[papywizard v1] Annoncement, feedback, bug report  

Everything you need to motorize your head
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:26 pm

Paul wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Paul wrote:one more wish ...

is it possible to change the caption while shooting like this:

Shooting n(nn) Rn(nn) Cn(nn)

where n is actual number of pics and nn total number of pics, R=Row, C=Column

How/why do you feel that this would be a userul enhancement?

why:
on gigapixel panos with a small FOV it feels to me more easy to see a picnumber on which I can identify a certain pic.
whenever something happens that will force me to retake some pics, it is easier for me if I know the picnumber than to fiddle around on a "microgrid"

my biggest lens is 600mm (35mm equivalent)

Just so I understand - I have not yet ever shot a large msoiac with a very long focal length lens - if you had to reshoot a part of a mosiac you would make a note (on paper) at the time of the images affected so that you could then have a special look at those images when processing the pano?

Or have I misunderstood why you feel it would be valuable to see a 'picnumber'?
Andrew Stephens
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:07 pm

Isn't easier to make a new pano, by pointing on the specific region? APP is able to merge panos...

BTW, what do you think about a scrollview shooting area? Maybe with a zoom feature?
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by fma38 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:31 pm

The shooting area is now larger with the buttons ;)


Frédéric

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by odyssey » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:54 pm

Ok, reporting that I do no longer get the needing to use the 'ESC' key error!

I am not sure about the scroll area, seems counter-intuitive to seeing the whole progress picture. But I will reserve judgment as maybe its a great idea.

I really like that the D buttons work to scroll back and forth. Had the never ending list of ideas, but what about having the up and down buttons actually move up and down rows rather than the columns (I would still have the left and right map exactly as they do). It would be useful if you were doing the 'move the camera around after the full mosaic has been captured and then take photos of action' idea I have been pushing if you could move the camera around without needing to use the control pad. I have not tried it live with the Orion, it might be that I would want it to move the camera mount first, not tell it where I want it, might not know where I want it. Its kind of mixing apples with oranges on the control pad idea as if you are not using 'CR' cariage returns, the left and right switch directions on each row (which they should) so maybe this feature request would just confuse people (as its not left and right, its back and forth). Hmmm, I am rambling on.

Thanks

Jason
Last edited by odyssey on Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nikon D200, Merlin/Orion with Nokia 800 & Papywizard
Two Panasonic FZ50's mounted in Stereo 3D on some interesting Gigapan stuff
[url=http://www.3dpan.org]www.3dpan.org Three Dimensional Panoramas![/url]
[url=http://www.odysseyexpeditions.com]www.odysseyexpeditions.com Tropical Marine Biology Voyages[/url]

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:51 pm

The scroll area needs some work, so I won't implement it if you don't think it is really usefull; I also agree it will be confusing.

Here are some ideas for the future... First, I'm OK to bind left/right keys to col. change, and up/down to row change, but it will need some review in the design; at the moment, I don't expose the row/col matrix to the controller, so it is just able to rewind/forward. But I plan to do so. Once this is done, it will be easy to allow the user to select a rectangular portion of the matrix to shoot only that part of the pano.
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:10 pm

fma38 wrote:The scroll area needs some work, so I won't implement it if you don't think it is really usefull; I also agree it will be confusing.

I vote not to implement it, far too confusing for the user IMO.

fma38 wrote:Here are some ideas for the future... First, I'm OK to bind left/right keys to col. change, and up/down to row change, but it will need some review in the design; at the moment, I don't expose the row/col matrix to the controller, so it is just able to rewind/forward. But I plan to do so. Once this is done, it will be easy to allow the user to select a rectangular portion of the matrix to shoot only that part of the pano.

Interesting - I cannot at present envisage the user interaction but .......
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:17 pm

mediavets wrote:
fma38 wrote:The scroll area needs some work, so I won't implement it if you don't think it is really usefull; I also agree it will be confusing.

I vote not to implement it, far too confusing for the user IMO.

:)

fma38 wrote:Here are some ideas for the future... First, I'm OK to bind left/right keys to col. change, and up/down to row change, but it will need some review in the design; at the moment, I don't expose the row/col matrix to the controller, so it is just able to rewind/forward. But I plan to do so. Once this is done, it will be easy to allow the user to select a rectangular portion of the matrix to shoot only that part of the pano.

Interesting - I cannot at present envisage the user interaction but .......

