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V 2.0 Pricing

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:31 pm
by mosleyhgp
I'm curious about what everyone thinks of the upgrade pricing of PTP version 2.0.

I paid €199 for PTP 1.8 just a few months ago since I already owned KRPano. I have to admit that paying €199 again to upgrade to 2.0 seems a bit expensive to me. I understand that Kolor is a for-profit business, but the upgrade pricing seems high as a percentage of the retail price. I think that the current user base should be at least partially shielded from the price increase. A third of the new retail price (in keeping with Kolor's upgrade pricing policy) would probably be fair.

Opinions?

Code: Select all
Panotour / Panotour Pro 2.0 pricing
The new version is a huge step forward in the field of virtual tour creation. The price of the Pro version will slightly increase, whereas the price of the standard version will remain stable.

Panotour 2.0: €99
Panotour Pro 2.0: €399
Kolor also presented Livepano, which will enable to embed video frames on the place of a photo in the virtual tour. This option will be sold €199.

 

Upgrade policy
Kolor is used to offer the next version from the time a first beta of the application is released. The first beta of Panotour / Panotour Pro 2.0 is expected for August, however we decided to offer the new version on all purchases made from July 1, 2013.

Therefore, Panotour Pro price will be €399 from July 1 and it will include Panotour Pro 2.0.

All clients that made a purchase earlier than July 1 will be offered a special upgrade price as follows:

From Panotour 1.x to Panotour 2.0: €39
From Panotour Pro 1.x to Panotour Pro 2.0: €199, which is a third of the old price (our standard upgrade price) + the price difference between version 1 and version 2.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:15 pm
by mediavets
mosleyhgp wrote:I'm curious about what everyone thinks of the upgrade pricing of PTP version 2.0.

From the standpoint of a hobbyist...

I think the retail price of PTP 2.x is too high.

I think the upgrade price of PTP 1.8 to PTP 2.x is too high.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:33 pm
by HansKeesom
mediavets wrote:
mosleyhgp wrote:I'm curious about what everyone thinks of the upgrade pricing of PTP version 2.0.

From the standpoint of a hobbyist...

I think the retail price of PTP 2.x is too high.

I think the upgrade price of PTP 1.8 to PTP 2.x is too high.

I think PTP is not for a hobyist, PT is ;-)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:08 pm
by mediavets
HansKeesom wrote:
mediavets wrote:
mosleyhgp wrote:I'm curious about what everyone thinks of the upgrade pricing of PTP version 2.0.

From the standpoint of a hobbyist...

I think the retail price of PTP 2.x is too high.

I think the upgrade price of PTP 1.8 to PTP 2.x is too high.

I think PTP is not for a hobyist, PT is ;-)

Why should PTP not be for a hobbyist?

If PT 2.x is as 'crippled' as PT 1.8 it will be of little use to anyone.

I feel that there's now likely to be too big a gap in terms of price and features between PT and PTP - although as yet there has been no announcement as the the different feature sets of POT 2.x and PTP 2.x as far as I know.

It would be nice if one could purchase additional sets of features to add to a basic PT 2.x as required. I think many users will wish to have some but not all the features offered by PTP 2.x.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:15 pm
by sasha_che
Im not sure if you guys had the opportunity to watch the live presentation of ptp 2.0, but after watching it i can tell you hobbyist or not - the amount of work and innovation these guys put into the software woth every penny - again its my personal opinion

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:19 pm
by mediavets
sasha_che wrote:Im not sure if you guys had the opportunity to watch the live presentation of ptp 2.0, but after watching it i can tell you hobbyist or not - the amount of work and innovation these guys put into the software with every penny - again its my personal opinion

You may be correct from one standpoint; but you will not always succeed in the open market with a simple 'cost plus' pricing strategy.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:30 pm
by gkaefer
ptp 2.0 is not a fix for ptp 1.8.
it a complete new dev. a dozen of People are working since more than 1.5 year programming for that.
if you can spend 3000€ for a camera Body, 400€ for a tripod, 300€ for a backback, 700€ for a multiple from this for a Fitting PC and 1500€ for a lens for you cam than you also have not to complain about 400€ for a Software or 200€ for an upgrade.

and dont Forget: I for example bought ptp 1.x in 09/2009 and got every update since than for free! now I buy upgrade for ptp 2.0 and will get the next years updates again until we begin to complain about missing Features and kolor decides to plan release 3.x...

Georg

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:38 pm
by mediavets
gkaefer wrote:if you can spend 3000€ for a camera Body, 400€ for a tripod, 300€ for a backback, 700€ for a multiple from this for a Fitting PC and 1500€ for a lens

There's no way - as a hobbyist - that I could or would spend that much.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:44 pm
by mediavets
gkaefer wrote:ptp 2.0 is not a fix for ptp 1.8.
it a complete new dev. a dozen of People are working since more than 1.5 year programming for that.

I understand that, but I'm not buying man-years of programming effort but the results of that effort. Those results in terms of features and performance which will determine the perceived value in the market place.

