Removing delays in Merlin/Papywizard head movement  

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RHKFilm
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Removing delays in Merlin/Papywizard head movement

by RHKFilm » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:28 pm

When the Merlin head moves to a new position, it can often take 30 seconds to move a short distance. With a 25% overlap standard, I find the accuracy to which the Merlin head is held is counterproductive. Is it possible to force the head to get "close enough" and report success back to papywizard? Is it possible to avoice using the finest steps in the Merlin head.
The delay I'm talking about occurs after the major motion of the head and before the stabilization delay. I find this achieving this level of accuracy adds HOURS to my gigapixel panoramas.
Thank you,
Robert

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by fma38 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:54 pm

30s for a short distance is not normal. Could you send the logs, and your config file?
Frédéric

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by claudevh » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Hello Robert,

Welcome on board, could-you please tel us what firmware version you have for your Merlin head ?

Just after the connection of Papywizard with the head, you should go to the Log file and 2, 3 lines before the end of the log, you will find the firmware number !
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by klausesser » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:33 pm

Could you please be a bit more precise?
Which lens, which distance?
On very close distance and/or a long lens a slow head-movement is quite normal.

Don´t forget please: Merlin is a very cheap device - and regarding that it´s very fine!

As a former cameraman i know the kind of heads you´re talking about very well: extremely precise, widely controllable, fast and sturdy . . and heavy. And MOLTO expensive too . . . :cool:

Today i tested a 105mm at about 1,5m distance shooting 90x90° . . . moving between positions and shooting took quite a while. Though i used Josef´s controller - which usually speeds up the Merlin remarkably with short lenses. But with long lenses changig from "move" to "go to" slows it down much.

But of course it might be the firmware . . .

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by bvogl » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:28 pm

As i observed a very similar problem (see http://www.autopano.net/forum/t5220-papywizard-v2-annoncement,feedback,bug-report ):
In my situation i am 99% sure that is was caused by the BT connection itself - read: by the signal quality.
I'd suggest trying to bring both devices together as close as possible with no abstacles in between. The open the connection and try again.

Best regards
Bernhard

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by claudevh » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:18 pm

It seem that Robert have the Firmware 03.06..... !!!!
On top of that ... Robert use a Merlin GoTo - hard-wired with Keyspan adapter !!! so theory for BT are false !!!

This is a "newest" firmware that the one we are using for the upgrade (02.06.81).... is that a good one or a bad one ???? I don't know !!!
Last edited by claudevh on Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by RHKFilm » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:35 pm

I think my firmware is actually 03.06, but I'm not at the head now to confirm.

I don't think it's a connecting issue because I can slew the head with the manual controls very precisely. I experiencethe delay regardless of lens focal length or number of shots. The delay is sometimes nearly imperceptible but often up to 15 seconds and everything in between.
I really think it is the reult of the Merlin going from fast movement to fine movement as the head is moving ever so slightly throughout that delay. Immediately following that is the stabilization delay of which I understand and like.
Thanks for your help eveyone!! Papywizard is excellent!!
-Robert

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by fma38 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:41 pm

Could you post the log showing the problem? I would like to see where the delay occurs... Before launching the shooting sequence, switch the log level to 'trace'.
Frédéric

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by RHKFilm » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:32 am

Hello,
I suspect I am experiencing the difference between "diect drive" and "alternate drive". Is there a way to force "alternate drive"?

A link to the logs is at the bottom (with good and bad results.. no camera connected so please ignore the EOS Utility load failure)

My Merlin hand controller reports the following version #s:
HC firmware 03.06
Database 03.26
HC Hardware 03.06
Motor controller 02.05.81

I have confirmed this issue on both XP and OSX so I believe it to be OS independent.

Below are my findings:
-----------------------------------
Here is the traceback log from Papywizard showing the problem:
2010-03-30 19:10:37,515::Shooting::INFO::Moving
2010-03-30 19:10:37,515::Main::DEBUG::ShootController.__onShootingSequence(): sequence=moving
2010-03-30 19:10:37,515::Shooting::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis.drive(): 'yawAxis' drive to 6.8
2010-03-30 19:10:37,546::Shooting::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis.drive(): 'pitchAxis' drive to 0.0
2010-03-30 19:10:37,750::Merlin-Orion_yawAxis::TRACE::MerlinOrionAxis._directDrive()

2010-03-30 19:10:56,655::Shooting::INFO::Stabilization
2010-03-30 19:10:56,655::Main::DEBUG::ShootController.__onShootingSequence(): sequence=stabilization
2010-03-30 19:10:57,155::Shooting::INFO::Shutter cycle
------------------------------------
Notice the 20 seconds for a direct drive. This was a small movement, and another time it was made in 3 seconds.


