APG 3+ back to basics.... HOW TO USE IT? 2  

Share your tips and tricks here or get help with any Panotour problem!
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HansKeesom
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by HansKeesom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:49 am

Destiny wrote:Thats just a text file...

Destiny..

The extension of the file is .pano.

I assume you save it as a text file. Don't, save it as .pano

The .PANO file format is basicly a text file with some special codes in it.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by Destiny » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54 am

It doesn't open a pano.. Its just a 1meg text file and auto opens it. Nothing I can change..

Destiny..

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by marzipano » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:24 am

Destiny wrote:It doesn't open a pano.. Its just a 1meg text file and auto opens it. Nothing I can change..

Destiny..

I think you have to move it to the directory containing the Nikon Raw (nef) images and then double click it (or open with apg) to open the pano for edit/render

Martin

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:47 am

marzipano wrote:
Destiny wrote:It doesn't open a pano.. Its just a 1meg text file and auto opens it. Nothing I can change..

Destiny..

I think you have to move it to the directory containing the Nikon Raw (nef) images and then double click it (or open with apg) to open the pano for edit/render

Martin

Yes that for sure but APG should show a windows asking for any missing files so that would be evident.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by Destiny » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:28 pm

Ok.. I worked it out.. I removed the .txt at the end file name and it was fine. It opened.

Not sure what you have done or think you have done but its horrible.. Sorry.. Not even close to a fused pano.. and it will not render; and with this warning you haven't set it to fusion but rather anti ghost, which is the wrong settings for fusion..

Nothing opened in the left main panel so I do not know what setting you set..

Destiny..



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by HansKeesom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:13 pm

Destiny wrote:Ok.. I worked it out.. I removed the .txt at the end file name and it was fine. It opened.

Not sure what you have done or think you have done but its horrible.. Sorry.. Not even close to a fused pano.. and it will not render; and with this warning you haven't set it to fusion but rather anti ghost, which is the wrong settings for fusion..

Nothing opened in the left main panel so I do not know what setting you set..

Destiny..

You asked for the .PANO so that what you received. The photoshop-file is looking much better then what is on your screen.

No surpise it will not render, did you see my screenshot showing 61 GB of RAM was being used rendering your file?

I advise you to render it without antighost etc and check that the stitching itselve is perfect (no broken line)

Dropbox upload went wrong somehow, hope to send you link to you in about an hour

file is huge and a bit orange but you should be able to correct that.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:01 pm

HansKeesom wrote:
Destiny wrote:Ok.. I worked it out.. I removed the .txt at the end file name and it was fine. It opened.

Not sure what you have done or think you have done but its horrible.. Sorry.. Not even close to a fused pano.. and it will not render; and with this warning you haven't set it to fusion but rather anti ghost, which is the wrong settings for fusion..

Nothing opened in the left main panel so I do not know what setting you set..

Destiny..

You asked for the .PANO so that what you received. The photoshop-file is looking much better then what is on your screen.

No surpise it will not render, did you see my screenshot showing 61 GB of RAM was being used rendering your file?

I advise you to render it without antighost etc and check that the stitching itselve is perfect (no broken line)

Dropbox upload went wrong somehow, hope to send you link to you in about an hour

file is huge and a bit orange but you should be able to correct that.

Destiny, make the changes to the settings of the .PANO you want and send it back to me so I can render it again.

Alternatively I can grant you access to my 64 GB mac using teamviewer so you can change the settings directly on the project while have all options and all memory you might need.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:06 am

Hans.. I really appreciated your efforts but its not what I was really hoping for.. I cannot see any stitching and there is no fusion at all in this.. The psd file took quite a while to download..

Destiny...



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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:38 am

I did try to render without antighost.. This is what happened...

Destiny..

HansKeesom wrote:
Destiny wrote:Ok.. I worked it out.. I removed the .txt at the end file name and it was fine. It opened.

Not sure what you have done or think you have done but its horrible.. Sorry.. Not even close to a fused pano.. and it will not render; and with this warning you haven't set it to fusion but rather anti ghost, which is the wrong settings for fusion..

Nothing opened in the left main panel so I do not know what setting you set..