The potential software purchaser doesn't care (nor can he realistically judge) how long it took, or how much it cost, to create the product.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:55 pm
by HansKeesom
mediavets wrote:
HansKeesom wrote:
mediavets wrote:From the standpoint of a hobbyist...

I think the retail price of PTP 2.x is too high.

I think the upgrade price of PTP 1.8 to PTP 2.x is too high.

I think PTP is not for a hobyist, PT is ;-)

Why should PTP not be for a hobbyist?

If PT 2.x is as 'crippled' as PT 1.8 it will be of little use to anyone.

I feel that there's now likely to be too big a gap in terms of price and features between PT and PTP - although as yet there has been no announcement as the the different feature sets of POT 2.x and PTP 2.x as far as I know.

It would be nice if one could purchase additional sets of features to add to a basic PT 2.x as required. I think many users will wish to have some but not all the features offered by PTP 2.x.

Everyone is free to spend as much as he/she wants for their hobby of course. And somehow I see it possible that not al options of the PTP will be needed for most of the tours I will deliver.

But I made that yoke, with in my mind the serious thought that if you make money with the extra options of PTP you don't have to think long. If it is a hobby it all depends on how much you want to spend on your hobby and there is no general answer to it.

And certainly as long as we don't know the options.....

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:15 pm
by Virtuel Rundtur
From my point of view i was actually hoping that the price for PTP 2.0 was much much higher. I do believe that the Pro in PanoTour Pro means it is for professionals.

Not because i swim in money or anything like this, but here in Denmark, there seems to be a lot of these hobbieist, trying to earn some easy money on virtual tours. The result is really bad looking virtual tours, with a poor picture quality and terrible designs. If customers generelly believe that this is the quality of virtual tours, built in PTP, our business is destroyed for those of us who try to do it properly using PTP.

Only God know how many times I have told, that the quality of my virtual tours is not like Google Street View at all. :-)

Btw. if you want cheap software, it is easy to apply as a Google Trusted Photographer. I think they let you use Picasa for free :-)

Cheers

Henrik

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:23 pm
by pan360
I don't understand why a hobbyist need the PTP 2.0. Is the PT not enough? This is like you want to by a race car, but you want to pay just € 10 000 and not the price of the car € 100 000, just because you are not a race driver and want to drive for fun? Try to buy Nikon D4 for € 1000 with the words "I am just hobbyist, so i should pay just a part of the Price"

This Program is huuuuuge. There are so many options. This everything are sooo many working hours, that i am happy is not more expensive.

I understand that € 400 is pretty much for a hobbyist, but you can have the PT for just € 100.


--
please excuse my terrible English!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:45 pm
by mediavets
pan360 wrote:I don't understand why a hobbyist need the PTP 2.0. Is the PT not enough?

That's rather like saying - why does a hobbyist need a DSLR - is a point-n-shoot not enough.

This Program is huuuuuge. There are so many options. This everything are sooo many working hours, that i am happy is not more expensive.

I am glad you are happy with the price - and I'm sure Kolor will be too.

I understand that € 400 is pretty much for a hobbyist, but you can have the PT for just € 100.[/quyote]

Don't forget the VAT - but I guess as a pro you reclaim that from the taxman?

--
please excuse my terrible English!

That's OK I've been patronised in worse English in my time. :P

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:55 pm
by mediavets
Virtuel Rundtur wrote:From my point of view i was actually hoping that the price for PTP 2.0 was much much higher.

I'm sure Kolor will allow you to pay them more than they are asking if paying more makes you feel more professional. It's a pricing tactic that's worked well for Adobe all these years after all.

I do believe that the Pro in PanoTour Pro means it is for professionals.

I don't think it means anything at all - anymore than GTi on the back of a VW Golf means anything. But if trite branding floats your boat...

Not because i swim in money or anything like this, but here in Denmark, there seems to be a lot of these hobbieist, trying to earn some easy money on virtual tours. The result is really bad looking virtual tours, with a poor picture quality and terrible designs. If customers generelly believe that this is the quality of virtual tours, built in PTP, our business is destroyed for those of us who try to do it properly using PTP.

A sweeping generalisation....Some hobbyists produce very good quality work, and I've seen cr*p delivered by some who claim to be pros.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:16 pm
by Virtuel Rundtur
mediavets wrote:
Virtuel Rundtur wrote:From my point of view i was actually hoping that the price for PTP 2.0 was much much higher.

I'm sure Kolor will allow you to pay them more than they are asking if paying more makes you feel more professional. It's a pricing tactic that's worked well for Adobe all these years after all.

You miss my point. If everybody can afford the Pro version, trust me, the reputation of PTP will be worse. If Photoshop where priced at 20 bucks, do you think it would be the choice of professionals? Who should then pay for the development?

I do believe that the Pro in PanoTour Pro means it is for professionals.

I don't think it means anything at all - anymore than GTi on the back of a VW Golf means anything. But if trite branding floats your boat...

Not because i swim in money or anything like this, but here in Denmark, there seems to be a lot of these hobbieist, trying to earn some easy money on virtual tours. The result is really bad looking virtual tours, with a poor picture quality and terrible designs. If customers generelly believe that this is the quality of virtual tours, built in PTP, our business is destroyed for those of us who try to do it properly using PTP.

A sweeping generalisation....Some hobbyists produce very good quality work, and I've seen cr*p delivered by some who claim to be pros.

I'm sure Kolor will allow you to pay them more than they are asking if paying more makes you feel more professional. It's a pricing tactic that's worked well for Adobe all these years after all.

You miss my point. If everybody can afford the Pro version, trust me, the reputation of PTP will be worse. If Photoshop where priced at 20 bucks, do you think it would be the choice of professionals? Who should then pay for the development?

A sweeping generalisation....Some hobbyists produce very good quality work, and I've seen cr*p delivered by some who claim to be pros.

I am quite sure i wrote a lot. Not all hobbyist. And yes, there are also "pros" who has lost their pride in their work.

Cheers

Henrik

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:27 am
by mediavets
Virtuel Rundtur wrote:You miss my point. If everybody can afford the Pro version, trust me, the reputation of PTP will be worse.

Well we can't have 'common' people using PTP can we! :P

If Photoshop where priced at 20 bucks, do you think it would be the choice of professionals?

Why not if it did the job? There's some sort of weird 'snobbery' going one with Adobe products, whereby so-called professional creatives seem to believe that the more something costs the better it must be.

Who should then pay for the development?

Development is presumably paid for (and some) from sales revenue from new customers and from upgrades. And if you spend more on development than you get back because, say, the price is too high to generate sufficient demand, or the market is smaller than you thought, then you go bust.

One can take different approaches to generating revenues. If the market opportunity is large enough you could choose to price relatively low and aim to sell a bucket load and dominate the market (a tactic adopted by developers of many iDevice Apps and the likes of Walmart), or if the market is small you might have to privce high to get sufficient revenues. And there are those who choose to limit their market (still further) by pricing high and seek to invest their high-priced product with other 'values'. Adobe, Ferrai, Rolls Royce, BMW/Mini, etc etc.

Kolor seems to be veering towards the latter approach with PTP 2.x but if the price means that only pros will buy it then that pro market if pretty small and perhaps too small to attract third-party developers to create PTP add-ons/add-ins.

All I'm really saying is that's likely to be too large a gap between the price and feature set of PT and the price and feature set of PTP, when I believe that there is a substantial 'middle' market which is not being addressed.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:08 pm
by HansKeesom
mediavets wrote:.......

All I'm really saying is that's likely to be too large a gap between the price and feature set of PT and the price and feature set of PTP, when I believe that there is a substantial 'middle' market which is not being addressed.

And you always try to get the middle market into buying the upper market product. Will the middle market fall back to the lower market product or will they earn some more money and buy the upper market product.

I think PTP 2.0 will be worth it's proce you can make money with panoramas.

But I can imagine when you start with this and you have just bought a fisheye, a panohead and AP(p/g) buying PTP 2.0 (and a bigger computer) can be a bit too much. I notice that with photographers that join me to produce virtual tours, they are happy they can use my machines remotely and save theirselves hundreds of euro's

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:05 pm
by fruitygreen
The price is , what it is.

There may always be risks for buyers and sellers.

The risk for buyers, may appear that the product is either not worthed or justifiable. This the reason trials are present.

The risk for the sellers, may be it turns their reputation in either direction. Marketing is key here. How they sell it, but who knows.
I have bought bad products before. Some of them were deemed "not worthed" only after the fact a competitors product has been released with better features and cheaper.

I have a simple approach to buying.

If you need it, then buy it.
If you can't afford it, ask yourself " Do I need it?"
If you need it and can't afford, ask yourself " Why do you need it?"

As a professional it is called an investment. If you cannot make more than you spend, then you are in the wrong business.
As a hobbyist it is called an expensive hobby. It is easier to decide because your welfare does not ride on it.

My opinion: Kolor has great products with unique features that I need. So I will pay whatever price it is set at. They do have products that I find not worthed, but I don't need it so it don't matter.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:43 pm
by netline
I for one am totally happy with the upgrade price!!!

If you convert the upgrade my to my Currency it will land up costing me R2600 at todays rate. From one Virtual Tour client i will triple this investment. So thats my answer.

Cannot wait for it to be released.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:46 am
by itsrichphoto
I didnt see the video, but I appreciate the work that goes into ptp2

I am also an old skool krpano user and bought ptp 1.8 about 2months ago

I bought it on the premise that Kolor stated that any upgrades within 1yr of purchase would be included. Otherwise I would have probably held back and waited for PTP2. Since the IRVP i believe that statement has changed. You could say we have been sold short.

I would be happy to pay an upgrade fee, but not 200euros, the same as ptp1.8 because of the time between purchase and upgrade.