Real Estate Tours  

Share your tips and tricks here or get help with any Panotour problem!
No bug reports (of any kind) in this forum!
User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

Real Estate Tours

by signmaster » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:55 am

Hi
I am after some advise. I run a signwriting business and have a small product photography studio. My son helps with the management. We currently employ about 7 people and things are getting a bit quiet. Lots of competition, price cutting etc. I am looking at obtaining some extra work producing virtual tours for some of our Real Estate clients. Tinking of upgrading to Panotour Pro and would like some feed back as to it being the best choice for Real Estate tours?
I am thinking about buying a laser measurment device and drawing up some basic floor plans to impliment with the tour, any advise and feedback appreciated.
Steve
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/

no avatar
mediavets
Moderator
 
Posts: 16415
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 130 posts
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Info

by mediavets » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:13 pm

In many parts of the world the real estate tour market exhibits the fierce 'competition and price cutting ' you are experiencing in other parts of your business.

Perhaps thing are different in your locality?

In the UK it appears that most mass market real estate agents take photos themselves (often of very poor quality) and occasionaly display these as a slideshow, but that's typically as far as it goes.

Most agents have their own web sites but probably rely more on multi-agent sites such as rightmove.co.uk here in the UK and I'm not sure those sites can/will accept virtual tours in any format.

So my advice is do your market research very thoroughly before making any major investment in hardware and software.
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:24 pm

mediavets wrote:So my advice is do your market research very thoroughly before making any major investment in hardware and software.

I fully agree!

I saw people spending lots of money in buyingfancy equipment - and never got it to earn enough money.
They over-estimated their own skills and they under-estimated the importance of being experienced in both photographical and
technical ways as well as in commercial understandings.

We dealt with some major real-estate companies when we shot and built tours for clients. They usually don´t
want to show panoramas/tours but prefer usual - and usually badly made - photographs.
The reason is - took me some time to understand - that they are used to "talking" the visitors into an object and prefer
the visitors to "not knowing too much" about an object before the visit . .
They say that visitors who saw a panorama-tour from the object before the visit are too pre-occupied . .
And they´re right!

That´s the reason why you can´t make much money with usual real-estate business.

Differently it is with VERY big and VERY expensive objects where you accompany the complete phase of construction with
panos or tours.
As we did here:
http://koebogen.info/ko-bogen-total-360/
http://360impressions.de/KBogen413/
http://360impressions.de/ArchivseiteKbogen/

But first you need to come into contact with them . . :cool:
You need to show the real good work first for to convince them you are the right one . .

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

by signmaster » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:37 am

Thanks for the advise.
I live in a smaller country town. Most of the agents rely on their group sites. As far as I can tell none of them have 360 tours, only slide shows and poor photographs. I don't need to spend much on equipment as I think I have all that is necessary. My only extra cost would be to upgrade to Panotour Pro. I would only need to pick up a few jobs each month to make it worth while.
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/

User avatar
UK Pano
Member
 
Posts: 372
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Sunny South East UK
Info

by UK Pano » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:30 am

Being a small town, talk to the agents to see if there is an interest from them for this medium in their business. That way, takes the guess out of whether there is a demand for the real estate.

I tried it here in the UK with my local agents and (ridiculously we have 9 different companies running in the main street!) after a lot of discussions on the benefits, demostrations of how VT can be used proactively for there advertising and as a cross sell product, it was a small independant who we started one or two tours for for him to see how his clients used/reacted to the tours. It was positive but very slow to get more.

Over time we now do a lot for him and his competitors subsequently have also engaged me for VT so that they were not see to be behind in offering VT's on their own sites.

There is not a lot of work from them but in having multiple branches across the county, we are slowly getting more branch manager contacts to talk to. Each time though is the same "sell" as we did to get in the door with the first agent even though he sings our praises all the time!

Talk to the agents as part of your market research is what I'm trying to say and all the best
Canon 400D / Canon 24-105mm L / Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE / Sigma 10-20mm / Sigma 70-300mm / NN3 & R1 / PS CS2 / LR3 / Enfuse

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:33 am

signmaster wrote:Thanks for the advise.
I live in a smaller country town. Most of the agents rely on their group sites. As far as I can tell none of them have 360 tours, only slide shows and poor photographs. I don't need to spend much on equipment as I think I have all that is necessary. My only extra cost would be to upgrade to Panotour Pro. I would only need to pick up a few jobs each month to make it worth while.

