/#top

that html5 version is running on android 4 and higher, recent browsers and even on IE10 (whith will be on market within 2 months and will have 40%+ market shares within 6 months after all win7 users got automatically updated).

so why should a software devolper not came to the conclusion that flash is dead? (and no longer needed?)

panotour 2 will be based on that 1.0.8.15 version...

PS: after years using win7 now the only recurring bluescreens and system hangups does occure only when Adobe flash updates are ready to install. Finally I can even live without flash even on PC side. If a company is not willing to develop working software, why should a user stick to it?

Georg

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Last edited by gkaefer on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:17 pm 
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I prefer the Opera browser.
Here is what they say about the status for HTML5 and their implementation
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto25/html5/

The standard is not ready, until 2014 at least, Opera is not ready.
I see no need for rushing.

leifs

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Last edited by leifs on Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:22 pm 
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since 27.10.2009 the W3C did set the status of Html5 to "Final Call" with deadline May 2011. This means in this time there was the last Chance to make comments according the standardization. This also means that defact no more changes can be expected.

If we ever had waited to use the Internet tools until they got an official standardization stamp, the world would look like very different today.

source for first paragraph: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5

Georg

PS: I think the browser dev teams had 18 months time... enough time to implement the Release Candidate.

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Last edited by gkaefer on Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:15 pm 
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I see the need for tool-makers like krpano, Kolor, Opera to prepare for the change. I also see their trouble shooting at a moving target.
As a end-user I see no reason to join the race. In Windows 8 flash will do the tricks, so flash will be with us for quite some time.

leifs

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:59 am 
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I personally cannot see Flash going anywhere anytime soon.. There might be other things come along but Flash will be here for a long time to come. What they might do is tighten up on the security issues associated with Flash. There are a heaps of companies creating flash content, where their entire company relies on Flash, and many of the third party App's have export to swf. Most of the Adobe App's have Flash graphic links features too.. If Flash died off then so would Adobe Flash Builder and Flex and a heap of other high end Adobe App's and features and a million other third party Flash App's too. I cannot see it happening... Many of the games are built using FB and Flex, all of which use AS3. It might change names and a few protocols as we know it but Flash is here to stay for a long time to come.. HTLM5 has been around for many years in the form of XHTML which was really html4, but no one referred to it as that.. Its free for anyone to develop. Software like webGL is also free, created by a consortium developed by some very smart people. Flash is also supposed to be power and memory hungry but I cannot see that either.. Its mostly code and vector graphics so not sure why I read that kind of stuff.. With Flash uses Action Script 2 and 3, but HTML5 and WeGL relies on JavaScript.. Both have unique uses and huge value in creating high-end graphics.

Anyways.. Thats my personal opinion...

Destiny..

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:07 pm 
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leifs wrote:
I see the need for tool-makers like krpano, Kolor, Opera to prepare for the change. I also see their trouble shooting at a moving target.
As a end-user I see no reason to join the race. In Windows 8 flash will do the tricks, so flash will be with us for quite some time.

leifs

We´re in close contact with several media - press-agencies, advertising-agencies, online newspaper, apps for magazines like "Spiegel", "New York Times", "Stern" and so on. They all are going
HTML5 instead of betting on a dead horse.

And one of the first questions they ask: does it support HTML5? If you can´t provide it - you´re out. They see it strictly future-oriented.

It´s that simple :cool:

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:40 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
And one of the first questions they ask: does it support HTML5? If you can´t provide it - you´re out. They see it strictly future-oriented.
best, Klaus

ofcourse:
if you are about to make something you make it for the future.

leifs

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:32 am 
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emm.. For those clients who insist on html5, they will have to be advised that their options are very limited since its still very early days for this format. Also, none of the kolor software can be used until V2 I guess, or even if easypano where used, clients would need to be advised that there would be many restrictions.. and for those of us who would travel that road, they better buy a PC since Apple Macs have even more limitations with software options and as with Tour Weaver for Mac, its been over a year now since its says html5 is coming!.. But I guess clients can wait since html5 is the way forward... :rolleyes:

http://www.easypano.com/comparison/functions-tw7.html

http://www.easypano.com/virtual-tour-software-mac.html#

It also leaves many other leading software apps out of the running to use since they do not offer html5 output..

But I guess the clients of these major advertising and media companies know best.. :rolleyes:

Destiny..

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Last edited by Destiny on Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
emm.. For those clients who insist on html5, they will have to be advised that their options are very limited since its still very early days for this format. Also, none of the kolor software can be used until V2 I guess, or even if easypano where used, clients would need to be advised that there would be many restrictions..

Our clients are very well aware of what´s possible TODAY . . . 90% of them are media-professionals. But they have to think into the future. Big clients can´t easily switch technologies every six months - as a hotel nearby can or a shop around the corner and so on.

When they worked out a guideline they have a resaon to do so - and they stick to it.