Destiny..

You asked for the .PANO so that what you received. The photoshop-file is looking much better then what is on your screen.

No surpise it will not render, did you see my screenshot showing 61 GB of RAM was being used rendering your file?

I advise you to render it without antighost etc and check that the stitching itselve is perfect (no broken line)

Dropbox upload went wrong somehow, hope to send you link to you in about an hour

file is huge and a bit orange but you should be able to correct that.



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by HansKeesom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:08 am

Destiny wrote:I did try to render without antighost.. This is what happened...

Destiny..

HansKeesom wrote:
Destiny wrote:Ok.. I worked it out.. I removed the .txt at the end file name and it was fine. It opened.

Not sure what you have done or think you have done but its horrible.. Sorry.. Not even close to a fused pano.. and it will not render; and with this warning you haven't set it to fusion but rather anti ghost, which is the wrong settings for fusion..

Nothing opened in the left main panel so I do not know what setting you set..

Destiny..

You asked for the .PANO so that what you received. The photoshop-file is looking much better then what is on your screen.

No surpise it will not render, did you see my screenshot showing 61 GB of RAM was being used rendering your file?

I advise you to render it without antighost etc and check that the stitching itselve is perfect (no broken line)

Dropbox upload went wrong somehow, hope to send you link to you in about an hour

file is huge and a bit orange but you should be able to correct that.


You advise me...? ;-) Don't you mean that the problem is that you are not using antighost etc......???? That the problem is that you don't have enough RAM to render 60 NEF's?

I give up on it Destiny. I leave it to others to solve your "problems." I have better things to do. Sigh....

If you send me a .PANO like you want me to render it, I will render it and send you a link to the psd
Last edited by HansKeesom on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:37 am

I am not using antighost. That is the issue APG will not change your file to Fusion even after I set it to Fusing as you can see... I set it to Fusion but it errors suggesting its set to antighost.. Your attitude is confusing.. You wanted me to send you the pano.. I did not ask you to do it.. All I have done is post up the results that you sent me without any changes.. None of which are fusion. Not even close. I cannot even see the stitchings they are so dark.... One has pink lights and other is so dark with blowout on the lights..

Not to worry.. I will work it out.... It was supposed to look like this.. http://www.kolor.com/forum/p119260-2013-07-23-20-46-42#p119260

I sent you the same RAW images as I used in this pano.. APG cannot do this which is the point I am making.. Not even close but you suggested that you could..

Destiny...

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:49 am

Destiny wrote:Hans.. I really appreciated your efforts but its not what I was really hoping for.. I cannot see any stitching and there is no fusion at all in this.. The psd file took quite a while to download..

Destiny...

Is this the PSD you downloaded from me? At my computer it looks much brigther. Orange, but that is correctable


Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:15 pm

Destiny wrote:I am not using antighost. That is the issue APG will not change your file to Fusion even after I set it to Fusing as you can see... I set it to Fusion but it errors suggesting its set to antighost.. Your attitude is confusing.. You wanted me to send you the pano.. I did not ask you to do it.. All I have done is post up the results that you sent me without any changes.. None of which are fusion. Not even close. I cannot even see the stitchings they are so dark.... One has pink lights and other is so dark with blowout on the lights..

Not to worry.. I will work it out.... It was supposed to look like this.. http://www.kolor.com/forum/p119260-2013-07-23-20-46-42#p119260

I sent you the same RAW images as I used in this pano.. APG cannot do this which is the point I am making.. Not even close but you suggested that you could..

Destiny...

I did do it, you just don't want to see it. That is a problem I can not solve for you.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:18 pm

No it doesn't.. As I have already posted up, it looks like this in Photoshop CS6
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p119364-today-20-06-21#p119364

But even it it did look like your orange pano. In all honestly, are you happy with that.. With all your RAM and CPU power, this is your best effort.. I think you ned to agree that even with all your PC resources, there is something fundamentally wrong with APG fusion process..

I personally am going to move on from it.. I have tried very hard to make it work but even if I spent hours and had the hardware to achieve the results I was looking for, as in the pano results using Photomatix and PTGui, I still would not use it since I could never repeat the results without putting in a lot of time and effort even if had the computer hardware like yours to deal with processing my images..