For average real-estate work i strongly suggest to buy a good fullframe-camera, a good fisheye lens and a good manual head.
I suggest a Canon 5D2/3 or a Nikon fulframe. A 5D2/3 gives you plenty of resolution to be able to do some zooming in the pano.
A Canon 15mm fisheye you also can get fore a good price - the newer 8-15mm fisheye zoom is more expensive, but also very good.
For a FX Nikon i definitely suggest the Nikon 16mm fisheye - a very fine lens.

A NodalNinja3 or 5 or a Manfrotto SPH or any other good manual head and a good tripod would complete the setup.

As stitcher i suggest AutoPano Pro/Giga - even when you don´t do any gigapixels, Giga provides some more options than AutoPano Pro. So does Panotour Pro over PanoTour.

But the most important thing is learning to handle these devices and apps appropriately - and learning about the basics of shooting and processing interactive
panoramas BEFORE you start shooting them . . . :cool:

There´s nothing "automatic" in it . . . ;)

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

by signmaster » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:13 am

I have a Canon 5D mk iii, 8mm Sigma fisheye, Nodal Ninja Ultimate R10 7.5 degree head, Auto Pano Pro, Panotour, a good tripod, etc. I have stitched many normal panos and a smaller number of 360s. I have found it a lot harder stitching 360 panos. A couple of examples at the bottom of this page http://signsplus.com.au/photography.html
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:37 am

signmaster wrote:A couple of examples at the bottom of this page http://signsplus.com.au/photography.html

Yes - the resolution is rather low when i go to fullscreen. That´s because you loose a lot of resolution using an 8mm circular fisheye. Using a 15mm fullframe fisheye you´ll have a much better resolution when viewing fullscreen.

What´s your issue stitching 360° panos? Did you try AutoPano Giga (or PTGui)? Did you try PanoTour Pro?

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

no avatar
mediavets
Moderator
 
Posts: 16415
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 130 posts
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Info

by mediavets » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:28 pm

signmaster wrote:I have a Canon 5D mk iii, 8mm Sigma fisheye, Nodal Ninja Ultimate R10 7.5 degree head, Auto Pano Pro, Panotour, a good tripod, etc. I have stitched many normal panos and a smaller number of 360s. I have found it a lot harder stitching 360 panos. A couple of examples at the bottom of this page http://signsplus.com.au/photography.html

If you also have a Canon APS-C body then you'll most likely get a higher res. pano using that - 4-around - instead of the fullframe 5D MkIII.

If you go for a fullframe fisheye such as the Canon 15mm or Canon 8-15mm with the 5D MkIII then you will need a different pano head, such as the Nodal Ninja 4.
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

by signmaster » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:57 pm

Thanks for the info Andrew, I also have a Canon 7D, only had it a few months. The 7D was an insurance replacement for a 50D that was accidently filled with salt water. I have not used it with my 8mm Sigma but will give it a try.
Regards
Steve
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/

User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

by signmaster » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:07 pm

Klaus. I am using Autopano Giga 3, always have trouble with getting an accurate stitch. Sections of the roof and floor just don't line up correctly. I normally have to mess around adding control points, then fix up bits and pieces in Photoshop. Normally shoot 4 around with the 8mm Sigma, sometimes one up as well when I use a half home made head. I have not tried Panotour Pro as yet.
Regards
Steve
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

signmaster wrote:Klaus. I am using Autopano Giga 3, always have trouble with getting an accurate stitch. Sections of the roof and floor just don't line up correctly.

Hey Steve!

Sounds yo need to carefully check your NPP-alignment.

Especially shooting indoors a really correct alignment is essential because of the narrow shooting distance compared to outddoor shootings or shooting in large rooms.
I realized that even with my fisheye a mis-alignment of two millimeters causes issues in the stitching - the issues rise dramatically the narrower the space you work in.

Having *precisely* aligned the setup stitching fisheye-shots in APG usually gives almost perfect results in seconds. One or two optimizing steps - which also run very fast and easy - and you´re done having a RMS around 1,5.

