APG 3+ back to basics.... HOW TO USE IT? 2  

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:56 am

HansKeesom wrote:Destiny and Klaus,

Get over it. Leave the other alone. If the other writes down BS, leave it to others to respond to that.

It feels like you actually are enjoying flaming one another, or trying to lecture the other.

Don't know your age but by now some reflection on your own behavior should happen!

Hans - i have better things to do than flame around here.

On the other side my great fault is wanting to clear facts. Clearing FACTS is not always appreciated as i ralise actually by having senseless discussions about
x Terabytes per week or sticking to use inappropriate hardware though it´s obvious it can´t do things which somebody wants it to do.

Answering in a contructive matter basing on facts sometimes obviously seem to be not what people would like to hear. And then they start to argue instead
of simply realizing the facts.

My conclusion: i´ll stop to communicate here.

Have nice summer.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Artisan New » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:37 pm

>My conclusion: i´ll stop to communicate here. This is on the best way to become a kindergarden.<

This centence is exactly what bothers people a lot Klaus. If they agree with you they are mature, if they don't agree you call them names. We are all grown people Klaus and disagreement is natural in any discussion....but hey, if you can't take the heat, don't stand in the kitchen as my anglosaxon buddies like to say.

You take a lot of things very personal (I know since I do to). You call about facts, while most of the time you are voicing well informed opinions at best (as we all are sometimes and hell 90% of our neoliberal economy is based on opinions, most of them half ased, so why not). As i've shown in my previous post (the one with the 3 pictures), what the facts are, complete with how I arrived at them. Now telling Kolor were they have problems is by no means detrimental to Kolor. I like to know where my problems lie, at best I find them in the quit space of my development department as a softwarehouse, but if a client informs me about them, I have to make a call fast. In germany they have a saying "Vertrauwen komt zu Fuss, und geht zu Pferd" (Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback). In the days of Internet you should rephrase that "and leaves at Warp speed" ((c) Gene Roddenberry).

We can al test the competitors product and if I have better results using a competitor I'm not rushing to upgrade either. Money is hard earned and in short supplie these days (since to many doh has migrated upstream to the 1%).....and I have to invest wisely, so it's 50 bucks for an upgrade agains 150 for a change to PTGui.....and I'm not decided yet.

Greet, Ed.
Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Motorized Panohead of Canadian (ironware)/Dutch (electronics and software) construction.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:45 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Destiny and Klaus,

Get over it. Leave the other alone. If the other writes down BS, leave it to others to respond to that.

It feels like you actually are enjoying flaming one another, or trying to lecture the other.

Don't know your age but by now some reflection on your own behavior should happen!

Hans - i have better things to do than flame around here.

On the other side my great fault is wanting to clear facts. Clearing FACTS is not always appreciated as i ralise actually by having senseless discussions about
x Terabytes per week or sticking to use inappropriate hardware though it´s obvious it can´t do things which somebody wants it to do.

Answering in a contructive matter basing on facts sometimes obviously seem to be not what people would like to hear. And then they start to argue instead
of simply realizing the facts.

My conclusion: i´ll stop to communicate here.

Have nice summer.

Klaus

Klaus,

Yes you have better things to do

No wanting to clear the fact is not a fault. Not knowing when to stop when the other is not accepting/understanding your explanation, problably is.

Have a nice summer.

Below you see a screenshot of Destiny's panorama on my 2 GB netbook. As you can see I got the green light for fusion! It took a long while though and of course one should run with more memory. But as proof how good APG is, it serves it purpose.


Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:49 pm

Artisan New wrote:>My conclusion: i´ll stop to communicate here. This is on the best way to become a kindergarden.<

This centence is exactly what bothers people a lot Klaus......

Greet, Ed.

I disagree here, the sentence of Klaus is an exact description of what is going on. Writing it down here on the forum might not very helpfull though as is my post sofar ;-)

The point is that Klaus, like others, is part of the kindergarden-fication of this forum. We all need to grow up and leave a lot of things at home/offline and not use this forum for it.
Last edited by HansKeesom on Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:54 pm

HansKeesom wrote:The point is that Klaus, like others, is part of the kindergarden-fication of this forum.

