Image-stitching and virtual tour solutions My account Updates
It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:24 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:20 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
I know you must get tired of these new user posts, but I have read through the forums and am stuck..

Camera is a Canon T2i, lens is a Sigma 15mm fisheye

I am using Papywizard for now (I also have a TC which I would like to get working eventually, but Papywizard seems simpler to start with)
My first attempts produced a jumbled mess.
I found this site in one of the posts:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/sigma/
This indicates that I need 8 @ -30 + 8 @ +30 + Z

I created a presets file per the instructions (in Notepad) but an import attempt yields this error:
Can't import preset file
not well-formed (invalid token): line 6, column 25
Code is as follows:
---snip----
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<papywizard>
<preset name="8@-30 + 8@30 + Z">
<tooltip>
Sigma 15mm on APS-C(x1.6)
8 picts @ +30°
8 picts @ -30°
Z
</tooltip>
<shoot>
<pict yaw="0.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="45.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="90.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="135.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="180.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="225.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="270.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="315.0" pitch="-30.0"/>
<pict yaw="0.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="45.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="90.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="135.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="180.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="225.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="270.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="315.0" pitch="30.0"/>
<pict yaw="0.0" pitch="90.0"/>
</shoot>
</preset>
</papywizard>
----snip----
Two more questions. Nodal settings are a bit of a mystery to me. Also is using autofocus completely forbidden? The camera only focuses and won't take a picture unless it is set to manual focus (I presume the answer to this is yes but may as well ask).

Thanks much in advance!

Seth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Welcome to the forum...
sbradley02 wrote:
I know you must get tired of these new user posts, but I have read through the forums and am stuck..

Camera is a Canon T2i, lens is a Sigma 15mm fisheye

I am using Papywizard for now (I also have a TC which I would like to get working eventually, but Papywizard seems simpler to start with)
My first attempts produced a jumbled mess.
I found this site in one of the posts:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/sigma/
This indicates that I need 8 @ -30 + 8 @ +30 + Z

I created a presets file per the instructions (in Notepad) but an import attempt yields this error:
Can't import preset file
not well-formed (invalid token): line 6, column 25

Your preset works fine for me when saved in Notepad using UTF-8 encoding option - see screenshot.

Quote:
Two more questions. Nodal settings are a bit of a mystery to me.

In what way is the concept of No Parallax Point (nodal setting) a mystery?

Quote:
Also is using autofocus completely forbidden? The camera only focuses and won't take a picture unless it is set to manual focus (I presume the answer to this is yes but may as well ask).

One would normally choose to use manual focus when shooting panos especially with a fisheye lens that offers great depth of field.

However autofocus would be possible with the correctly wired cable.
.......

An obervation: the Sigma 15mm fisheye lens is a strange choice for use on a cropped sensor body, like the Canon T2i. One would normally choose a 15mm fisheye for a fullframe sensor body.



_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:19 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
Quote:
Welcome to the forum...

Thanks

Quote:
Your preset works fine for me when saved in Notepad using UTF-8 encoding option - see screenshot.

Dumb error in my part. Didn't save as UTF-8, now it works.
Quote:
In what way is the concept of No Parallax Point (nodal setting) a mystery?

How is it calculated? I see 50mm given as an example but is this accurate for all lens/camera combinations? I am also uncertain about how to measure it. Sorry for the newbie question, but the manual doesn't cover this in much detail.

Quote:
One would normally choose to use manual focus when shooting panos especially with a fisheye lens that offers great depth of field.

However autofocus would be possible with the correctly wired cable.

Thanks I will continue setting up with manual and if I need auto later I saw some references on cable construction.
.......
Quote:
An obervation: the Sigma 15mm fisheye lens is a strange choice for use on a cropped sensor body, like the Canon T2i. One would normally choose a 15mm fisheye for a fullframe sensor body.

15mm on a cropped sensor body gives me an effective FL of ~ 23mm. I am primarily doing interior panos with highly variable lighting and a flash is strongly indicated. Even the 600EX-RT I am using only covers down to 20mm. The Canon 14mm rectilinear would be a bit better choice with an effectrive FL of 22.4 but it is very costly. A zoom would let me go right down to 20mm but at the risk of zoom shift. I may try other lenses later but this seemed like a reasonable initial choice.

Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:27 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
15mm on a cropped sensor body gives me an effective FL of ~ 23mm. I am primarily doing interior panos with highly variable lighting and a flash is strongly indicated. Even the 600EX-RT I am using only covers down to 20mm. The Canon 14mm rectilinear would be a bit better choice with an effectrive FL of 22.4 but it is very costly. A zoom would let me go right down to 20mm but at the risk of zoom shift. I may try other lenses later but this seemed like a reasonable initial choice.

It's not conventional to use a flash when shooting panos.

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:33 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Quote:
Quote:
In what way is the concept of No Parallax Point (nodal setting) a mystery?

How is it calculated? I see 50mm given as an example but is this accurate for all lens/camera combinations? I am also uncertain about how to measure it. Sorry for the newbie question, but the manual doesn't cover this in much detail.

This should help:
http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 11:43 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
mediavets wrote:

Thanks - also found this reference: http://www.kingpano.com/nodal_tut.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:19 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
Nodal is set right but the stitched pano is still garbage, links are completely wrong.
This looks like a trickier problem to solve.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:46 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
Nodal is set right but the stitched pano is still garbage, links are completely wrong.
This looks like a trickier problem to solve.

Can you ZIP the image set - or a reduced size version - and offer it online so we can download and see what may be the problem.

Some screenshots of the Panorama Editor view would be useful too - if you use Post reply rather than Quick post you'll find an Image upload feature beneath the message edit box.

............

I 'd recommend that you also try shooting the same scene without using a flash too, using a fixed exposure for all shots in the image set with an aperture of say f8.

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:50 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks - will do (for both)

Seth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:32 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
mediavets wrote:
Can you ZIP the image set - or a reduced size version - and offer it online so we can download and see what may be the problem.

Some screenshots of the Panorama Editor view would be useful too - if you use Post reply rather than Quick post you'll find an Image upload feature beneath the message edit box.

............

I 'd recommend that you also try shooting the same scene without using a flash too, using a fixed exposure for all shots in the image set with an aperture of say f8.

Did a single outdoor pano with manual exposure and focus. Used the recommended sequence from the lens resource http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/sigma/. Other sequences have turned out just as badly. This one is also scrambled so at least I know that it isn't due to shooting indoors. The forum didn't like the large ZIP file so I uploaded it here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_mS1owlo7UxQ1Q3VWRxcnNZOFU/edit

Not sure which screen shots would be useful.

Thanks in advance.

Seth


Last edited by sbradley02 on Sat May 05, 2012 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:53 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Here's a quick stitch.

Its not perfect but not 'scrambled'.



_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:21 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
Did a single outdoor pano with manual exposure and focus. Used the recommended sequence from the lens resource http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic-lens-database/sigma/. Other sequences have turned out just as badly. This one is also scrambled so at least I know that it isn't due to shooting indoors.

Quote:
The forum didn't like the large ZIP file so I uploaded it here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_mS1owlo7UxQ1Q3VWRxcnNZOFU/edit

You cannot upload ZIP files to the forum.

Quote:
Not sure which screen shots would be useful.

Here are some useful screenshots:

First - shows the positions of the stitched images - this is after I've manually moved the unlinked 'featureless' zenith shot to a +90 degree pitch and hard-linked it, after forcing it into the pano during detection. I didn't use the Papywizard Import wizard (which as you say scrambles the pano) which is not that useful with spherical panos shot with FE lenses in my opinion.

Two - shows where and how the rows overlap. This shows why the choice of a 15mm FE lens on a cropped sensor body is a poor one. With this shooting pattern you can see the overlaps are not that big but more to the point the images overlap in the region of the horizon which is where you want the best image quality but you have the worst with the edges of images in two rows and any stitch error will be very obvious in this area too.

Three - shows the Control Point Editor view which displays image links and indication of 'link quality' - this is after I've added/edited control points to create links where none existed between adjacent images and tried to improve link quality in some cases too.#
...........

If you have the option of returning the Sigma 15mm FE and exchanging it for a Sigma 10mm FE, or a Tokina 10-17mm FE, then I suggest you do that.