No need to retouch stitch-errors in Photoshop at all.

best, Klaus

PS:
i suggest to do the horizontal row @-10 or 12° and one Zenith shot @90° with a 15mm fullframe-fisheye on your 5DIII. This provides a very small Nadir-hole which very easily can be closed by cloning. The lens gives you 120Mpx on your camera - that provides a nice zoom range . . not really much, but ok.
With fisheyes it´s also a good way to use the Nadir-adapter from NN for shooting the Nadir additionally. I prefer the cloning-method.
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

no avatar
mediavets
Moderator
 
Posts: 16415
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 130 posts
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Info

by mediavets » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:13 pm

klausesser wrote:PS:
i suggest to do the horizontal row @-10 or 12° and one Zenith shot @90° with a 15mm fullframe-fisheye on your 5DIII. This provides a very small Nadir-hole which very easily can be closed by cloning. The lens gives you 120Mpx on your camera - that provides a nice zoom range . . not really much, but ok.
With fisheyes it´s also a good way to use the Nadir-adapter from NN for shooting the Nadir additionally. I prefer the cloning-method.

Klaus,

He'd need a different FE lens AND a different pano head to try this.

He has a NN R-10, that's a ring-style pano head with a fixed positive pitch of +7.5.

Should work well with a Canon 7D and the Sigma 8mm FE lens.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:28 pm

mediavets wrote:
klausesser wrote:PS:
i suggest to do the horizontal row @-10 or 12° and one Zenith shot @90° with a 15mm fullframe-fisheye on your 5DIII. This provides a very small Nadir-hole which very easily can be closed by cloning. The lens gives you 120Mpx on your camera - that provides a nice zoom range . . not really much, but ok.
With fisheyes it´s also a good way to use the Nadir-adapter from NN for shooting the Nadir additionally. I prefer the cloning-method.

Klaus,

He'd need a different FE lens AND a different pano head to try this.

He has a NN R-10, that's a ring-style pano head with a fixed positive pitch of +7.5.

Should work well with a Canon 7D and the Sigma 8mm FE lens.

Hey Andrew!

Yes ( i can read also :P :cool:) . . . but 8mm on a fullframe 5DIII makes no sense in my eyes. He gives away resolution. And that´s recognizable immediately viewing his spheres fullscreen.

A very good camera but a lens which doesn´t make use of the camera´s capabilities . .

When he´s up to enter commercial panorama-producing this level of quality denfinitely is not really a good start i mean! There are millions of amateurs heading for this kind of business to make some money providing comparable image-quality.

They offer panos extremely cheap. So as a commercial photographer the way is to convince potential clients showing them that you can deliver better quality than the cheapos . . . and not just the same quality - but for a higher price . . . :cool:

Just my two cent.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

no avatar
mediavets
Moderator
 
Posts: 16415
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 130 posts
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Info

by mediavets » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:41 pm

klausesser wrote:Yes ( i can read also :P :cool:) . . . but 8mm on a fullframe 5DIII makes no sense in my eyes. He gives away resolution. And that´s recognizable immediately viewing his spheres fullscreen.

A very good camera but a lens which doesn´t make use of the camera´s capabilities . .

I agree - that why I asked if he also had an APS-C sensor Canon body; and he has, a 7D.

The 7D with the Sigma 8mm using the R10 should produce 'decent' spherical panos suitable for real estate clients in a small Australian town.

When he´s up to enter commercial panorama-producing this level of quality denfinitely is not really a good start i mean! There are millions of amateurs heading for this kind of business to make some money providing comparable image-quality.

They offer panos extremely cheap. So as a commercial photographer the way is to convince potential clients showing them that you can deliver better quality than the cheapos . . . and not just the same quality - but for a higher price . . . :cool:

Just my two cent.

It seems there are not 'millions of amateurs' offering pano photography and virtual tours in his small Australian town. And he has an established signage and product photography business so does not have to build a business 'presence' from scratch.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

User avatar
klausesser
Member
 
Posts: 8836
Likes: 5 posts
Liked in: 64 posts
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Info

by klausesser » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:34 pm

mediavets wrote:And he has an established signage and product photography business so does not have to build a business 'presence' from scratch.

In terms of panoramas i guess he does. Different kind of photography, different marketing meachanisms.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

User avatar
signmaster
Member
 
Topic author
Posts: 289
Likes: 52 posts
Liked in: 36 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Swan Hill, Australia
Info

by signmaster » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:21 am

Thanks for the advise. I must say I did not realize that so much accuracy is required when shooting indoor panoramas. I have ordered a rotator mini with 90 degree click stops for R10. I have been using a Really Right Stuff ball head with a rotating top section, no click stops. If I start to get more/different clients I will definitely consider investing in a new lens and head. There is one thing that I constantly tell myself but don't always do and that is to "buy the best gear, tools etc. that I can afford". Also our internet speed is not all that great so a not so high resolution may not be a big problem, 8mm on my 7D may be just right?
Regards
Steve
_____________________
Steve
http://360pano.com.au/


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest