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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:55 pm 
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Location: Overland Park, KS (Kansas City
Greetings,

I started a new topic because Josef thinks maybe there is a problem in the head.

When I go thru the procedure usung the Touch control to shoot a mosaic it is as if I never did the lower left position.

Once the last right arrow is sellected to begin shooting it moves from right to left taking three pictures.

I have reviewed with Josef the way I move from lower left to upper right. I am following the directions.

I sent him my saved lens file so we know that is okay.

Josef wonders if there is not something loose or wrong int the head.

Anyone one have an idea?

thanks

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Dan - Panogear Complete Kit, Autopano Giga, Canon 10d, 500d, 18-55mm IS, Sigma 8mm, Bophoto, Roundshot 220vr, Widepan Pro II, Horizon 202, Speed, Super Speed & Crown Graphic, Super Ikonta C and other old folders. Toshiba Vista 32 bit

"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes just might find you get what you need." (Stones '69)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Foto1,

I moved your topic to the Panogear sub-forum because that's really where it belongs.

The Panogear sub-forum has been created as a 'home' for with all issues arisng from hardware and software acquired as part of a Panogear package from Kolor or SkiVR, as opposed to a set of hardware and software independently sourced from multiple sources by a user.

We think this form of organisation of forum posts will provide the best support for Panogear package users.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:41 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
Greetings,

I started a new topic because Josef thinks maybe there is a problem in the head.

When I go thru the procedure usung the Touch control to shoot a mosaic it is as if I never did the lower left position.

Once the last right arrow is sellected to begin shooting it moves from right to left taking three pictures.

I have reviewed with Josef the way I move from lower left to upper right. I am following the directions.

I sent him my saved lens file so we know that is okay.

thanks

Can we establish just where we are now please.

You started out reporting problems with the software used to 'program' the Touch controller.

Have all those problems now been resolved?

Is that software now thought to be working correctly?

Do you and Josef believe that the Touch controller is being 'programmed' correctly from your PC?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:10 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
Josef wonders if there is not something loose or wrong in the head.

Anyone one have an idea?

thanks

Well, of course if we could get a working Bluetooth connection from your laptop to the Merlin head then we could use Papywizard and get a better idea as to whether the Merlin head is working properly. I guess that'll have to wait until you get back to Kansas City and can get hold of a USB Bluetooth dongle?

Reading the Panogear manual I have the impression that the standard Merlin mount hand controller is not supplied with the Panogear package - is that correct?

If in fact you do have the standard hand controller then use it to see whether the Merlin head is working as expected using that controller.
..........

This must be getting very frustrating for you - I don't think I can recall any other recent user of Merlin/Papywizard having quite such bad luck and quite so many diverse problems.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:58 pm 
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The only thing I know for sure is that the file that the software made, I guess it is a profile of my camera and lens, worked on Josef's unit.

I have no idea if my controler is using this data properly or not.

Josef just said it has not happened before and it could be something loose or wrong in the head.

I know that I am doing the movement with the controler right. lower left then upper right.
Once this is done the controler shows it is only going to take 3 pictures and it does do that very well.
However, the mosaic should be at least 18 exposures.

For the spherical it just spins and you need to stop it before it strangles itself with eh pc cord.

I started a new topic because of loose connection or something wrong with the head thinking by Josef. If it is something like that it might attract the right forum user to the problem.

After saying all of that, the short answer is, after 3 days of trying to figure this out, I am absolutly sure I am no farther along than I was when I started. I am not mad or blaming anyone just frustrated.

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"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes just might find you get what you need." (Stones '69)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:08 am 
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Quote:
foto1 wrote:

The only thing I know for sure is that the file that the software made, I guess it is a profile of my camera and lens, worked on Josef's unit.

I have no idea if my controler is using this data properly or not.

Is there any way of finding out?

Quote:
Josef just said it has not happened before and it could be something loose or wrong in the head.

As they say there's a first time for everything. Off the top of my head I cannot think of anything that could be 'loose or wrong in the head' that would cause the effects you describe.

Quote:
I know that I am doing the movement with the controller right. lower left then upper right.
Once this is done the controler shows it is only going to take 3 pictures and it does do that very well.
However, the mosaic should be at least 18 exposures.

Why do you think it should be at least 18 exposures? Could it be that it is calculating correctly but that you have not entered the correct parameters for the camera/lens/sensor etc?

Quote:
For the spherical it just spins and you need to stop it before it strangles itself with the pc cord.

And what would you expect it to do?

Is there not also another mode for specifiying a pano - something like setting the centre point and then specifiying the VFOV and HFOV - did you try doing it that way?
Quote:
I started a new topic because of loose connection or something wrong with the head thinking by Josef. If it is something like that it might attract the right forum user to the problem.

There's no issue about your starting a new topic I see your logic, it's just where you posted that new topic - since your Merlin head was part of a Panogear package it's best that your post appears here in the Panogear sub-forum.

You see, because your Merlin head was part of a Panogear package, we should know for sure which version of firmware is installed in your Merlin head and that's possibly a relevant concern; whereas if your Merlin head had been sourced independently and was not part of a Panogear package it could have any one of a number of different versions of the firmware.

Quote:
After saying all of that, the short answer is, after 3 days of trying to figure this out, I am absolutly sure I am no farther along than I was when I started. I am not mad or blaming anyone just frustrated.

I'm sure you are feeling very friustrated, me too; the challenge (in trying to help you) for the most experienced users of Merlin mounts who are regular contributors to the forum is that only one of us (Klaus) AFAIK has any experience at all of the Touch controller, the rest all use Papywizard. So there are not too many folk here who will be able to help you with the Touch controller I'm afraid.

It seems to me that we cannot yet assume that your Touch controller is working properly, so it's perhaps a bit premature to attribute the problems to the Merlin head.

We need to try and rule out, or rule in, the functionality of your Merlin head without using the Touch controller.

So we need to think of alternative ways of testing the functionality of the Merlin mount...

If you don't get the standard hand controller for the Merlin mount with the Panogear package then it seems to me that the only alternative is to try and see if we can get the Merlin head working with Papywizard and we can't do that until you have a BT device working on your laptop. How soon might you be able to get hold of a(nother) USB BT 'dongle'?

Andrew Stephens
Nikon D40, Nikkor 10.5mm fisheye, Sigma 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Nikkor 18-55/50/35mm lenses, Nodal Ninja 5 Lite, Agno's Mrotator TCSshort
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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:48 am 
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mediavets wrote:
If you don't get the standard hand controller for the Merlin mount with the Panogear package then it seems to me that the only alternative is to try and see if we can get the Merlin head working with Papywizard and we can't do that until you have a BT device working on your laptop. How soon might you be able to get hold of a(nother) USB BT 'dongle'?

Original wired standard hand controller is included in Panogear kit so you can test that way if at least head itself works correctly, so we may know for sure it's not an hardware issue in it and concentrate on either Bluetooth connection or controller to get it working !

Vincèn

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:30 pm 
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BT Dongle is defective.

It has also been decided by Josef that the vertical sensor in the head is also not working.

So I can not do anything with the touch control either.

If anyone has experience with vertical sensor problems I would like to hear about it.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:02 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
BT Dongle is defective.

So you say.

Quote:
It has also been decided by Josef that the vertical sensor in the head is also not working.

Oh, and by what means did he determine that?

Did you attempt a test using Angle mode (as opposed to the mosaic mode)?

Quote:
So I can not do anything with the touch control either.

You seem to have been exceptionally unlucky, you appear to have a defective USB Bluetooth dongle, a defective Merlin mount, and possibly a defective Touch controller.

What are the odds of that happening? Could there be some truth in the old saying that bad things come in threes?

Quote:
If anyone has experience with vertical sensor problems I would like to hear about it.

Thanks.

I've never heard of anyone having vertical sensor problems. Slippage on that axis (where the motor runs but the arm doesn't move), yes, but not a sensor problem.
............

Vincen says that you will have received the standard Merlin mount hand controller with the Panogear package.

Do you have it with you?

If you do perhaps you would be willing try using Cruise and Shot as documented on page 7 of the Merlin mount manual:
http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/swtsupport/Instruction_Manuals/Multi-function%20mount.pdf

...........

As a matter of interest what camera and lens are you trying to use with the Touch controller?

What values did you enter for this combination in the Touch controller software for the various parameters:



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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:21 pm 
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Hi all,

According the descriptions made by "foto1", I come also to the same conclusions:

The small BT dongle is defective !
Something of the "vertical part" of the Merlin is defective (Pitch axis) and probably the sensor part !

We can't say if the "tactile pad" and/or the "BT module" are defectives !

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Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Foto1,

This may seem like a silly question but...

When you had the Touch controller connected to the Merlin head did you also have the Bluetooth device or the Merlin hand controller connected in the second socket on the head?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Hey Andrew !

Your question is not so stupid !!! ;)

Never plug more then one controler at the same time ...

Or it is the Hand control
Or the BT module
Or the Tactile controler

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Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:27 pm 
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claudevh wrote:
Hi all,

According the descriptions made by "foto1", I come also to the same conclusions:

The small BT dongle is defective !
Something of the "vertical part" of the Merlin is defective (Pitch axis) and probably the sensor part !

We can't say if the "tactile pad" and/or the "BT module" are defectives !

Hi Claude,

How did you reach the conclusion that "Something of the "vertical part" of the Merlin is defective (Pitch axis) and probably the sensor part !"?

I don't recall anyone else ever reporting such a fault do you? Still there's a first time for everything.