It is like to do a crop in an image manipulation program: you just click and drag a rectangle; images in that rectangle will be selected for shooting. I find this very intuitive to reshoot a interesting portion of the pano (depending of the resolution, you will need to reshoot several images, but not the entire row/col).
Frédéric

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by mediavets » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:48 pm

fma38 wrote:
fma38 wrote:Here are some ideas for the future... First, I'm OK to bind left/right keys to col. change, and up/down to row change, but it will need some review in the design; at the moment, I don't expose the row/col matrix to the controller, so it is just able to rewind/forward. But I plan to do so. Once this is done, it will be easy to allow the user to select a rectangular portion of the matrix to shoot only that part of the pano.

Interesting - I cannot at present envisage the user interaction but .......

It is like to do a crop in an image manipulation program: you just click and drag a rectangle; images in that rectangle will be selected for shooting. I find this very intuitive to reshoot a interesting portion of the pano (depending of the resolution, you will need to reshoot several images, but not the entire row/col).

I understand the 'click-n-drag' to define rectangle method that one might use in image editor. Just not sure how you could/would implement that within the Papywizard Shooting window - when presumably Rewind/Forward would also be active at the same time?

Would you envisage this being used in a scenario where you first shoot the entire pano matrix and then Start again - ie, a separate Shoot usimbn the same matrix but just choosing to shoot a part of the matrix. Or is this a case where you would also allow definition of a reshoot sub-matrix after a Shoot had Finished which can't be done dircetly now?

Can you describe how it might be used and how it would appear to the user?

Perhaps I should just be patient and wait and see?

Do you later imagine processing two panos and merging them, or throwing all the images into one pano when stitching?
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:54 am

In pause mode, you will be able to either change the current position, and go on shooting (like it is possible now), or to select a specific zone and shoot only that part (it will then go back to Pause mode, to allow further selections, or to set the next shooting poition, and restart from here). I could maybe generalize, and select all images by default (when opening the shooting dialog), and let the user change that selection before shooting, to shoot only that part (moving rewind/forward will be limited to that part). I think both modes can be used (depending if the selection is made before the shooting starts or in Pause mode).

One or more panos (== xml data file) will be generated, depending if you terminate the current pano, and start a new one or stay in Pause mode to reshoot.
Frédéric

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:03 am

Thanks for the explanation - I think I almost understand it now. There will be be two 'shooting position edit modes' available once in Pause - the Rewind/Forward mode and a new Zone selection mode. How does the user choose or switch between these two modes?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:48 am

I would like it to be automatic, depending if you just click or if you start a click'n'drag action. If I can't do that, I'll add a little radio button.

About colors, I think I will implement several schemes, so you will be able to chose which one you prefer, depending of the light conditions. Could you please propose me the complete set(s) you would like to see? Here are the colors I need, and there current default values:

'background' = area color outside of any position (light grey #d0d0d0)
'axis' = axis color in spherical shooting area (medium red #ff8080)
'preview' = nshoot position color (medium grey #c0c0c0)
'skip' = cunshoot position color which won't be shot (dark grey #a0a0a0)
'ok' = shot position color without error (green #00ff00)
'ok-reshoot' = shot position color without error, which will be reshot (light green #c0ffc0)
'error' = shot position color with error (red #ff0000)
'error-reshoot' =shot position color with error, which will be reshot (light red #ffc0c0)
'border' = border color of selected positions positions - all by default (black #000000)
'border-next' = border color of the next position to shoot (white #ffffff)
'border-noselect' = border color of unselected positions - for future zone selection (???)
'head' = crosshair cursor color for the head position (blue #0000ff)

If possible, give me the colors as RVB triplets (in hexa), like #ff0000 for pure red.
Frédéric

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:05 am

Can you please provide the hex RGB values for the current colours so that I can compare with possible alternatives more precisely?

I've never seen this - 'error' = shot position color with error (red) - occur. In what circumstances can it occur?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:32 am

I edited my post with colors.

'error' can happen if you have set limits, or if any other (internal or not) problem occurs.
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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:54 pm

One question: is the feature to shoot forward really usefull? It takes some time to precompute all positions when the shoot dialog opens, and this can be avoided if we only allow to reshoot previously shot positions...

What do you think about?
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by mediavets » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:30 pm

Here's an on-line hex colour chart.
http://html-color-codes.com/
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:19 pm

I've uploaded the version 1.3.6 for windows. If someone could make some tests before the 1.4.0 release... Thanks.
Frédéric

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by odyssey » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:31 pm

I don't know when I would use shoot forward on a standard scene. What about an option in preferences that would allow it, but otherwise it can only go back. I don't like the time penalty so much so it would be a fair trade not to go forward. I can see where I would use it after completing a pano mosaic to go back in and fill in shots with action (which if you go to manual mode, you can use the papywizard to fire the camera and its pretty cool).

