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Everything you need to motorize your head
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SpeedyPan
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by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:15 pm

mediavets wrote:How robust do you think the threaded holes will be in perspex?

If one plans to unscrew the Manfrotto rail often, it would be better to install thread inserts like this:

Image
Clauss Rodeon VR
Canon 7D

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by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:27 pm

klausesser wrote:
SpeedyPan wrote:No Problem, Paul.

It is made of 5 discs I cut from 4mm perspex. The four 5mm holes are for 5mm alloy sticks, which made it easy to glue the four discs together. The 2.5mm holes were drilled up to 3.3mm and got a M4 thread. The manfrotto rail is screwed on this threads.

I know... I could have used one 5mm disc and one 15mm disc, but 4mm perspex was all I had available :cool:

Best, Helmut

Helmut - that´s great!

I´d like to have that too . . :) - whatever the price is.
But tell me about the friction/clutch - that also sounds very fine. You adjust the friction by tightening or loosing the screws which fits your disks to the Merlin-disk? That´s great, man. It would mean to be easibly able to change the silicone-disc if it´s worn and to prevent it to get worn anyway by zeroing the camera by hand . . !

best, Klaus

Thanks, Klaus.

I adjust the friction by tightening the central female screw which holds my crown the same way it holds the original crown. The "clutch effect" is simply the same with the original crown.

If I need to replace the silicone disc, I would need to unscrew the four screws that hold the Manfrotto rail and then unscrew the central female screw and put of the crown. The silicone disc simply lies between my crown and the Merlin disc. But I think, it would never have to be replaced if you don't constantly zero your camera by hand ;)
Last edited by SpeedyPan on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:51 pm

SpeedyPan wrote:But I think, it would never have to be replaced if you don't constantly zero your camera by hand ;)

You have obviously seen Klaus in action then! :lol:
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:56 pm

:lol::lol::lol:
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by Paul » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:06 pm

thanks

one request more:
please add these pics to your entry in the user documentation
http://www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/Merlin-Orion-Papywizard_users_feedback

otherwise its get lost in the forum as time goes by
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by mediavets » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:16 pm

SpeedyPan wrote:Thank you, Andrew.

It works for me, but if I would have to make something that one could sell, I would design a crown that is adjustable. The "disc" solution could also be made of alloy. Some of these in different heights (maybe 2, 3 and 4mm) could be screwed together to the height one needs.

Best, Helmut

Helmut,

You have so many great ideas.

If you felt a desire to go into limited production for a replacement crown I'm sure there would be quite a few customers.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm

Paul wrote:thanks

one request more:
please add these pics to your entry in the user documentation
http://www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/Merlin-Orion-Papywizard_users_feedback

otherwise its get lost in the forum as time goes by

Another way could be to add them to this page:

[url]http://www.autopano.fr/wiki/action/view/Tête_astronomique_Multi-fonctions_Merlin_Adaptation_Mécanique[/url]

and make an english version...
Frédéric

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by bigwade » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:52 pm

klausesser wrote:Helmut - that´s great!
I´d like to have that too . . :) - whatever the price is.
best, Klaus

This is exactly what TA is making for me..............
The disc for the Manfrotto 357 system
I don't get it, now you want this disk, no matter what price, but no-one ordered the TA disk......:rolleyes:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p34032-2008-12-05-12-03-09#p34032

BTW Nice Work SpeedyPan !!
Last edited by bigwade on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:12 pm

mediavets wrote:
SpeedyPan wrote:But I think, it would never have to be replaced if you don't constantly zero your camera by hand ;)

You have obviously seen Klaus in action then! :lol:

:cool: Yes - i´m a very impatient guy . . an animal when i work . . :lol:
Only the sturdiest tools can survive being handled by me . . :P
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by klausesser » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:14 pm

bigwade wrote:
klausesser wrote:Helmut - that´s great!
I´d like to have that too . . :) - whatever the price is.
best, Klaus

This is exactly what TA is making for me..............
The disc for the Manfrotto 357 system
I don't get it, now you want this disk, no matter what price, but no-one ordered the TA disk......:rolleyes:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p34032-2008-12-05-12-03-09#p34032

BTW Nice Work SpeedyPan !!