Right - that´s why i prefer to leave.

Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:58 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Below you see a screenshot of Destiny's panorama on my 2 GB netbook. As you can see I got the green light for fusion! It took a long while though and of course one should run with more memory. But as proof how good APG is, it serves it purpose.

Great . . so: where´s the problem? I mean having read something like "APG can´t handle fusion well" . . . or so . . because of a bug . . wrong?

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:13 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Below you see a screenshot of Destiny's panorama on my 2 GB netbook. As you can see I got the green light for fusion! It took a long while though and of course one should run with more memory. But as proof how good APG is, it serves it purpose.

Great . . so: where´s the problem? I mean having read something like "APG can´t handle fusion well" . . . or so . . because of a bug . . wrong?

Klaus

The problem is one of understanding and communication.

You already understood there was no problem, you were just unable to communicate this is such a way that Destiny would accept and understand it.

Klaus, you are a great source of knowledge but I do not see you teaching it in front of a classroom..... Does it help when I tell you I tried teaching and decided it wasn't for me after trying for six years....
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:55 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Klaus, you are a great source of knowledge but I do not see you teaching it in front of a classroom.....

Well: in fact i did gave lectures in an art-academy for quite a time . . . sucessfully, by the way. I never heard anybody complaining.

But they were open-minded students honestly willing to learn about photography in praxi . .

Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Artisan New » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:12 pm

Well, I told you about mr. De Jong a math teacher. If someone didn't understand what he was talking about his respons was just the same as Klaus's, repeat and loudmouth, then blame the recipient of the call. But that is not what this is about. This is mostly about being right. The fact Hans that you are able to run a 60 photo pano on a 2Mb machine does not mean that Des will not be able to run a 60 pano on het 2Mb machine.

That depends on lots of things. Cache settings (as you stated), but also programs loaded in memory (as Klaus stated). Computers are pesky machines. I used a harddisk audio system years back.....if I installed a virus checker on the same machine, end of pipe came early. To run to it's full potential the software needed a dedicated machine (or a less resource hungry virus checker).

Serveral people have found problems in the way Autopano Pro handles its exposure blending (including Klaus BTW), now Des brings up the subject and is attacked like Leica owners attack DxO for not giving the M240 the best sensor performance known to men. Fact is that even Klaus admits that Kolor could do with an upgraded documentation (as could KRPANO), more and better usage examples, more does and don't (especially those). I for one, and I'm not alone have no clue about what everything in does but I'm confronted with undocumented and unexpected behavior on a dayly basis.

Greets, Ed.
Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Motorized Panohead of Canadian (ironware)/Dutch (electronics and software) construction.

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by marzipano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:13 pm

Hi Artisan,

Just looking at your post on the previous page (but seem to be having problems quoting it)

I'm just wondering whether what you have here is the anti-ghosting issue related to APG Fusion (I'm not quite sure I understand your issue from the write-up and images in your post)

We have been talking a lot about APG's appetite for RAM in Exposure Fusion but there is another issue connected with anti-ghosting and alignment that is also absent in APG within a bracketed set

For outside shots with moving objects this is especially relevant (and made even more noticeable if the shots are hand-held)

You can see that even with HDR ghosting turned on, APG leaves a lot of ghosts of moving ducks in the fial fused image

PTGUI goes almost too far the other way and tries to remove everything that is not in the whole bracketed set but leaves a few fainter traces behind

Photomatix wins hands down and is clever enough (I don't know how) to leave a selection of ducks in the final fused image even though they were only in one member of the bracketed set (I think!) and they are properly exposed too

I have reported this on here before to Kolor and raised it as an issue - I have been told that it is on the "wish list" but may not get done

Martin



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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:26 pm

Artisan New wrote:Well, I told you about mr. De Jong a math teacher. If someone didn't understand what he was talking about his respons was just the same as Klaus's, repeat and loudmouth, then blame the recipient of the call. But that is not what this is about. This is mostly about being right. The fact Hans that you are able to run a 60 photo pano on a 2Mb machine does not mean that Des will not be able to run a 60 pano on het 2Mb machine.

