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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:34 am 
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APG does a excellent job aligning and stitching large multi gigapixel panoramas. Unfortunately the capabilities and workflow to publish those large panoramas or even tours of large panoramas with APT do not match APGs other capabillities.

The following extra features would be most helpful to improve the workflow and productivity with APG amd APT when working with large panoramas:

[uli]Better support for KRO in APT[/uli]
The add picture dialog in APT doesn't know KRO, eventhough KRO is supported by APT. Extending the file type selector in the dialog should be a nobrainer.
On very large panoramas (e.g. 145150*41500 pixels = 5.8 gigapixels in a 21.5 gigabyte KRO file) APT crashes and/or stops responding. This needs a fix.

[uli]Extended KRO-Format with Metadata[/uli]
The current KRO-Format does not have any metadata embeded. When a KRO is imported, APT doesn't have a clue about the field of view of the panorama.
It is not a big problem to enter this information by hand, but embeding the metadata in the KRO-files would for sure improve the workflow for APT users.

[uli]Extended KRO-Format with lower resolution preview picture and support for preview pic in APT[/uli]
Importing KRO files in APT tends to take ages, since the whole file has to be read by APT before displaying the picture in the program. It is forseeable that pano resolutions will continue to grow, which will result in longer and longer loading times (even on future hardware).
If KRO would embed a preview pic with lower resolution (e.g. embeded jpg with 10000*5000pixels for a 360*180 panorama) at the begining of the file, APT would only have to load this preview for the editing of the tour and the huge main picture in the KRO would not need to be accessed before the tour is rendered by APT.
If the KRO specs cant be extended with a preview pic, it would maybe also be possible to achieve the same goal by puting the preview pic in a separate file (which would have to be recognized by APT when the KRO is selected).
Working with preview pics would make working with APT much faster, more responsive and comfortable.

[uli]Suppport for PSB in APT[/uli]
APT does not (yet) support PSB. It would be nice if APT would support PSB for large panoramas. Preferably including metadata and preview picture as explained above (I dont know if PSB format allows that)

[uli]Full resolution support for large panos in APT[/uli]
Sometimes APT seems to be unwilling to accept the full resolution of a panorama in the size field (at least on partial panoramas). Full resolution support is a must at least for multi res exports.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:32 am 
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Hi!

The word "Tours" in APT means just that: TOURS. Usually nobody in the world makes a tour with a bunch of 145150*41500 pixels images.
If you want to do so APT is NOT your tool to do it.
Look at some single panos featuring gigapixels you will realize they´re made with the KRPanotools.

So i guess you expect APT to do things it simply isn´t made for. At the moment. Maybe a next step foreward will bring multires-tours doable alone in APT.
At the momentary state of development you´ll have to take the KRPanotools. They´re coming along with APT for an additional but very moderate price with an unlimited license.

It´s much less comfortable but it works fine - as some very big Gpix-panos show.

APT reads metatdata from APG - so you can crop a pano in APG and APT reads the fov and limits movement.

You can´t expect an application to do ALL you want - especially with such a dramatically developing app.

best, Klaus

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Last edited by klausesser on Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Hi Klaus

You're right, tours with loads of multigigapixel images do maybe not really make sense, but tours which have 1 or 2 really high resolution pictures are from my point of view a very realistic scenario.
A tour with a huge overview entry panorama with a lot of details plus a bunch of somewhat lower resolution panos for other places seems to be a quite logical idea to me. The Feldkirch panorama/tour which is linked from the Autopano main page is a good example.
That is why I think that proper support for large images in APT is important.

Being a software developer for the financial industry myself, I'm very aware of the fact that usability of software is of high importance. I've experienced more than once that software with good usabilty (easy to understand, stable, fast user interface) was prefered over more advanced software with extra features but less user friendly interface.

I'm know that the ideas in my original message cant be realized immediately, but I'm sure that APT would profit a lot from these improvments, since it would make things much easier to handle (in particular for non-techies, who dont want to get into a lot of tech details and background)

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Last edited by lizard.king on Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:04 pm 
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I can confirm you that this demand is already under development. On an internal version of APT, we can open gigapixels panorama, locate hotspots on gigapixels panorama, etc. Everything works.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:12 pm 
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lizard.king wrote:
You're right, tours with loads of multigigapixel images do maybe not really make sense, but tours which have 1 or 2 really high resolution pictures are from my point of view a very realistic scenario.
A tour with a huge overview entry panorama with a lot of details plus a bunch of somewhat lower resolution panos for other places seems to be a quite logical idea to me. The Feldkirch panorama/tour which is linked from the Autopano main page is a good example.
That is why I think that proper support for large images in APT is important.

I agree.