I was hoping that trying to set up Cruise and Shot using the standard Merlin hand controller might confirm a possible sensor fault on the vertical/pitch axis - do you think it would?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Hello Andrew: :)
Quote:
How did you reach the conclusion that "Something of the "vertical part" of the Merlin is defective (Pitch axis) and probably the sensor part !"?

The Merlin can move in Pitch but don't stop ... This mean that the Pitch axis get the signal from the controler but can't give feedback to the controler .... this is the reason why the rotation don't stop
This is a dangerous situation for the Camera/Objective who can be partially destroyed !
Quote:
I don't recall anyone else ever reporting such a fault do you? Still there's a first time for everything.

I agree with you ... this is indeed the first time that this as been reported , but some other incident also like:
-missing cable for the shutter system
-disconnected cable for axis
Here we can eventually have a defective cable or connector or something like that ...
Quote:
I was hoping that trying to set up Cruise and Shot using the standard Merlin hand controller might confirm a possible sensor fault on the vertical/pitch axis - do you think it would?

Probably "Yes", but foto1 should program also vertical "pitch" displacement and make those trials without camera mounted !!!!
But I am not certain that the "hand controler" get feed-back from the head !

Frederic can maybe help in this matter ?

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Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Josef had me do a test with the touch pad.

In the angle mode if you add 1 deg more to the hor. and vert angles of view of your lens data it will effectivly add a row and column to the shot. You end up with the controler showing that it is going to make 4 shots. When we did this the head spun vertically until I turn the switch off. He said this is what told him it was the vet sensor. we do not know if it is defective or just not hooked up.

I sent him my files showing how I had set up the lenses. He said I did it right.
He tested them on his machine.

I did not have BT and Touch pluged in at the same time.

I tried the Cruise and shoot. It will not do anything that is saved for a vertical movement.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:50 pm 
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"foto1"

The last test with "cruise and shoot" is a CONFIRMATION of the "Pitch axis" problem ... no doubt !

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:53 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
Josef had me do a test with the touch pad.

In the angle mode if you add 1 deg more to the hor. and vert angles of view of your lens data it will effectivly add a row and column to the shot. You end up with the controler showing that it is going to make 4 shots. When we did this the head spun vertically until I turn the switch off. He said this is what told him it was the vet sensor. we do not know if it is defective or just not hooked up.

I sent him my files showing how I had set up the lenses. He said I did it right.
He tested them on his machine.

I did not have BT and Touch plugged in at the same time.

I tried the Cruise and shoot. It will not do anything that is saved for a vertical movement.

Thanks for the details. Now I understand better how Josef reached his conclusion.

And the Cruise and Shot test confirms it.

How frustrating for you.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:12 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
I did not have BT and Touch pluged in at the same time.
I tried the Cruise and shoot. It will not do anything that is saved for a vertical movement.

I think you should get in touch with Kolor to organise exchange of head :(

Vincèn

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:16 pm 
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I think that the Merlin does not read the sensor when moving in manual, but it does need it when using the goto function, whatever controler you use.

@foto1, you may try to open the head to check the cables; a connector is may be just not correctly plugged...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:21 pm 
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I do not know what area to look do you?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:28 pm 
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foto1 wrote:
I do not know what area to look do you?

No, but this is what it looks like inside:





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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Pay attention that the dismantling is not so easy and can void the garantee !
Have a look here:



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Problem Fixed!

The red arrow points to the verical sensor plug.

Mine was put together just like the picture sent to me mediavets.

Notice how the wire of the white plug over on the right goes underneath the vertical sensor plug wire.
It was lifting up on the vertical sensor plug. It had pulled up enough to break the connection.

By putting that right plug wire over the top of the vertical sensor plug it can not do this again.

It should not be put together like this.
I can see where over time of use, packing up gear and getting bumped around a little this could easily happen.
In fact when you put the other wire over instead of under they all hold each other in place better.

To do this < 2 minute procedure;
Take the 4 screws off of the bottom plate.
Take out the 2 screws that have been just revealed to you that hold the bottem end of the outside shell.
Take out the 2 screws that are just under where the head rotates.
Switch over-under as described above.
Put the screws back and you are in business!

Thank you everybody for your help! I'm sure I will need you again!
foto1



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Dan - Panogear Complete Kit, Autopano Giga, Canon 10d, 500d, 18-55mm IS, Sigma 8mm, Bophoto, Roundshot 220vr, Widepan Pro II, Horizon 202, Speed, Super Speed & Crown Graphic, Super Ikonta C and other old folders. Toshiba Vista 32 bit

"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes just might find you get what you need." (Stones '69)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Location: Mont-Saint-André (Belgium)
Andrew,

What is the blue part on the bottom of your Merlin ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:30 pm 
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claudevh wrote:
Andrew,

What is the blue part on the bottom of your Merlin ?

The picture was taken from the French part of the Wiki, it's not my mount but the blue part is (I think) a Q-top QR plate.

Here's the current version from MK - now red:
http://www.marc-kairies.de/english/q-top/index.html

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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