Frank - i really didn´t realize it . . . . mea culpa . .
I was in some stress and didn´t read carefully enough.:/

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by mediavets » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:19 pm

bigwade wrote:
klausesser wrote:Helmut - that´s great!
I´d like to have that too . . :) - whatever the price is.
best, Klaus

This is exactly what TA is making for me..............
The disc for the Manfrotto 357 system
I don't get it, now you want this disk, no matter what price, but no-one ordered the TA disk......:rolleyes:
http://www.autopano.net/forum/p34032-2008-12-05-12-03-09#p34032

BTW Nice Work SpeedyPan !!

Frank,

IMO the TA disk offer was incomplete and incomprehensible.

It was not at all clear what one would get, nor how much it would cost including shipping, and it did not include the friction material and back then there was no way of paying except bank transfer.

I am not surprised that few leapt at the chance to sign up for one back then, we had far fewer users with some experience under their belts with Merlin/Papywizard back then.

Tommy's recent response on the forum shows that T-A are still happy to sit on their laurels (that's the most polite way I can put it!). They will just wait for someone to approach them with a detailed drawing before they will make anything - when they could have taken a close look at the Merlin head (which they sell) and come up with an innovative design for a crown replacement - but no, they seem unable to be that pro-active and entrepreneurial. I wonder what it took (from a customer, perhaps?) to provoke them into making the BT-TTL device.

OTOH Helmut came up with an excellent solution from scratch, on his own, in a few days.
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by bigwade » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:24 pm

klausesser wrote:Frank - i really didn´t realize it . . . . mea culpa . .
I was in some stress and didn´t read carefully enough.:/
best, Klaus

No Problem :)
When I get it (together with the second Merlin) I will report.
I had to measure the Manfrotto holes with a normal lineal so I don't know if the 357 fits or if I have to drill other M5 holes.
TA price isn't an issue I think.
But mail them with requests..
grtz!

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by bigwade » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:29 pm

mediavets wrote:IMO the TA disk offer was incomplete and incomprehensible.

I don't agree.
The simple question was, can you make a crown according to the APP drawing.
The answer was yes, incl. price.
Now that they have PayPal and very reasonable shipping costs I don't see the problem.

Ask Helmut if he can make 5-7 versions of the crown incl holes for 3-5 railsystems for 30-40 euro and small shipment costs.
I don't think he will do it for that amount of money.......

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by SpeedyPan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:58 pm

bigwade wrote:Ask Helmut if he can make 5-7 versions of the crown incl holes for 3-5 railsystems for 30-40 euro and small shipment costs.
I don't think he will do it for that amount of money.......

It wasn't my intension to build something I can sell. Actually I wouldn't like to sell it for many reasons. The main reason is, this crown works great for me but it is definitely imperfect. It is built for only one "A-Value" and if one would get a new camera he would have to get a new crown.

Another reason is, this is not my business. I did it because I wanted a working crown as quick as possible and because it was great fun to do this with the tools and materials I had available. I really learned a lot about glueing perspex, drilling holes in it and cutting threads.

It wasn't easy to me to build this crown, because I have physical limitations caused by an spinal cord injury. But exactly this handicap made me wanting a motorized head so much.

Nevertheless I love to share my ideas and experiences with this great forum, because I found so much invaluable information here.

If I ever would make another crown, I would make it for the guys here who enabled me to get a motorized pano head for less as what I paid for my old Manfrotto horizontal head. Frédéric, Andrew, Paul, Klaus and so many more: THANK YOU!