Jason
Nikon D200, Merlin/Orion with Nokia 800 & Papywizard
Two Panasonic FZ50's mounted in Stereo 3D on some interesting Gigapan stuff
[url=http://www.3dpan.org]www.3dpan.org Three Dimensional Panoramas![/url]
[url=http://www.odysseyexpeditions.com]www.odysseyexpeditions.com Tropical Marine Biology Voyages[/url]

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:36 pm

An intermediate solution is to start without all preview positions, so you can only rewind, but with a little button which allow you to generate all positions if needed. I could also generate all positions automatically if the number of pictures is less than a certain amount (which can be in user config).
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by mediavets » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:01 am

fma38 wrote:An intermediate solution is to start without all preview positions, so you can only rewind, but with a little button which allow you to generate all positions if needed. I could also generate all positions automatically if the number of pictures is less than a certain amount (which can be in user config).

That sounds like a good compromise as long as it doesn't start to clutter up the shooting UI.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:38 am

fma38 wrote:About colors, I think I will implement several schemes, so you will be able to chose which one you prefer, depending of the light conditions. Could you please propose me the complete set(s) you would like to see?

Would it be possible/viable to implement alternative colour schemes using an XML file a bit like that for custom presets?

That way you would not need to involve yourself with all that and you could just provide the current default colour scheme and users can create custom alternatives should they wish to.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:56 am

fma38 wrote:I've uploaded the version 1.3.6 for windows. If someone could make some tests before the 1.4.0 release... Thanks.

I've downloaded and am running some initial tests in simulation mode - I'll test with head on Tuesday. I'll do some tests with Window XP and Windows 2000.

How does the user change the speed of head movement in the Windows version?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:49 am

odyssey wrote:As long as I am pointing out the negatives, as much as I like the graphical interface, I cant get a setup having a LARGE number of tiles (which I plan to use with the 500mm lens) I plan on trying to stitch a 20 gigapixel image this winter once autopano giga is released. But Papywizard is croaking on large tile sets, and its all because of the graphical interface. Would it be possible to have an OPTION for a shooting interface like Paul is suggesting (showing picture number, column, row) but not have it set up and show the graphical interface. I think maybe then Papywizard would be fully functional for high tile set mosaic capture.

Thanks

Jason

Jason

Just done initial tests with Papywizard 1.3.6 for Windows.

I thought of your requirement and configured Papywizard with lens of focal length of 750mm and sensor crop of 1.5x. Which I think emulates your 500mm lens on a D200.

Running in simulation mode it has no problems handling an image array of 60x20 and an array of 100x30 very speedily.

Would this be enough for your planned 20 gigapixel pano?

So it looks as if the problems you had with the N800 and large tile sets are due to the limited CPU/RAM on that hardware, rather than the graphical interface as such, perhaps?

Of course the upcoming Mobile Internet devices (aka MID) based on new processors from Intel should have plenty of horsepower so maybe that will be the ultimate handheld solution for you?

Meantime perhaps one of the smaller Intel-based laptops, like the Asus EEPC range might be a suitable host platform?
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:50 am

Just for fun I tried to install and run Papywizard 1.3.6 on Windows ME.

When I try to run it it fails with an error message referring me to the log file shown below.
Code: Select all
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "main.py", line 59, in <module>
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "gtk\__init__.pyo", line 38, in <module>
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "gobject\__init__.pyo", line 30, in <module>
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 98, in load_module
ImportError: MemoryLoadLibrary failed loading gobject\_gobject.pyd
Last edited by mediavets on Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by BeeZed » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:54 am

I played with 1.3.6 today on my 770. The only consistent crash came when I selected "file" from the menu. (I am not using a file for settings yet, and I assume this is the issue.) Papywizard closes completely in this case. Crashed on two other occasions, though I am not sure why. Once might have been the 770, as I was setting up the camera and came back to find it was rebooting!

I love the FOV setting feature. It is so much easier. I was wishing for an old style monochrome LCD display, as in bright sun it is very difficult to see anything.

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by fma38 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:44 am

mediavets wrote:Would it be possible/viable to implement alternative colour schemes using an XML file a bit like that for custom presets?

That way you would not need to involve yourself with all that and you could just provide the current default colour scheme and users can create custom alternatives should they wish to.

I prefer to hard-code colors, and let the user choose the theme; I can add as many themes as you want. During experimental phase, you will be able to modify the config file to change colors - as simple as editing a xml file.
Frédéric

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