Need advice mounting camera on L bracket  

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yoshiharra
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Need advice mounting camera on L bracket

by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Hi every one

I recently bought a Merlin mount and setup with Nokia N810. Planning to shoot Gigapixel panorama with Canon T3i (600D) with EF 100-400mm zoom. As per FAQ I am trying to mount my camera in horizontal orientation. Problem is, the L bracket I have, does not allow me to attach the camera to the vertical axis of the Merlin head, see the attached photos.

Any suggestion/help is deeply appreciated.

Thanks




Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:25 pm

With large heavy lens like that it's more important to mount the camera/lens close to the centre of mass than at the NPP, especially as when shooting with such a long lens I imagine you are shooting partial panos of landscapes with nothing too close to the camera?

If it helps you could mount the camera the other way round is that gets it closer over the centre of rotation on the yaw axis and configure Papywizard accordingly.

If you still want to try and mount the camera/lens in portrait orientation then either buy or make a straight rail or consider separating the two parts of the L-bracket and using a other camera or lens mount attachment screw.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by leifs » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:57 pm

I'm also shooting panos with the Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L. Very fine lens :-)
For partial panos the small offset is of no importance at all. I shoot the panos with the camera in the vertical, that's no problem for APG.
You will meet challenges bigger than this.

leifs
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
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yoshiharra
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by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:06 pm

Hi Andrew

Thanks for your prompt response. Just to clarify, I am doing partial panorama (landscape)for printing and yes it is mounted in the center of mass, no problem there. I am trying to reduce control point distance, I do understand it does not need to be at NPP.

I think I have seen some pictures of the L bracket that has a smaller horizontal arm, that has mounting screw move past the center axis (yaw). Any idea what make/model that L bracket is?

Thanks
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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yoshiharra
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by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:12 pm

Hi leifs

Thanks for the assurance, yes I love the lens. Since you are using same lens, any advice based on your experience will be valuable. :)
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by Tipjip » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:12 pm

What about turning the camera the other way round? The Canon 600D doesn't appear to have a symmetrical body, so mounting the camera facing in the opposite direction should get you a little closer to the NP, I think.

Regards,

Christian

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by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:15 pm

Tipjip, thanks. I will try that!:D
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:36 pm

yoshiharra wrote:Tipjip, thanks. I will try that!:D

I think I already proposed mounting the camera/lens the other way round

http://www.kolor.com/forum/p101687-today-21-25-27#p101687

You will have to configure Papywizard accordingly:


Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:59 pm

Andrew, just tried that. The tripod collar causes the similar off-set from the yaw axis. :(
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:09 pm

yoshiharra wrote:Andrew, just tried that. The tripod collar causes the similar off-set from the yaw axis. :(

If you want to be radical then hack off the camera screw, separate the arms of the L-bracket and use an alternative camera screw.

I use one arm of the L-bracket with a camera screw comprising a bolt, a wing nut and a washer to mount the camera in a portrait orientation.


Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by leifs » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Suggestion:
use the Novoflex QPL 1 (or similar) to put the camera vertical and close to the NPP.
http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/camera-support-systems/quick-release-systems/wechselplatten-qsystem/

There is no reason for shooting in the horisontal, is there ?

leifs
Olympus OM-D E-M1, Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye, Leica 25mm f1.4, Olympus 75mm f1.8, Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L
Seitz VRdrive2
Intel i7 980X, 48GB RAM, Win7 64bit, SSD RAIDs

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by yoshiharra » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:30 pm

@Andrew, I will try not to make any permeant alteration till I have no other choice. :)

@ leifs, Vertical/Horizontal orientation is not the issue, just trying to get as close as possible to yaw axis, that's all. Looking into Novoflex as you suggested. The way I look at it is, since I have invested so much time and money; why not try to do the best I can to align the lens? As Andrew suggested, I might even modify the hardware. I am just curious, how others in this forum has solved similar problem.
Last edited by yoshiharra on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by mediavets » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:47 pm

yoshiharra wrote:@ leifs, Vertical/Horizontal orientation is not the issue, just trying to get as close as possible to yaw axis, that's all. Looking into Novoflex as you suggested. The way I look at it is, since I have invested so much time and money; why not try to do the best I can to align the lens? As Andrew suggested, I might even modify the hardware. I am just curious, how others in this forum has solved similar problem.

You will find brief descriptions and some images of different approaches here:
http://www.autopano.net/wiki-en/action/view/Merlin-Orion-Papywizard_users_feedback

But as we have pointed out when shooting partial panos of landscapes with long focal length lenses parallax is not an issue so it's not important to position the camera/lens at the NPP.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by yoshiharra » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:13 am

mediavets wrote:If you want to be radical then hack off the camera screw, separate the arms of the L-bracket and use an alternative camera screw.

I use one arm of the L-bracket with a camera screw comprising a bolt, a wing nut and a washer to mount the camera in a portrait orientation.

