[papywizard] Usefull Presets  

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[papywizard] Usefull Presets

by fma38 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:46 pm

Ok, let's start a new thread to speak about usefull preset I can add as default:

I already have these:

4@0 + Z + N
3@-15 + Z
6@30 + 6@-15 + N
3 + 6 + 12 + 6 + 3 (28mm)

But I don't know what the first 3 presets are for! Any idea? The last one is for my 17-40@17 on Canon 20D (x1.6)

GURL, I also would like to put preset for the fisheye Tokina 10-17, on Canon (x1.6) and Nikon (x1.5), @10mm and 17mm. Do you know what positions should I use?

Last, what is the preset for Klaus 20mm on Canon (x1.6)? It seems to be 4+8+15+8+4, but I don't have positions...
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by mediavets » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:53 pm

fma38 wrote:Ok, let's start a new thread to speak about usefull preset I can add as default:

I already have these:

4@0 + Z + N
3@-15 + Z
6@30 + 6@-15 + N
3 + 6 + 12 + 6 + 3 (28mm)

But I don't know what the first 3 presets are for! Any idea? The last one is for my 17-40@17 on Canon 20D (x1.6)

GURL, I also would like to put preset for the fisheye Tokina 10-17, on Canon (x1.6) and Nikon (x1.5), @10mm and 17mm. Do you know what positions should I use?

Last, what is the preset for Klaus 20mm on Canon (x1.6)? It seems to be 4+8+15+8+4, but I don't have positions...

4@0 + Z + N would work for Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE on either Nikon or Canon cropped sensor bodies to give 360x180 coverage.

But when I use my Sigma 8mm f3.5 on Nikon D40 I would not do it like that - I would shoot 4-around at +5 degrees, and a 'zenith' at about +65 degrees, the latter of which I might or might not include in the stitch.

I think I'd probably use my NN5 - rather than the Merlin - for sphericals using FE lenses anyway.

Shooting techniques for sphericals tend to be a matter of 'personal' choice/preference, there's often more than one way to do it.

That's why the pano-FOV type preset for mosaics makes more sense for default presets IMO; but we'll have to wait for that.
Last edited by mediavets on Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:02 pm

hi frederic! (i'm writing on the nokia . . . :cool: )

i tried to find the positions using my Manfrotto click-head. But that seems to be not
precise enough.
horizontal angles and numbers are easy to tfind . . . but then it becomes very dificult finding the relation of angles and numbers of shots.
maybe there is some formula!? I bet i missed it . . .

be back in the late aftternoon, klaus
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by fma38 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:31 pm

Ask GURL for its APP project which allow to simulate any mosaic full-spherical pano :

http://www.autopano.net/forum/p31194-2008-10-23-12-47-04#p31194
Frédéric

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by fma38 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:46 pm

Ok, here is a xsl stylesheet to transform a data xml file generated by Papywizard (from mosaic mode, for example), into a preset xml file you can import...

Note how simple it is to transform xml :cool:

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<!--
    This stylesheet can transform a data xml file generated by Papywizard
    into a preset xml file which can be loaded in Papywizard.
-->

<xsl:stylesheet version="1.0" xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform">
    <xsl:output method="xml" version="1.0" indent="yes"/>
    <xsl:param name="name" />
    <xsl:param name="tooltip" />

    <!-- Global template -->
    <xsl:template match="/">
        <papywizard>
            <preset name="{$name}">
                <tooltip>
                    <xsl:value-of select="$tooltip" />
                </tooltip>
                <shoot>
                    <xsl:apply-templates select="//position" />
                </shoot>
            </preset>
        </papywizard>
    </xsl:template>

    <!-- Template for each input position -->
    <xsl:template match="position">
        <pict yaw="{@yaw}" pitch="{@pitch}" />
    </xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>

To use the stylesheet, you need a xslt processor. Under linux, you can do:

$ xsltproc --stringparam name <name> --stringparam tooltip <tooltip> --output presets.xml papywizard.xsl papywizard.xml

where <name> is the preset name, <tooltip> the info of that preset, papywizard.xsl is the stylesheet xml file, papywizard.xml the xml data file, and presets.xml the generated preset xml file. You can use other names...

Don't know how to do that under Windows, but I'm looking for a simple solution which can work in a simple web navigator (most of them knows how to do xsl transformations), in local.
Last edited by fma38 on Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by fma38 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:22 pm

Frédéric

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by mediavets » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:59 pm


Her's another:
http://xslt-processor.awgar-stone-limited.downloadsoftware4free.com/

This one has very simple GUI rather than being a command line tool.

It doesn't take parameters but seems to work just fine.

You have edit the output file to add the 'preset name' and 'tooltip' text but that is simple enough to do with amny text editor, such as Notepad or Wordpad.