I will work on getting my stitching right over the weekend.. I will continue to use Photomatix and try to get ABG to stitch it as best I can.. I can only assume, after Martin suggested, I should be able to active a low RMS with my gear, so I can only assume my NP is still not right... This is not the first time I have spend hours trying to work out the fusion/hdr process with APG..

Like I said; Thank you for your efforts but it was not the results I was looking for..

Destiny..

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:36 pm

Destiny wrote:No it doesn't.. As I have already posted up, it looks like this in Photoshop CS6
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p119364-today-20-06-21#p119364

But even it it did look like your orange pano. In all honestly, are you happy with that.. With all your RAM and CPU power, this is your best effort.. I think you ned to agree that even with all your PC resources, there is something fundamentally wrong with APG fusion process..

I personally am going to move on from it.. I have tried very hard to make it work but even if I spent hours and had the hardware to achieve the results I was looking for, as in the pano results using Photomatix and PTGui, I still would not use it since I could never repeat the results without putting in a lot of time and effort even if had the computer hardware like yours to deal with processing my images..

I will work on getting my stitching right over the weekend.. I will continue to use Photomatix and try to get ABG to stitch it as best I can.. I can only assume, after Martin suggested, I should be able to active a low RMS with my gear, so I can only assume my NP is still not right... This is not the first time I have spend hours trying to work out the fusion/hdr process with APG..

Like I said; Thank you for your efforts but it was not the results I was looking for..

Destiny..

No it was NOT my best effort, it was my first effort straigth out of the box. Rendered on my old 16 GB machine without a problem.
Did not need to change anything in APG. This shows how well APG works as long as you give it the RAM it needs to do it work.

The orange I did not correct because I assume you have your own taste regarding this.

I did do a auto color correction in APG later, after making the version you received, and that was indeed much less orange. Did not send it to you because you might have your own taste in this. I assumed you know how to correct colors in Photoshop.
Regards, Hans Keesom
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by klausesser » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:37 pm

Destiny wrote:there is something fundamentally wrong with APG fusion process..

I disagree. I don´t think it´s the "APG fusion process" that´s "fundamentally wrong" - sorry.

Because i´m a very curious guy two hours ago i tested a set of 72 shots (3 x 24) on a MacBook Pro . . . and fusioning worked ok.

Nevertheless i prefer not to use it for production - just wanted to know what´s about all this, good gracious . . .

Klaus
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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:39 pm

What on earth are you talking about.. I have stated that I cannot get APG to change your file from Antighost to Fusion . IT WILL NOT CHANGE.. Therefore it will not let me render it..

What do you mean. "I don't to see it.." See what..?? I have only posted up what you sent me.. What don't I want to see...??

"I did do it, you just don't want to see it. That is a problem I can not solve for you."

The reason why you cannot solve this issue is due to the APG fusion process. You suggested with all your PC power that you could solve the issue but you became over confident..

I have just loaded the same RAW files into APG.. As stacks.. I set it to index the 3rd images.. Now I have PINK lights.. I tell you now.. there is a lot more to all this than I can explain.. If I export as TIFs I do not get this..

The only real difference between what you achieved and I achieved, YOU achieved it a lot quicker due to your hardware. But the results are the same. TERRIBLE.. HORRIBLE.. And even loading RAW as you did, I am testing it now, I still cannot get the sliders to work.. Nothing happens.. But with all your hardware resources you should have been able to.. If not, then its a big bug in APG.. and I really do think this is the case.. I have just tried to render my file, same as your file, I get the same error.. It cannot render antighost yet I have not set it to anitghost, its set to fusion.. It a bug..

Destiny..



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by klausesser » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:24 pm

Destiny wrote:What on earth are you talking about.. I have stated that I cannot get APG to change your file from Antighost to Fusion . IT WILL NOT CHANGE.. Therefore it will not let me render it..

What do you mean. "I don't to see it.." See what..?? I have only posted up what you sent me.. What don't I want to see...??

"I did do it, you just don't want to see it. That is a problem I can not solve for you."