Andrew, thanks for posting the picture of your horizontal arm of your L bracket. The camera screw is not my problem, when I am mounting my camera horizontally. It is the length (larger) of my horizontal arm (or short channel for the camera screw), that is off-setting my camera from yaw axis (see below). If you compare my second picture of my first post and compare that with these pictures, it will be clear what I mean.

I am not trying to place the lens at NPP, but simply trying to place the lens axis closest to laser cross-hair (2nd. photo of my first post).

Where can I find a short arm L bracket like yours? :/




Last edited by yoshiharra on Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Canon EOS T3i, EF 100-400mm, Tokina 100mm, Sigma 15mm, Samyang 8mm, Nodal Ninja 5L & R10, Merlin - Papywizard on Nokia N810

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by lumelix » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:03 pm

Hi all
How to mount a Nikon D4 or D800 with battery grip (for longer operation) exactly in the NPP on the Merlin when shooting a 360º VR with a Fisheye ?
In technical specification, they indicate only 30mm space between bracket and vertical axis.
And in the compatibility list, all Nikon PRO DSLR are listet.

But there are virtually no DSLR fullframe lenses with only 60 mm diameter !
And this shown modification of the crown may not be normal operating procedures ?
Regards
Martin

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by mediavets » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:39 pm

lumelix wrote:Hi all
How to mount a Nikon D4 or D800 with battery grip (for longer operation) exactly in the NPP on the Merlin when shooting a 360º VR with a Fisheye ?
In technical specification, they indicate only 30mm space between bracket and vertical axis.

It is 40mm with a straight rail on my Merlin.

Beyond that you have to start modifying the rail and/or the dovetail clamp. and even then there's limit to what can be achieved.

I'm not sure you could mount a D4 or D800 with or even without a battery grip at the NPP with a fisheye lens on the Merlin/Panogear.

You need to look instead at the upcoming T&C Panoneed or the Seitz VRDrive2 to easily mount a D4 or D800 at the NPP.

Why would you need a battery grip when shooting spherical panos with a fisheye lens?

Battery grips are not recommended when using any type of pano head.

AND finally ...why would you want/ need to use a robotic pano head to shoot a spherical pano using a fisheye lens? It would be faster and more convenient to use a manual pano head.

And in the compatibility list, all Nikon PRO DSLR are listed.

I feel that the term 'compatibility' is possibly misleading here. By 'compatible' I think they mean that it's possible to trigger the camera shutter with a cable between the Panogear mount Snap connector and the camera.

But there are virtually no DSLR fullframe lenses with only 60 mm diameter !
And this shown modification of the crown may not be normal operating procedures ?

True.

............

Most people use robotic pano heads to shoot hi-res partial panos of relatively distant scenes using longer focal length lenses where the number of images required means that there is a real advantage in using a robotic pano head over a manual pano head. There is typically no advantage in using a robotic pano head to shoot spherical panos using fisheye lenses unless you are shooting from a tall mast or a pole.

When shooting hi-res partial panos of relatively distant scenes using longer focal length lenses it's usually not necessary to attempt to mount the camera/lens at the NPP, because there is nothing in the scne very close to the camera.

In fact when using heavy cameras and long lenses with robotic pano heads it's usually more important to mount the camera/lens close to the centre of mass than to attempt to mount it at the NPP. In which case youj would mount the camera./.lens in landscape orientation on the L-bracket plus straight rail with the camera body behind axis of rotation of the vertical arm of the Panogear mount.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by lumelix » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:41 am

Hi Mediavets
Thanks for your informations.
I agree, for spherical Fisheye-Panos, manual operation is easy and no problem.
But using a robotic head, I can better explain the costs of my work ;)

I shot panos with 1440 images manualy on an ARCA-head - but it's a pain!
So I'm looking for a not to expensive robotic head, that can do every type of panos, inclusive the 360º VR.

The D800 with battery grip take 5 images/s instead of 4 images without the grip. For HDR bracketing, this is a small advantage.
I read all this modifications of the dovetail clamp/crown, but could not find what's the maximum space, which can be achieved this way.
I wonder that no one try to move the vertical axis outside to enlarge the space. Presumably it is not possible.
Regards
Martin

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by mediavets » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:04 am

lumelix wrote:Hi Mediavets
Thanks for your informations.
I agree, for spherical Fisheye-Panos, manual operation is easy and no problem.
But using a robotic head, I can better explain the costs of my work ;)

I shot panos with 1440 images manualy on an ARCA-head - but it's a pain!
So I'm looking for a not to expensive robotic head, that can do every type of panos, inclusive the 360º VR.

The D800 with battery grip take 5 images/s instead of 4 images without the grip. For HDR bracketing, this is a small advantage.
I read all this modifications of the dovetail clamp/crown, but could not find what's the maximum space, which can be achieved this way.
I wonder that no one try to move the vertical axis outside to enlarge the space. Presumably it is not possible.

I think that the least expensive all-round robotic panohead that could handle your equipment for all types of pano is the upcoming Panoneed from T&C.

I'm sure it would impress your clients!

See: http://www.kolor.com/forum/t14256-now-finally
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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