-----------------------------------
Here is an excerpt from the log of the head making the exact same movement under the exact same conditions and it does it much more quickly:
2010-03-30 19:17:39,640::Shooting::INFO::Moving
2010-03-30 19:17:39,640::Main::DEBUG::ShootController.__onShootingSequence(): sequence=moving
2010-03-30 19:17:39,640::Shooting::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis.drive(): 'yawAxis' drive to 6.8
2010-03-30 19:17:39,671::Shooting::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis.drive(): 'pitchAxis' drive to 0.0
2010-03-30 19:17:39,858::Merlin-Orion_yawAxis::TRACE::MerlinOrionAxis._alternateDrive()
2010-03-30 19:17:39,890::Merlin-Orion_yawAxis::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis._alternateDrive(): alternate speed move

2010-03-30 19:17:42,967::Merlin-Orion_yawAxis::DEBUG::MerlinOrionAxis._alternateDrive(): final move
2010-03-30 19:17:43,905::Shooting::INFO::Stabilization
-----------------------------------
Log:
http://pastebin.com/cUMAw4p2
Config file (should be vanilla):
http://pastebin.com/cDyZsdyq

Thanks so much!

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by fma38 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:33 am

The laternate drive flag is available in the plugin config dialog. But it should be enabled by default.

Could you try to make different moves: 15°, 10°, 5°, 2°, and see how long it takes for each one?

Also try to use the original controller, storing a position and try to go to it from the different distances above...
Frédéric

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by claudevh » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:05 am

Robert,

This time you mention :

Motor controller 02.05.81
The previous time you have said 03.06 ...

Please confirm witch one !!!
If this is the 02.05.81, this one SHOULD BE UPGRADED to 02.06.81 <====================

If this is 02.05.81 , this is the cause of your problem (85 % certain !!!)
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by fma38 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:16 am

03.06 is the hand controller firmware. The motor controller firmware version is 02.05.81... So, you definitly need to upgrade it.
Frédéric

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by claudevh » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:59 am

Robert,

For upgrading the firmware, you will find all needed stuff in my website: :)

http://www.papymerlin.com/merlin-firmware-upgrade/
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by RHKFilm » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:17 pm

Thank you claudevh! I did the update and here is the section from the papywizard log that should confirm:
2010-03-31 07:47:44,875::Main::TRACE::AbstractHardwarePlugin.init()
2010-03-31 07:47:44,967::Main::DEBUG::MerlinOrionHardware.init(): firmeware version=020681
2010-03-31 07:47:44,983::Main::DEBUG::MerlinOrionHardware.init(): encoder full circle=0xe62d3
2010-03-31 07:47:45,015::Main::DEBUG::MerlinOrionHardware.init(): sidereal rate=0x6f9

The movement is without the delay when I preset the degrees values at 0, 2, 5, 10, and 15.
http://pastebin.com/JJNHBnzg

The movement is still slow (even after firmware upgrade) when in mosaic mode. It uses the direct drive function and takes 23 seconds to move 6.1 degrees. Here is the corresponding log:
http://pastebin.com/mF9PKR4k

Thank you again!
-Robert

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by fma38 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:14 pm

Did you deactivate the alternate drive? It should be effective at 6.1° (the limit is 7°)...

Does it work fine in mosaic mode if you make moves like 4°? And 10°?
Frédéric

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by RHKFilm » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:44 am

Nope, I didn't change any settings from initial install and did not diable alternate drive

at 7.3 degrees it still has delay:
http://pastebin.com/WH1Zb6Lp

11 degrees went without delay:
http://pastebin.com/eK2PHhjP

No log for it but 4.4 degrees worked without a delay.

Thanks,
Robert

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by fma38 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:33 pm

Mmm, it seems that your firmware does not switch from fast speed to low speed at the same value than others...

Could you make a preset which move to these positions:

0, 0 # initial pos
2, 2 # 2° step
5, 5 # 3° step
9, 9 # 4° step
14, 14 # 5° step
20, 20 # 6° step
27, 27 # 7° step
35, 35 # 8° step
46, 46 # 9° step
56, 56 # 10° step

and send me the log?

