jaggies in the iPad version of the tours  

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burake
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jaggies in the iPad version of the tours

by burake » Fri May 31, 2013 8:46 pm

Hi everybody,
I do create VT with PTP 1.8. My panos are sized 10000x5000 pks. When the tours run on my iPad 4 there are severe jaggies at the edges. Don't know a way of taking screenshots form my iPad so I can't post any examples here but you can check for example this tour if you use an iPad:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/sevinckonaklari/sevinckonaklari.html

I guess these jaggies occur while PTP "squeezes" the 3184 pks cube faces to the the tablet cube face size of 1024 pks. Is there a way of avoiding this?

Any answer will be highly appreciated

Burak

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klausesser
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by klausesser » Fri May 31, 2013 8:57 pm

burake wrote:Hi everybody,
I do create VT with PTP 1.8. My panos are sized 10000x5000 pks. When the tours run on my iPad 4 there are severe jaggies at the edges. Don't know a way of taking screenshots form my iPad so I can't post any examples here but you can check for example this tour if you use an iPad:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/sevinckonaklari/sevinckonaklari.html

I guess these jaggies occur while PTP "squeezes" the 3184 pks cube faces to the the tablet cube face size of 1024 pks. Is there a way of avoiding this?

Any answer will be highly appreciated

Burak

That´s a known issue with iPad-Retina-displays. Hans Nyberg wrote about it on the KRPano-forum. The reason is an automatic scaling which iOS on Retinas maks happen.
Afaik you need to use 1440px for cubefaces to avoid double-scaling (first up and then down or so . . )

Afaik it´s only with iPad 3 or 4.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by burake » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:35 pm

Klaus thank you very much. On another tour with 10000x5000 panos I tried with cube face size of 1440 but it occurs to me taht it didn't change anything. For comparision

Cube face size 3184:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3TR/canyon3TR.html

Cube face size 1440:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3jaggies/virtualtour.html

And I faced a new problem; this time the tour on my 21,5 inch desktop has also jaggies

I tried with changing the cutting size too, it won't help. This tour is with cube face size 1440 and cutting size 360

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3TR_1440/virtualtour.html

I guess I'm missing something but what? :(

Regards
Burak

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by klausesser » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:53 pm

burake wrote:Klaus thank you very much. On another tour with 10000x5000 panos I tried with cube face size of 1440 but it occurs to me taht it didn't change anything. For comparision

Cube face size 3184:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3TR/canyon3TR.html

Cube face size 1440:

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3jaggies/virtualtour.html

And I faced a new problem; this time the tour on my 21,5 inch desktop has also jaggies

I tried with changing the cutting size too, it won't help. This tour is with cube face size 1440 and cutting size 360

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3TR_1440/virtualtour.html

I guess I'm missing something but what? :(

Regards
Burak

Hey Burak!

Basically 10000x5000px is somewhat low for a pano on desktops these days. I suggest at least 15000-20000px width. Modern displays have a fine pixel-pitch.
When the pano is shown fullscreen 10k x 5k might be a bit low.

with http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/sanal-tur/canyon3TR_1440/virtualtour.html i see no jaggies on my 30" Apple display (2560x1600px).
So i guess you have a severe display- or graphic-card issue!

best, Klaus

PS:

i suggest to use the "auto" function for "reduce distortion" resp. "cubeface" in PTP and i suggest to use jpg@7 or 8.
Last edited by klausesser on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by burake » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:10 am

Hi Klaus,
PTP creates cube faces called tabletface for every panorama. I can see them in the output folder. In the moment I decide to create iPhone/iPad compatible tours PTP creates these. And these are then displayed on the iPad. When I look to these cube faces in Photoshop I can see that the jaggies I am talking about are already there. iPad doesn't do something extra -or maybe it does but it isn't imprortant in this context- it displays this cube face which has "already the undesired jaggies". This must be happening while downsizing the origial cube face to a tablet cube face of 1024 pks. It doesn't help to choose for example 1440 instead of the supposed 3184 piks as cube face size (one can see this clearly on iPad as in the examples in my previous post), this just brings my overall quality down. I hope this will be fixed in PTP 2.0.

PS: When I use "reduce distortion" or not the result is the same on iPads and I use depending on the pano JPG quality 8 or 9.

Regards
Burak
Last edited by burake on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:52 pm

burake wrote:iPad doesn't do something extra -or maybe it does but it isn't imprortant in this context- it displays this cube face which has "already the undesired jaggies". This must be happening while downsizing the origial cube face to a tablet cube face of 1024 pks. It doesn't help to choose for example 1440 instead of the supposed 3184 piks as cube face size (one can see this clearly on iPad as in the examples in my previous post), this just brings my overall quality down. I hope this will be fixed in PTP 2.0.

PS: When I use "reduce distortion" or not the result is the same on iPads and I use depending on the pano JPG quality 8 or 9.

Hi Burak!

I didn´t understand you´re referring to the iPad only, sorry.

In fact the iPad 3 DOES "something extra": it uses up- AND downscaling combined when showing cubefaces (which all panoramas are).
That´s a known issue with vers. 3 iPads. Some people are trying to compensate it. Look on the KRPano-site.

It´s NOT an issue with PTP. There are strategies to minimize this issue - search in the KRPano forum for avoiding this scaling-issue in iOS.
We had the same issue with an iPad-version here: http://www.360impressions.de/Specials_Spiegel_ElGreco.html (6000x3000px, dedicated iPad version for "Der Spiegel")

Watch the pano on your iPad - i´m curious whether you see jaggies or not.

here we have other panos done exclusively for iPad:
http://360impressions.de/LichtturmPad/

Check for the jaggies here too!


best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by burake » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:44 pm

Wow Klaus,
What a great pano in the museum. I love the dark and alight areas. Perfect balanced light for a museum. Yes I can see the jaggies also there. Always there where there are diagonal lines. At the ceiling, at the lines where the wall meets the floor etc. I can see them also in der Leuchtturm but to a lesser extend. Look at the bricks to the left and right side of the entrance to the tower. And these iPad-jaggies don't disappear when one zooms in. They are not effected from zooming in or out at all. This is diiferent when I watch my desktop version. I have jaggies due to my FOV. When I am at 70 I have some when I zoom in to the maximum FOV I have chosen by creating the tour ( I choose here always 40) I don't have any jaggies and when I am zooming out to the max. extend they are severe. But OKn this is here about the iPad. I just came home and now I'll "dive" into KRPano forum" Thank you very much for your sharings. Regards
Burak

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by mosleyhgp » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:12 pm

I think what you're seeing is the difference between the flash version (desktop) and the HTML5 version (iPad).

I don't believe HTML5 supports multires yet, so when you zoom in to the HTML5 version, all pixels will get larger and show jaggies past a certain point.

Take a look at the second message here: http://www.krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=45907&highlight=html5+multires#post45907

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by klausesser » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:35 pm

mosleyhgp wrote:I think what you're seeing is the difference between the flash version (desktop) and the HTML5 version (iPad).

I don't believe HTML5 supports multires yet, so when you zoom in to the HTML5 version, all pixels will get larger and show jaggies past a certain point.

Take a look at the second message here: http://www.krpano.com/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=45907&highlight=html5+multires#post45907

Multires don´t work on iDevices and Androids. So i restrict zoom to 100% - no pixel gets sized up over it´s native size. No enlargement at all.
So that´s not the reason for the jaggies. The reason is rezising twice in Safari on iOS.

best, Klaus
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by mosleyhgp » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:51 pm

klausesser wrote:here we have other panos done exclusively for iPad:
http://360impressions.de/LichtturmPad/

Check for the jaggies here too!


best, Klaus

Looking at it with a first generation iPad, I see what he's referring to. Some jaggies are there and seem to be accentuated by what looks like JPEG artifact. The stair railings inside the lighthouse and the ceiling center opening show them most clearly.

http://www.bilisimfotograf.com/images/s … ltour.html shows the same, but to a slightly lesser degree.


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