The reason why you cannot solve this issue is due to the APG fusion process. You suggested with all your PC power that you could solve the issue but you became over confident..

I have just loaded the same RAW files into APG.. As stacks.. I set it to index the 3rd images.. Now I have PINK lights.. I tell you now.. there is a lot more to all this than I can explain.. If I export as TIFs I do not get this..

The only real difference between what you achieved and I achieved, YOU achieved it a lot quicker due to your hardware. But the results are the same. TERRIBLE.. HORRIBLE.. And even loading RAW as you did, I am testing it now, I still cannot get the sliders to work.. Nothing happens.. But with all your hardware resources you should have been able to.. If not, then its a big bug in APG.. and I really do think this is the case.. I have just tried to render my file, same as your file, I get the same error.. It cannot render antighost yet I have not set it to anitghost, its set to fusion.. It a bug..

Destiny..

Destiny - let´s talk straight:

"Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer"
That´s what you claim to be.

But you´re not even able to recognize and accept very simple facts - instead you´re making funny statements and complain about "bugs" over and over again.

Everything that doesn´t work for you MUST be a "bug" and definitely an error is not on your side.

I tried again and again to help you, telling tips and tricks, give advises and so on. Your reaction then was rather self-opinionated.

What´s going on with Hans starts to go the same way. It´s a pain in the *** to read this to be honest.

I wish you luck for whatever you´re gonna do.

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:42 pm

klausesser wrote:Destiny - let´s talk straight:

"Virtual Tours and 3D/360 Object/Product Photographer"
That´s what you claim to be.

But you´re not even able to recognize and accept very simple facts - instead you´re making funny statements and complain about "bugs" over and over again.

Everything that doesn´t work for you MUST be a "bug" and definitely an error is not on your side.

I tried again and again to help you, telling tips and tricks, give advises and so on. Your reaction then was rather self-opinionated.

What´s going on with Hans starts to go the same way. It´s a pain in the *** to read this to be honest.

I wish you luck for whatever you´re gonna do.

Klaus

Cool off guys... play nice now...

Destiny is unable to get acceptable exposure fusion results with APG on her Mac setup, soem aspects of the process just don't work at all on her system, perhaps because it has too little RAM.

Klaus, you say it works for you on a much more powerful Mac system, BUT you wouldn't use for productuion work, so presumably you are not entriely happy with it either.

Others have said they're not able to get consistent satisfactory results on other platfroms.

APG users doing a lot of exosure fusion processing seem to have resorted to using Photomatix to pre-proccess their image sets prior to stitching with APG.

However it is also reported that APG does not stitch Photomatix processed images as reliably as PTGui does, perhaps becasue of APG's CP detection algorithmn.

..............

Now whether or not you call that a bug I think it suggests that exposure fusion in APG 3.x is currently of not much use to anyone and this has been the case for a long time now.

The take home message - as I see it - is that Kolor should either fix it, or forget it and remove it.
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Destiny » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:54 pm

This a long video live as it happens for me.. if you do not want to watch paint dry, skip to the last two minutes..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/APGexposureweights/raw.html

You will see my issue.. I am sure I am doing all processes correctly..

Destiny..

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by mediavets » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:05 pm

May I remind contributors to this thread of one of the forum rules:

4. No post that attack, insult, flame, defame or abuse other members is allowed.

Thank you...
Andrew Stephens
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by klausesser » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:24 pm

mediavets wrote:May I remind contributors to this thread of one of the forum rules:

4. No post that attack, insult, flame, defame or abuse other members is allowed.

Thank you...

I didn´t attack, insult, fame or deflame anybody. Seeing what i said this way means living a somewhat funny culture of arguing.

What about harming a software´s reputation by naming bugs that don´t exist? Of course things could be handeled differently - but a "bug"?
"Bug" is clearly defined term: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug

Several users told several times that 4GB RAM is too few for processing 80 or so images with fusioning in APG. This is a simple fact. Not a "bug".
The logical reaction would be to skip using the feature with weak hardware and use a workaround - like fusioning BEFORE stitching. As suggested MANY times
by several users.
Instead Destiny keeps doing what we all know can´t work - and complains about "bugs" in the software.

If i were Kolor - i would not be amused about that at all . . .

thank you . . :cool:

Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by marzipano » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Destiny wrote:This a long video live as it happens for me.. if you do not want to watch paint dry, skip to the last two minutes..

http://www.destinyvirtualtours.com/APGexposureweights/raw.html

You will see my issue.. I am sure I am doiang all processes correctly..

Destiny..

I just checked on your vid (required install of Apple Quicktime) and I now think I know exactly what the problem is !

I'm not going to call it a bug or else I will have Klaus on to me again but it is an undocumented feature

Look at your last 2 minutes where you call up the Fusion screen - it's the same issue as with the 60 tif files from an earlier post I made

the border round the screen has gone red and not green - that means EF hasn't worked properly which is probably why you are getting rubbish results from Hans' pano file

APG should stop at this point with a proper error panel as the next hour of renedering is going to be a waste of time as no fusion has been done

It is a memory limit problem I would imagine and I can replicate it on my PC which also "only" has 4GB (not the 61GB needed apparently :( )

best
Martin

** edit** I have a screen shot from Destiny's video showing where this green border should appear in the fusion process


Last edited by marzipano on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by HansKeesom » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:44 pm

Destiny wrote:What on earth are you talking about.. I have stated that I cannot get APG to change your file from Antighost to Fusion . IT WILL NOT CHANGE.. Therefore it will not let me render it..

What do you mean. "I don't to see it.." See what..?? I have only posted up what you sent me.. What don't I want to see...??

"I did do it, you just don't want to see it. That is a problem I can not solve for you."

The reason why you cannot solve this issue is due to the APG fusion process. You suggested with all your PC power that you could solve the issue but you became over confident..

I have just loaded the same RAW files into APG.. As stacks.. I set it to index the 3rd images.. Now I have PINK lights.. I tell you now.. there is a lot more to all this than I can explain.. If I export as TIFs I do not get this..

The only real difference between what you achieved and I achieved, YOU achieved it a lot quicker due to your hardware. But the results are the same. TERRIBLE.. HORRIBLE.. And even loading RAW as you did, I am testing it now, I still cannot get the sliders to work.. Nothing happens.. But with all your hardware resources you should have been able to.. If not, then its a big bug in APG.. and I really do think this is the case.. I have just tried to render my file, same as your file, I get the same error.. It cannot render antighost yet I have not set it to anitghost, its set to fusion.. It a bug..

Destiny..

Let me finish this by repeating the offer I made you to logon to my computer and find out for yourself. I can make an account on my 16 GB windows machine so you can use RDP to see for yourself or even on my 64 GB mac if you prefer that. This allows you to see what happens when you have enough RAM. Untill then I am done here.
Last edited by HansKeesom on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Hans Keesom
I stitch and render for other photographers. Price: 25 euro or less, no cure no pay. If you want to concentrate on your business let me do the stitching for you. Free TB of Dropbox space when you have more then 250 euro business a year.

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by Artisan New » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:45 pm

Klaus,

Do yourself a favour and don't go into a discussion about software bugs with me :)......I was a testengineer, testcoà¶rdinator and testmanager until discussions about bugs got me so frustrated that I quit. What consists of as a bug is far from striaghtforward but if some users don't understand how to use your interface, that is considered a major problem at least. Every last testing stage is the UAT (User Acceptance Test). In which users are confronted with the software (using all the information the normal user would have at their disposal). If a user can operate the software in a way that seems logical but will produce undesired results, any software company has a problem. No software is idiot proof but they all should thrive to be, since we are at some point all idiots and novices.

Greets, Ed.
Olympus OM-D with HLD-6, Fuji GX680, Samyang 7.5, Olympus 9-18, Sigma 19, Panasonic 14-45, Nikon 50 1.4 on Novoflex with tripod mount, Nikon 80-200, Panasonic 45-200, Fujinon 135, Fujinon 80, Fujinon 65, Fujinon 50, Gitzo Gilux Reporter 2, Sirui Ballhead and Panosaurus 2.0 NNP adapter, Motorized Panohead of Canadian (ironware)/Dutch (electronics and software) construction.

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