What's more I would like to see APT develop the ability to create 'tours' within a giga-pixel image. One way I could envisage this working would be for the user to create/define a series of 'snapshot' views (like snapshots in the Gigapan system) and then be able to sequence these on a time line with synched audio or user invoked narration - a sort of 'snapshot-slideshow' with synched audio but with user controls to override the automation which provided a guidede-tour of a gigapixel image. This could be one way to add that 'story telling' element to the gigapixel image.

Or maybe this is a separate product?

Quote:
I'm know that the ideas in my original message cant be realized immediately, but I'm sure that APT would profit a lot from these improvments, since it would make things much easier to handle (in particular for non-techies, who dont want to get into a lot of tech details and background)

I agree.

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Last edited by mediavets on Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:23 pm 
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I agree a snapshot and auto tours/narration within gigapixel images would expand the usability and profile of gigapixel images immediately. Expanding the creative use of gigapixel photography in this way is a natural progression for APT.

Best
Gordon

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:30 pm 
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I`m working on a case with 3-4 gigapixel images and 20-30 medium+ sized panos. I think there will be some market for gigapixel to gigapixel narration too.

One important feature to include is the ability to import the xml/tiles made from krpanotools to integrate in the authoring process.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:01 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
What's more I would like to see APT develop the ability to create 'tours' within a giga-pixel image. One way I could envisage this working would be for the user to create/define a series of 'snapshot' views (like snapshots in the Gigapan system) and then be able to sequence these on a time line with synched audio or user invoked narration - a sort of 'snapshot-slideshow' with synched audio but with user controls to override the automation which provided a guidede-tour of a gigapixel image. This could be one way to add that 'story telling' element to the gigapixel image.

I remember that someone posted a demo of such feature, but I can't find the link. This was exaclty what you suggest...

Edited: it was not made with APT...

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Last edited by fma38 on Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:08 pm 
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fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:
What's more I would like to see APT develop the ability to create 'tours' within a giga-pixel image. One way I could envisage this working would be for the user to create/define a series of 'snapshot' views (like snapshots in the Gigapan system) and then be able to sequence these on a time line with synched audio or user invoked narration - a sort of 'snapshot-slideshow' with synched audio but with user controls to override the automation which provided a guidede-tour of a gigapixel image. This could be one way to add that 'story telling' element to the gigapixel image.

I remember that someone posted a demo of such feature, but I can't find the link. This was exaclty what you suggest...

Edited: it was not made with APT...

Hi Fred!

Do you have a link? I´m not sure to understand what you mean.

best to you, Klaus

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Perhaps, this demand is suitable for APT subforum ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:28 pm 
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AlexandreJ wrote:
Perhaps, this demand is suitable for APT subforum ?

yes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:34 pm 
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fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:
What's more I would like to see APT develop the ability to create 'tours' within a giga-pixel image. One way I could envisage this working would be for the user to create/define a series of 'snapshot' views (like snapshots in the Gigapan system) and then be able to sequence these on a time line with synched audio or user invoked narration - a sort of 'snapshot-slideshow' with synched audio but with user controls to override the automation which provided a guidede-tour of a gigapixel image. This could be one way to add that 'story telling' element to the gigapixel image.

I remember that someone posted a demo of such feature, but I can't find the link. This was exaclty what you suggest...

Edited: it was not made with APT...

Frederic,

I think this is the post with a link to the demo you remembered?:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p32748-2008-11-16-00-30-59#p32748

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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:36 pm 
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klausesser wrote:
fma38 wrote:
mediavets wrote:
What's more I would like to see APT develop the ability to create 'tours' within a giga-pixel image. One way I could envisage this working would be for the user to create/define a series of 'snapshot' views (like snapshots in the Gigapan system) and then be able to sequence these on a time line with synched audio or user invoked narration - a sort of 'snapshot-slideshow' with synched audio but with user controls to override the automation which provided a guidede-tour of a gigapixel image. This could be one way to add that 'story telling' element to the gigapixel image.

I remember that someone posted a demo of such feature, but I can't find the link. This was exaclty what you suggest...

Edited: it was not made with APT...

Hi Fred!

Do you have a link? I´m not sure to understand what you mean.

best to you, Klaus

Klaus,

Check out the demo linked from this post - it is something like what I envisage:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p32748-2008-11-16-00-30-59#p32748

As you will see from that thread, it attracted a positive response back in 2008.

Alexandre seemed to think it would be worth developing a software tool to create such 'multimedia-panorama-presentations' back then so may be it could be realised in 2010 with an enhanced version of APT or a whole separate product?

I think such a tool could present a valuable way for gigapixel panographers to display their work using krpano, providing that 'story telling' element that people have mentioned as missing from current gigapixel panos.

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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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