That depends on lots of things. Cache settings (as you stated), but also programs loaded in memory (as Klaus stated). Computers are pesky machines. I used a harddisk audio system years back.....if I installed a virus checker on the same machine, end of pipe came early. To run to it's full potential the software needed a dedicated machine (or a less resource hungry virus checker).

Serveral people have found problems in the way Autopano Pro handles its exposure blending (including Klaus BTW), now Des brings up the subject and is attacked like Leica owners attack DxO for not giving the M240 the best sensor performance known to men. Fact is that even Klaus admits that Kolor could do with an upgraded documentation (as could KRPANO), more and better usage examples, more does and don't (especially those). I for one, and I'm not alone have no clue about what everything in does but I'm confronted with undocumented and unexpected behavior on a dayly basis.

Greets, Ed.

First let get the facts straigth. I was running a 2 GB machine not 2 MB. Destiny has a 4 GB machine, not 2 MB, nor 2 GB. So it is really, really likely that if she changes APG's memory settings she will be able to do fusion. Note that part of her problem is self-inflicted as she refuses to upgrade her 2009 Mac to 8 GB, a 90 dollar solution.......
So this takes care of the first half of your message.

I leave it to Klaus to respond, but I believe he stated APG didn't do a bad job but better results could be had when using external tools.

It is true APP and APG could do with some more documentation. Not that I think people will actually read it and not because they will stop complaining about it.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:28 pm

Artisan New wrote:I for one, and I'm not alone have no clue about what everything in does but I'm confronted with undocumented and unexpected behavior on a dayly basis.

Then why stick to it instead of going the many times suggested way of fusing/tonemapping (you can´t do tonemapping anyways in APG) BEFORE stitching?? Makes everything much easier, you know . .

Why would someone ignore the fact that APG simply needs more RAM for that pupose and endlessly complains instead about "bugs" . . . but keeps on trying it . . .

Do i NEED to understand that? No.

Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:29 pm

marzipano wrote:Hi Artisan,

Just looking at your post on the previous page (but seem to be having problems quoting it)

I'm just wondering whether what you have here is the anti-ghosting issue related to APG Fusion (I'm not quite sure I understand your issue from the write-up and images in your post)

We have been talking a lot about APG's appetite for RAM in Exposure Fusion but there is another issue connected with anti-ghosting and alignment that is also absent in APG within a bracketed set

For outside shots with moving objects this is especially relevant (and made even more noticeable if the shots are hand-held)

You can see that even with HDR ghosting turned on, APG leaves a lot of ghosts of moving ducks in the fial fused image

PTGUI goes almost too far the other way and tries to remove everything that is not in the whole bracketed set but leaves a few fainter traces behind

Photomatix wins hands down and is clever enough (I don't know how) to leave a selection of ducks in the final fused image even though they were only in one member of the bracketed set (I think!) and they are properly exposed too

I have reported this on here before to Kolor and raised it as an issue - I have been told that it is on the "wish list" but may not get done

Martin

Martin, with a few well placed markers APG problably takes care of the birds
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by marzipano » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:39 pm

HansKeesom wrote:
marzipano wrote:Hi Artisan,

Just looking at your post on the previous page (but seem to be having problems quoting it)

I'm just wondering whether what you have here is the anti-ghosting issue related to APG Fusion (I'm not quite sure I understand your issue from the write-up and images in your post)

We have been talking a lot about APG's appetite for RAM in Exposure Fusion but there is another issue connected with anti-ghosting and alignment that is also absent in APG within a bracketed set

For outside shots with moving objects this is especially relevant (and made even more noticeable if the shots are hand-held)

You can see that even with HDR ghosting turned on, APG leaves a lot of ghosts of moving ducks in the fial fused image

PTGUI goes almost too far the other way and tries to remove everything that is not in the whole bracketed set but leaves a few fainter traces behind

Photomatix wins hands down and is clever enough (I don't know how) to leave a selection of ducks in the final fused image even though they were only in one member of the bracketed set (I think!) and they are properly exposed too

I have reported this on here before to Kolor and raised it as an issue - I have been told that it is on the "wish list" but may not get done

Martin

Martin, with a few well placed markers APG problably takes care of the birds

I agree on that example I could have used a few red markers but it gets more problematic on smaller artifacts like leaves and twigs blowing in the breeze which Photomatix can also handle automatically

Martin

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:47 pm

HansKeesom wrote:
klausesser wrote:
Artisan New wrote:I for one, and I'm not alone have no clue about what everything in does but I'm confronted with undocumented and unexpected behavior on a dayly basis.