At the present state of technology Flash is still the way to go - but it has to be acompanied by new mechanisms to get the content run on mobile devices. Of course it will take quite some time until HTML5 can do the same as Flash can today - everybody is aware of that.

Destiny wrote:
and for those of us who would travel that road, they better buy a PC since Apple Macs have even more limitations with software options and as with Tour Weaver for Mac, its been over a year now since its says html5 is coming!.. But I guess clients can wait since html5 is the way forward... :rolleyes:

Sorry, Destiny . . . but :lol::lol:

Have you ever been in a somewhat bigger advertising agency or a major media company? Or a somewhat bigger photo-studio in one of the capitals or big cities where´s heavy media-presence?
Have you ever been in contact with professional photographers, cameramen, image-editors? I guess are on 75% Macs.

Only in the 3D business PC-workstations definitely rule - for several reasons.

Besides of that: it´s of minor interest what people use as soft- and hardware - it depends on what they achive USING the hard- and software whether they have success . . . or not. That´s for EACH kind of hard- and software. It´s neither hardware nor software which leads to success - it´s creative skills as well as reliability. And these you can´t buy with devices or apps. Clients must be sure to get what they want when they book you.

Destiny wrote:
But I guess the clients of these major advertising and media companies know best.. :rolleyes:

To know what´s best isn´t up to the "clients of these major advertising and media companies" - its up the the agencies and media-companies. THEY are the professionals, THEY are the ones who book the people who produce the content and THEY pay and publish the content which producers like us produce.

The clients of these agencies or media companies rely on the skills and knowledge of the agencies to select the producers which match their demands best. Good agencies have good art-buyers - they know the best creatives to do the job.

best, Klaus

P.S.: Who is "EasyPano"?? :D:cool:

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Last edited by klausesser on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:39 pm 
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O no, Destiny and Klaus, not again, please

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:38 pm 
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HansKeesom wrote:
O no, Destiny and Klaus, not again, please

Don´t be afraid - wouldn´t happen ;):cool:

best, Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:29 pm 
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I simply said that html5 has limitations in software Klaus.. Flash has a firm foundation built over many years so I feel it will be here for some time to come. Hthm5, is the way forward for the future but at present is very limited in software choices… So therefore, I cannot see Flash dying off anytime soon since html5 is still developing Standards and software developers are still developing technologies which they are finding has many technical obstacles to overcome.

And yes... I have worked and been inside BIG media production company Klaus.. Cutting Edge is one of the biggest Post-Production media companies in the Southern Hemisphere, post editing the Batman and Superman movies while I was there doing my Internship; with offices in the UK and NY as I recall..

Destiny..

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Newbie here (typing on a MAC) and interfacing regularly with a group of 150 photographers shooting Google tours, and with a Girlfriend that is a Web designer. And I also interface with a large University where 90 of the administration is on PC's but 90% of the Academics and Researchers (the smart guys and gals) are on MAC's. Apple has flatly stated they will not support Flash, they have been working on making it go away since the introduction of the iPad two years ago. HTML5 may not be a mature technology, but with the emphasis on mobile computing and the fact that technology develops so fast, it will be a viable, platform very quickly. I can not use my iPad to properly show a Flash based tour. Apple leads and others follow. The followers potentially end up doing as well, or in some cases better in some areas, but they are still followers.
Conversely Google seems to be putting a large amount of time, energy and money into it's virtual tours, Street view and photography in general. They just bought NIK software for example. Their tours are Flash based. So perhaps it will end in the battle of the Titans, Apple and Google battling it out!

I was a little concerned to be investing in Panotour Pro with this battle raging.

Regards,
David


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Destiny wrote:
I simply said that html5 has limitations in software Klaus..

Sorry: no. You said: " they better buy a PC since Apple Macs have even more limitations with software options"

Klaus

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:01 am 
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dptrit wrote:
I was a little concerned to be investing in Panotour Pro with this battle raging.

Hi David!

No need to be concerned. :cool:

Klaus

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Hi Klaus,
I invested anyway. And am very pleased with the ease of building the tours with Panotour Pro. The software is great. I am back on the flash bandwagon for the time being. And the software shined, especially after I built a tour yesterday that I could use to show on my iPad. Then it wouldn't show on my my Andriod phone! But I am sure it was something I did incorrectly.

Now if I could just get the little planet to work....

David


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:42 pm 
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dptrit wrote:
Hi Klaus,
I invested anyway. And am very pleased with the ease of building the tours with Panotour Pro. The software is great. I am back on the flash bandwagon for the time being. And the software shined, especially after I built a tour yesterday that I could use to show on my iPad. Then it wouldn't show on my my Andriod phone! But I am sure it was something I did incorrectly.

Now if I could just get the little planet to work....

David

Hi David!

Afaik KRPano provides Android-compatibility as well (i didn´t test it) as iDevices-compatibility.

I saw our Flash-based panos running on Androids some time ago.

Little planets definitely wouldn´t run on iDevices. It´s Flash-based.

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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