Thanks.
Frédéric

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by RHKFilm » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 pm

I ran the test twice and the results were similar. Small and large movements are swift, but movements at
Up to 6 degree steps take about 2-3 using alternate drive
The 7 degree step took 19 seconds and used direct drive
The 8 degree took 11 seconds and used direct drive
9 + 10 took about 4 seconds and used direct drive

Here's the log (took 1:24 to finish the run):
http://pastebin.com/CTeJYTu7

I restarted Papywizard and upon running it again it only used direct drive for an unknown reason and took longer at most degree moves.
Here's a log of running it fresh again (took 2:15 to finish):
http://pastebin.com/skmM7LH2

Here's a log of a third run (took 2:28):
http://pastebin.com/wZjCjPpJ

I rebooted the Merlin head and restarted Papywizard and it started using alternate drive again and finished the run in 58 seconds (with slow movements at 7 and 8 degrees again):
http://pastebin.com/wbJ3pcR7

So it looks like (using this preset) once the Merlin starts using direct drive, it continues using it even for small movements until rebooted. It also appears that doing 7 or 8 degree moves triggers the unit to use direct drive.

Finally, here is a log for having it go 2, 5, 10 15 in yaw, back to home and then 2, 5, 10, 15 in pitch. It did this move properly without delay, using a combination of alternate and direct drive:
http://pastebin.com/baFGiG3e

Color me confused.
-RK

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by fma38 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:58 pm

I don't understand why it didn't use the alternate drive in the second shoot! I will investigate...

I made a mistake in the preset: the 9° step is in fact a 11° step!

Please, make another test with this new preset, *without* the alternate drive flag, and as moving, note when the head accelerate to the maximum speed, and when it does not (and post the log).

0, 0 # initial pos
2, 2 # 2° step
5, 5 # 3° step
9, 9 # 4° step
14, 14 # 5° step
20, 20 # 6° step
27, 27 # 7° step
35, 35 # 8° step
44, 44 # 9° step
54, 54 # 10° step
65, 65 # 11° step
Frédéric

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by RHKFilm » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:53 pm

A quick side note: I have noticed that pitch gets there first and waits for yaw to catch up. Though, when going slowly, pitch is going slowly enough to bother anyways.

--------

First, with alternate drive selected (as before):

First run of latest preset:
http://pastebin.com/kw375wTJ
It moves at high speed for EVERY value, but on 7 and 8 it stops short and has to make up the distant at slow speed. This the delay at its very essence.

Second run - without head or papywizard restart.
http://pastebin.com/h7q3muHj
Slower... No "fast motion" for degrees 1-6 (maybe for a split second on 6). Fast motion that stops short for the 7 and 8 degree degree steps. It also undershoots this step and 8 degrees. Accurate and fast motion for 9 and above this run.

3rd run - with head restart (no papywizard restart though):
http://pastebin.com/aecKSgPu
same as first run.

---------------------

Now with alternate drive deselected (head and papywizard start fresh):
http://pastebin.com/Zxw8PW91
It does slow motion until degree 6. For 6, 7, and 8 it does fast then slow (incurring the dreaded delay). I notice the pitch finished first but was still slow. 9,10 and 11 were good, though I should mention for step 11 that the yaw was off 1.2 degrees from it's intended 65 degrees.

Again, with direct drive deselected (no restart of head or papywizard):
http://pastebin.com/3a2GKbvA
Same

Again, restart head:
http://pastebin.com/y93zKjMf
Same

-------------------

Thanks again!
-Robert

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by fma38 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:19 pm

There is a strange thing regarding the alternate drive on teh second shoot... I will check that.
Frédéric

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by fma38 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:01 pm

Question: on the second move, are you reseting the home position with the central button? I just found a bug which may cause this problem...
Frédéric

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by RHKFilm » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:33 pm

Yes, I was hitting the home button to set a new home position. I ran it again without hitting the home button and it performed the way t did the first run. Glad you found the source of that bug :)

Any thoughts on the slow movement for 7 and 8 degree steps? It tries to do the fast movement but sorely undershoots it and then finished it with the slow movement. Sometimes it does this on 6 degree as well.

Thanks,
Robert

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by fma38 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:46 pm

Tyr to adjust the inertia angle...

But it also seems that your head does not switch from fast to slow at the same angle, neither moving the same way...
Frédéric

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by 120to120 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:51 pm

Accu für Merlin OK?????
Probleme gibt es auch, wenn Accu zu schwach!!

jozef
(*Merlin/Orion_BT - teleskop-austria.*); FTDI USB-TTL cable; Macbook (Intel) OS X10.5.6 / ext. Bluetooth Dongle_VIVANCO_B1002270209 / PW 2.1.20; Go-To / TA *Nokia N810 / PW 2.1.20 * Sony F717 / Sony R1 ; JJC SR-828; 15m Mast;


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