Then why stick to it instead of going the many times suggested way of fusing/tonemapping (you can´t do tonemapping anyways in APG) BEFORE stitching?? Makes everything much easier, you know . .

Why would someone ignore the fact that APG simply needs more RAM for that pupose and endlessly complains instead about "bugs" . . . but keeps on trying it . . .

Do i NEED to understand that? No.

Klaus

Klaus,

What do you think of generating layers and then using photoshop to HDR-them together. Is that a good way to go?

I used all that and i didn´t like the results. But try yourself! Many things can be done several ways. But i found out there always is only
ONE optmimal way related to what you need.

Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:49 pm

marzipano wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:
marzipano wrote:Hi Artisan,

Just looking at your post on the previous page (but seem to be having problems quoting it)

I'm just wondering whether what you have here is the anti-ghosting issue related to APG Fusion (I'm not quite sure I understand your issue from the write-up and images in your post)

We have been talking a lot about APG's appetite for RAM in Exposure Fusion but there is another issue connected with anti-ghosting and alignment that is also absent in APG within a bracketed set

For outside shots with moving objects this is especially relevant (and made even more noticeable if the shots are hand-held)

You can see that even with HDR ghosting turned on, APG leaves a lot of ghosts of moving ducks in the fial fused image

PTGUI goes almost too far the other way and tries to remove everything that is not in the whole bracketed set but leaves a few fainter traces behind

Photomatix wins hands down and is clever enough (I don't know how) to leave a selection of ducks in the final fused image even though they were only in one member of the bracketed set (I think!) and they are properly exposed too

I have reported this on here before to Kolor and raised it as an issue - I have been told that it is on the "wish list" but may not get done

Martin

Martin, with a few well placed markers APG problably takes care of the birds

I agree on that example I could have used a few red markers but it gets more problematic on smaller artifacts like leaves and twigs blowing in the breeze which Photomatix can also handle automatically

Martin

You are right about the leaves.
Recently I started processing panoramas coming from a sunny country and I can see some use of photomatix here. Actually, for the price of it I don't think i bother about doing fusion or HDR inside of APG. Just generate the layers and load them in photomatix seems the way to go right?
Last edited by HansKeesom on Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:03 pm

marzipano wrote:You can see that even with HDR ghosting turned on, APG leaves a lot of ghosts of moving ducks in the fial fused image

You can use the markers on individual layers or an all stacked layers. This way you should be able to remove a moving object in a certain layer without touching the others.

Klaus
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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:09 pm

HansKeesom wrote:Just generate the layers and load them in photomatix seems the way to go right?

The fastest way is to merge the brackets in Photomatix and to stitch the tonemapped images after that.
Photomatix Pro can run many batches in parallel. So you really save much time processing first and stitching later.

Btw.: anti-ghosting in Photomatix works very well and can be used manually quite precisely.

Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:09 pm

So what is the fastest way to get things done, placing markers in APG or deghosting in photomatix?

I am thinking about placeing markers in APG until the preview looks good at 40%, then generate the layers and have photomatic do the fusion and some extra deghosting? Would that be the fastest workflow?
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:16 pm

so actually what I was doing when I was still on a 4 GB computer. I used enfusegui instead but I guess photomatix is far superior
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by klausesser » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:22 pm

HansKeesom wrote:so actually what I was doing when I was still on a 4 GB computer. I used enfusegui instead but I guess photomatix is far superior

PhotomatixPro. Yes.

Klaus
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:40 pm

Feels like an improvement to my workflow that will take some time on it own (computer running on it's own), but will greatly reduce the time I will sit behind the computer checking the previews of panoramas, placing markers etc.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by Artisan New » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:01 pm

klausesser wrote:
Artisan New wrote:I for one, and I'm not alone have no clue about what everything in does but I'm confronted with undocumented and unexpected behavior on a dayly basis.