Last edited by mediavets on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:34 pm

using the preset: 3+6+12+6+3(28mm) which means 17mm@1,6 gives this result:
(i shot with a 17-85mm Canon lens @17mm.


Last edited by klausesser on Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:28 pm

Same preset again ( 3+6+12+6+3(28mm) which means 17mm@1,6)

Camera not moved in between - just started "shoot" again.


Last edited by klausesser on Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:43 pm

setting 3+6+12+6+3(30mm)
20mm on APS-C (1,5) works ok on 20D@17mm (1,6crop)

But i have some minor mismatches - tested it right now again. Detecting works ok - but optimizing leads to a lot of red squares and can´t be corrected . . tried all ricks.
Will shoot a new one tomorrow and post it here.

I guess the mismatches come from the lens-distortions the 17-85 produces at 17mm.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:41 pm

Frederic

I have been thinking about proposed future feature allowing manual entry of pano FOV for shooting mosiac panos.

The way I would like it to work is this:

1. Move head to point at location you wish to be 0/0 in finished pano and select Home/ Centre button to set.

2. Enter values for pano FOV.

3. Shoot.

I want the resulting pano to have the centre point I set in step 1.

Is this how you envisaged it working?
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:18 pm

Yes, I planned to compute positions symetrical from the current position (you don't even need to set the home position).
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by fma38 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:20 pm

Klaus, even if you launch detection on the same set of images, you won't get exactly the same result.
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:53 pm

fma38 wrote:Yes, I planned to compute positions symetrical from the current position (you don't even need to set the home position).

That's perfect.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:49 pm

I finally made a web interface to convert output file to preset file:

http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

Comments are welcome.
Frédéric

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by klausesser » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:47 pm

fma38 wrote:I finally made a web interface to convert output file to preset file:

http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

Comments are welcome.

Hii Frédéric!

I´m on the road untill Tuesday. Will have some sporadic looks into the thread.
Looked at your above link: how to handle the items? I don´t understand French
exactly enough.

"Fichier de données :"

Which file do you mean?

"Nom:"

Which one? A new one? The name of the file above?

"Tooltips"

Which tooltips?

Do you mean to open a given preset, type in a new name . . but what does "tooltips" mean precisely?

best, Klaus
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by mediavets » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:12 pm

fma38 wrote:I finally made a web interface to convert output file to preset file:

http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

Comments are welcome.

Excellent, thanks - it works well - could we have English sub-titles? :)
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:15 pm

klausesser wrote:
fma38 wrote:I finally made a web interface to convert output file to preset file:

http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

Comments are welcome.

Hii Frédéric!

I´m on the road untill Tuesday. Will have some sporadic looks into the thread.
Looked at your above link: how to handle the items? I don´t understand French
exactly enough.

"Fichier de données :"

Which file do you mean?

"Nom:"

Which one? A new one? The name of the file above?

"Tooltips"

Which tooltips?

Do you mean to open a given preset, type in a new name . . but what does "tooltips" mean precisely?

best, Klaus

Klaus,

"Fichier de données :" - is the data file generated when shooting from which you wish to generate a preset file.

"Nom" - is the name you wish to give to the preset file.

"Tooltips" - is the text you wish to appear when you click on the light bulb icon next to the drop down list of presets.
Last edited by mediavets on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:06 pm

Thanks Andrew ;)

Sorry, Klaus, as my web site is in french, I wrote the page in french. If it works fine, I will try to integrate it to the project page, in english.
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by mediavets » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:00 pm

I would like to discuss location of custom presets file.

http://74.125.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=fr|en&u=http://trac.gbiloba.org/papywizard/wiki/UserGuide&usg=ALkJrhg_vBqtS7xW-xrfICCw8dCmDp-tcg#Custompresets

In the latest release of Paywizard we now have the ability chose/configure the location of the data directory to which output data files are written. This makes it very much easier to access these data files. I have chosen to have them written to removable storage on my Nokia 770 which means I can then access them very easily from my PC when the Tablet is connected via USB.

If we were similarly able to choose/configure the location from which a custom preset file was read then Nokia tablet user could use the standard File Manager to copy files from the Removable storage rather than having to install an additional File manager program which can access the Maemo file system; they could even leave the custom preset file on a Removable storage card.
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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by mediavets » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:25 pm

Further thoughts and ideas about custom presets.

Custom presets are a very powerful and useful feature of Papywizard.

As things stand we have two Modes for shooting - Mosaic and Preset. The Preset mode offers users the ability to chose presets and the Mosiac mode does not offer presets.