Regarding Teleskop Austria... I'm pretty sure they could show a little more passion. If they could manage to offer a bundle of Merlin + Bluetooth module + a good crown including a rail with a quick release system + maybe a ready to use configured Nokia 810... they could sell dozens units... 120to120 would be one of their first customers, i think ;)

Best, Helmut


PS I think Frédéric should get some € for every sold system...
Clauss Rodeon VR
Canon 7D

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by mediavets » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:21 pm

Helmut,

You are a great asset to our small international community of Merlin/Papywizard community.

You have revitalised the issue if crown replacement.

Maybe instead of making stuff you could propose and draw up a design for an adjustable crown along the lines you mentioned in an earlier post.

Then users could have some local machine shop make it in whatever material they chose.

Hey, who knows, maybe T-A might even get off their laurels and manufacture it?

Looking forward to seeing some of your panos shot with Merlin/Papywizard in the Gallery section of the forum.

Regards,
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by bigwade » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:22 pm

SpeedyPan wrote:It wasn't my intension to build something I can sell. Actually I wouldn't like to sell it for many reasons. The main reason is, this crown works great for me but it is definitely imperfect. It is built for only one "A-Value" and if one would get a new camera he would have to get a new crown.

Just kidding man....:) , but that's just my point.

SpeedyPan wrote:Regarding Teleskop Austria... I'm pretty sure they could show a little more passion. If they could manage to offer a bundle of Merlin + Bluetooth module + a good crown including a rail with a quick release system

So what "A" size crown...... my camera ? yours ? 120to120's ?
And what railsystem ? Arca ? Manfrotto ? NN ? selfmade ?
We "all" have our stuff allready, that's the point..

SpeedyPan wrote:+ maybe a ready to use configured Nokia 810... they could sell dozens units...

New 810's are going for over 300 euros here and it's nice as a Merlin remote but #### compared to an iPhone or other nice stuff according web-use and more.
If TA would sell used N800's, Flashed and PW installed, they have to give warranty on those devices.
Do you think they will do that ? or let me say, would you ?
About passion, yes you are maybe right :) but they made some steps already and good steps for new users.
Mind you this is not an iPix idiot proof project, is it ?

SpeedyPan wrote:120to120 would be one of their first customers, i think ;)

HaHa, you could be right !
grtz!

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by bigwade » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:37 pm

mediavets wrote:Maybe instead of making stuff you could propose and draw up a design for an adjustable crown along the lines you mentioned in an earlier post.

Then users could have some local machine shop make it in whatever material they chose.

Hey, who knows, maybe T-A might even get off their laurels and manufacture it?

Looking forward to seeing some of your panos shot with Merlin/Papywizard in the Gallery section of the forum.

Regards,

Hey Andrew, it isn't that complicated.
Make the slimmest version of the original drawing and offer 1/2/3/4 etc.mm extension rings.
The friction material is no problem as I mentioned again and again and Helmut stated it.
We can ask TA to make a prototype.
The choice about the railsystem is still open then.
But there must be some demand.
After their first offer, no-one ordered, not even with demands for own rail systems or other ideas.
Just me..
And that is a fact.
grtz!
Last edited by bigwade on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by SpeedyPan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:00 am

bigwade wrote:Hey Andrew, it isn't that complicated.
Make the slimmest version of the original drawing and offer 1/2/3/4 etc.mm extension rings.
The friction material is no problem as I mentioned again and again and Helmut stated it.
We can ask TA to make a prototype.
The choice about the railsystem is still open then.
But there must be some demand.
After their first offer, no-one ordered, not even with demands for own rail systems or other ideas.
Just me..
And that is a fact.
grtz!

I think no-one ordered because the product wasn't finished. I saw the TA offer, but I didn't want one because I was quite sure it wouldn't fit my needs... wrong size and wrong holes for the Manfrotto rail.