Then why stick to it instead of going the many times suggested way of fusing/tonemapping (you can´t do tonemapping anyways in APG) BEFORE stitching?? Makes everything much easier, you know . .

Why would someone ignore the fact that APG simply needs more RAM for that pupose and endlessly complains instead about "bugs" . . . but keeps on trying it . . .

Do i NEED to understand that? No.

Klaus

Sorry Klaus but that's exactly what I do. Haven't you read the post with the pictures from around 2 o clock? In fact I bought Photomatix because APP let me down in the HDR department. And it seems that did not solve the problem.......hence some frustration on my part.

I use Photomatix for what it's their for: creating HDR images, deghosted if needed (usually I photographe inanimate objects).......usually in batch, and that goes like stonk.
I use APP for what it is needed: creating stitched images and I have no problem doing that except.....one specific case.

When I use the SamYang 7.5 then Autopano Pro does not like the HDR files and I have no clue why. For ordinary photography I seldomly use HDR or exposure fusion since it would not fit my art. But I do use Autopano Pro and no problems there either, great program gets the jon done even with hand made multirow panorama's, shot with a 100mm and without a tripod.

But when it come to VR spheres using my 7.5 I'm running into al sorts of troubles. For instance:

1) Floor tyles do create stitch errors in the nadir......no problem with PTGui (the same problem observed by Destiny last year in her camper van adventure)
2) Ghosts of my Panosaurus 2.0 head, appear when using .HDR images (for Klaus created using Photomatix).....no problem with PTGui using the same photos.....and APP gets it wrong consistently.....repeatable like clockwork, allas.
3) Sometimes the engine crashes during manual entry of lens/camera data using .hrd files,.....haven't got a clue why.....probably me since sometimes the interface hangs and I don't like waiting.

Now I have a new motorised panorama head and will test it when the control software and control electronics are finished (somewhere in september). Then lets see what happens. If the HDR problems persist I will buy PTGui on top of APP. Just for one lens.....but if it saves me hours of frustration it's more then worth it.

At Hans,

Mb Gb sorry......typo......and indeed Des has a 4 Gb PC making things even stranger.......but you being able to render at 2 Gb is nice but it does not get her any further, since you and I have no clue whats going on inside her Mac. But in fact it makes the claim AGAINST upgrading stronger. If you can do it at 2 Gb and she can't at 4 there is no telling she will be able to do it at 8 Gb, allthough it can't hurt (except the wallet a little). I will upgrade from 8 to 16 Gb soon.

Greets, Ed.
Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Motorized Panohead of Canadian (ironware)/Dutch (electronics and software) construction.

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Artisan New
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by Artisan New » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:04 pm

klausesser wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:Just generate the layers and load them in photomatix seems the way to go right?

The fastest way is to merge the brackets in Photomatix and to stitch the tonemapped images after that.
Photomatix Pro can run many batches in parallel. So you really save much time processing first and stitching later.

Btw.: anti-ghosting in Photomatix works very well and can be used manually quite precisely.

Klaus

Agree........

Greets, Ed.
Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Motorized Panohead of Canadian (ironware)/Dutch (electronics and software) construction.

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HansKeesom
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by HansKeesom » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Artisan New wrote:..
At Hans,

Mb Gb sorry......typo......and indeed Des has a 4 Gb PC making things even stranger.......but you being able to render at 2 Gb is nice but it does not get her any further, since you and I have no clue whats going on inside her Mac. But in fact it makes the claim AGAINST upgrading stronger. If you can do it at 2 Gb and she can't at 4 there is no telling she will be able to do it at 8 Gb, allthough it can't hurt (except the wallet a little). I will upgrade from 8 to 16 Gb soon.

Greets, Ed.

I must admit I chrashed APG when trying to actually render. I considered it enough testing for that moment as the point was made.

When Destiny tested on my 16 GB machine the total usage did not go over 7 GB, with auto settings for cache division. That is proof enough for me. And at 90 dollar it ain't worth a long debate. As alternative she can use photomatix,, which is the same price just about
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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