As described in the Papywizard User Guide:
http://74.125.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=fr|en&u=http://trac.gbiloba.org/papywizard/wiki/UserGuide&usg=ALkJrhg_vBqtS7xW-xrfICCw8dCmDp-tcg#Custompresets
"Papywizard now has 2 modes: Mosaic mode, and Preset mode. The first one is mainly used for partial panos, and is especially designed for hi-res panos, using a large tele-lens. The second one is designed for full-spherical panos, using a wide-lens or a fisheye. The second one is designed for full-spherical panos, using a wide-or a fisheye lens."

These two modes have different graphic displays to indicate progress during shooting. The Mosiac mode display is designed to display mosaic shhoots and the Preset mode display is desgined to displaky spherical shoots.

Currently custom presets are intended to be used for spherical panos.

It is now very easy to creat a preset for a mosaic pano from a mosaic 'shoot' (can be in simulation mode) data file using an XSLT program or the new on-line translator:
http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

However if these mosaic presets are then used for pano shoot in Preset mode the graphic display of shooting progress used is that designed for spherical panos and this can be confusing for the user as many shots (any that have negative values for yaw) typically will be taken but will not appear in this display.

It is agreed that a later release of Papywizard will allow manual entry of pano FOV values in Mosiac mode, in addition to the current method of defining the pano limits using the Move arrows. But there are at present no plans to offer selection of presets in the Mosaic mode of shooting.

I would like to propose that both Mosaic and Preset modes of shooting should offer 'relevant' presets.

To this end I offer this proposal:

1. That Preset mode be renamed Spherical mode - which makes it clear what this mode is intended for.

2. That instead of one default preset and one custom preset file we have at least two of each - in the first instance a default preset_mosaic file and a default preset_spherical file, likewise a custom preset_mosaic file and a custom preset_spherical file would be permitted.

3. In each of the shooting Modes - Mosaic and Spherical (was Preset) only the relevant presets would be offered to the user, read from the appropriate default+custom preset files. This would ensure that the graphical shooting progress displays used were appropriate to the preset type (mosaic or spherical) and displayed progress of the shoot correctly.

4. Consideration could be given to allowing multiple custom preset files named - preset_mosaic_<whatever>.xml and preset_spherical_<whatever>.xml - all would be read (at start up?) and all presets added to the appropriate default presets. This would make it easier for users who would not then have to edit the current single preset.xml file (or the dual custom preset files concept proposed above) to add new custom presets, instead they could use the preset files generated for example from the data file translator directly.

I think these ideas for development are consistent with the current design approach and would improve and enhance useability. They would also make it easier to develop and manage the proposed on-line 'library' of presets from which users could choose a subset for their particular camera/lens combination for various styles of shooting panos.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:16 pm

fma38 wrote:Thanks Andrew ;)

Sorry, Klaus, as my web site is in french, I wrote the page in french. If it works fine, I will try to integrate it to the project page, in english.

Hey Frédéric!

No reason to apologize, man!! It´s on me to regain a bit French that i had in school for seven years . . :rolleyes: - but that´s so long ago . . :cool:

best, Klaus
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by mediavets » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:20 pm

mediavets wrote:
fma38 wrote:I finally made a web interface to convert output file to preset file:

http://www.gbiloba.org/papywizard.psp

Comments are welcome.

Excellent, thanks - it works well - could we have English sub-titles? :)

Would it be possible also to add a 'Save/Save as' button to allow user to download and save the generated preset file (preferably with option of choosing location and file name) to his/her local file system?

When saving the progam could propose a file name prefix of preset_mosaic_ or preset_spherical_ as per my earlier ideas.
Last edited by mediavets on Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by fma38 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Andrew, I answered on the other thread; this one is to discuss of preset content, not papywizard features ;)
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by klausesser » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:47 pm

Hi!

I really don´t know . . here two examples of using the 28mm preset (17mm@1,6) using a 17-85mm Canon-lens on the 20D.

Either the head is too unprecise, or there is too small overlap (don´t know where to look for it), or the lens-distortion is too heavy. I have no idea. I lined-up the camera perfectly, levelled the head, set it to "o" (home) and shot.

To straighten the lens-distortion first and stitch afterwards is very uncomfortable - so i will abandon the 17-85mm for panos and will stick to the Nikon 20mm@1,6 with spheres. Even without Exifs and so on.

best, Klaus

P.S.: the tooltips say: 3-6-12-6-3 - but i can´t see 12 in a row . . . i see 3, i see 6 and i see 2x6 in 2 rows.
There´s no row with 12 - as the tooltips suggest. Am i wrong interpreting?

P.S.2: the log is absolutely unreadable - it´s darkblue letters on a black background . .

P.S.2: cancelling "import preset file" fail - neither "Abbrechen" nor "ok" work. Have to kill the app via the main-window.




Last edited by klausesser on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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