Yes, we all have our stuff allready, but I think very few of us have a railsystem left. So wouldn't it be nice to have an adjustable crown, a railsystem sitting on it (something like Paul's alloy profile) with an 1/4" screw to mount your favourite quick release system? If TA would have offered it this way, I would have known that this product makes my Merlin work for me... time to order! Hmm... anyway it would be great if they would offer a quick release system because we need a very slim one.

It's absolutely no rocket science to design a universal crown/rail-system which would fit for many cameras, but one needs to invest time and money in it to make a good product. Even my simple perspex crown needed two unusable prototypes before I had one that worked.

By the way... the holes for the Manfrotto rail have distances of 45mm and 28mm... I hope, that's what you measured ;)

Best, Helmut
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Canon 7D

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by mediavets » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:35 am

SpeedyPan wrote:Hmm... anyway it would be great if they would offer a quick release system because we need a very slim one.

Best, Helmut

Anything like this?:
http://www.nodalninja.com/qrs2_tutorial.html
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:37 am

SpeedyPan wrote:It's absolutely no rocket science to design a universal crown/rail-system which would fit for many cameras, but one needs to invest time and money in it to make a good product.
Best, Helmut

I agree and IMO that should be the goal - a universal system comprising crown and rails.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by bigwade » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:39 am

SpeedyPan wrote:I think no-one ordered because the product wasn't finished. I saw the TA offer, but I didn't want one because I was quite sure it wouldn't fit my needs... wrong size and wrong holes for the Manfrotto rail.

Wrong size ?
Help !! TA is working on mine
Yes I know about the Manfrotto holes but I asked it here without confirmation :(

SpeedyPan wrote:It's absolutely no rocket science to design a universal crown/rail-system which would fit for many cameras, but one needs to invest time and money in it to make a good product. Even my simple perspex crown needed two unusable prototypes before I had one that worked.

Again it's a matter of numbers, how many can you sell for a fair price, etc....

SpeedyPan wrote:By the way... the holes for the Manfrotto rail have distances of 45mm and 28mm... I hope, that's what you measured ;)

46/28......... !

Should it matter that much ?
grtz!

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by mediavets » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:44 am

bigwade wrote:
SpeedyPan wrote:It's absolutely no rocket science to design a universal crown/rail-system which would fit for many cameras, but one needs to invest time and money in it to make a good product. Even my simple perspex crown needed two unusable prototypes before I had one that worked.

Again it's a matter of numbers, how many can you sell for a fair price, etc....

If you have CNC machines then there is an initial cost to do the programming but thereafter it is easy to reprogram the machine to make one-offs on demand - at least that's my understanding of CNC, but I may be quite wrong.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by SpeedyPan » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:50 am

Wrong size because it is to thin for my needs.

46mm was what I measured and how I drilled my holes. Maybe it changed... I have these rail since six or seven years...

M5 screws would have been a little to big for my rail too... M4 was perfect.

In the worst case you will have to make the holes of the rail a little wider.
Clauss Rodeon VR
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by bigwade » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:51 am

mediavets wrote:
SpeedyPan wrote:Hmm... anyway it would be great if they would offer a quick release system because we need a very slim one.

Best, Helmut

Anything like this?:
http://www.nodalninja.com/qrs2_tutorial.html

I have this one, posted here somewhere, can't find it but it's not slim...

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by bigwade » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:56 am

mediavets wrote:
bigwade wrote:
SpeedyPan wrote:It's absolutely no rocket science to design a universal crown/rail-system which would fit for many cameras, but one needs to invest time and money in it to make a good product. Even my simple perspex crown needed two unusable prototypes before I had one that worked.

Again it's a matter of numbers, how many can you sell for a fair price, etc....

If you have CNC machines then there is an initial cost to do the programming but thereafter it is easy to reprogram the machine to make one-offs on demand - at least that's my understanding of CNC, but I may be quite wrong.

With CNC machines you get 360P prices, that's all.
and I don't think TA has a CNC machine :)

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