A 15mm FE is ideal for a use with a fullframe sensor DSLR body but it's not good with a cropped sensor DSLR body as your image set makes clear.







_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:53 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Seth,

Can you also make one of your interior pano image sets available for download as a ZIP file?

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:06 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
Andrew,

First I want to thank you for your assistance, it is invaluable.

You made it really clear that I am using the wrong lens, so I took out my personal Canon 10-22mm. Autopano works perfectly using the import function, even indoors with flash (and the flash worked well even with a very short effective 16mm on APS-C FL). Stitching worked great with no adjustments. Hopefully I can still return the lens, it not will have to settle for a used trade-in.
I started out with the recommendation from vrwave and ended up with 4@-50 + 8@0 + 4@50. I have a feeling that I may be able to reduce the number of shots and still get enough overlap, though not sure how to approach it short of trial and error.
Now that I can produce a successful pano I can focus on improving the image quality. I also have some minor discontinuities. I am assuming that this is due to nodal not being spot on (I have a bit more work there) and also some tweaking with the photo pattern. I am around 95% there. Also I found that by lengthening the shutter pulse I could get AF working.

Thanks again,
Seth


Last edited by sbradley02 on Mon May 07, 2012 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:10 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
Update:

I have nodal mostly correct after machining a relief in the rail to accommodate the larger diameter of the Canon. The best pattern I have found so far is 6@50, 6 @0 and 6@-50. Auto stitching is almost perfect with a few minor discontinuities. Any suggestions for further improving stitching accuracy? Is using Adobe lens correction worthwhile?

Thanks again,
Seth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:48 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
Update:

I have nodal mostly correct after machining a relief in the rail to accommodate the larger diameter of the Canon. The best pattern I have found so far is 6@50, 6 @0 and 6@-50. Auto stitching is almost perfect with a few minor discontinuities. Any suggestions for further improving stitching accuracy?

Try not using autofocus.

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:13 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
mediavets wrote:
sbradley02 wrote:
Update:

I have nodal mostly correct after machining a relief in the rail to accommodate the larger diameter of the Canon. The best pattern I have found so far is 6@50, 6 @0 and 6@-50. Auto stitching is almost perfect with a few minor discontinuities. Any suggestions for further improving stitching accuracy?

Try not using autofocus.

I have done a lot of experimentation and have tried it both with and without auto-focus, no difference in stitching accuracy.

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:19 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
I should have started out with the Touch Control Panel. I had an email conversation with Josef and received much useful information on how the unit works and how to set it up. I set the Canon zoom to 12mm and started out with 20% overlap, and had my usual problem with stitching at the zenith. Increased overlap to 25% (which increased the pattern to 3 rows) and for the first time my stitching was perfect and with a corresponding very low RMS value. The TCP is also very fast, I am doing 25 shots with it in less time than 18 took with Papywizard. The TCP is simple to set up and use.

I am using the camera in full auto mode, with autofocus enabled and the camera set to 'P' mode, auto setting F-stop and shutter.

My goal of creating a setup that others can easily use has been met.

This forum is invaluable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:34 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
I should have started out with the Touch Control Panel. I had an email conversation with Josef and received much useful information on how the unit works and how to set it up. I set the Canon zoom to 12mm and started out with 20% overlap, and had my usual problem with stitching at the zenith. Increased overlap to 25% (which increased the pattern to 3 rows) and for the first time my stitching was perfect and with a corresponding very low RMS value. The TCP is also very fast, I am doing 25 shots with it in less time than 18 took with Papywizard. The TCP is simple to set up and use.

Some observations/comments:

1. Yes, it's well known/established that the Touch Control Panel is faster than Papywizard - it uses a different methodology to determine head position, which is possible because of the OS it uses for it's custom hardware; whereas Papywizard is cross-platform and thus has to use a different positioning technique which is slower. However Papywizard is free!

2. 20% overlap is less than anyone would recommend for pano shotting. 25-30% is the conventional recommenddation. beyond that more is not better and excessive overlappintg can itself cause stitching problems.

3. Zoom lenses can be problematical - some exhibit zoom creep at higher +/- pitch values; and it can be tricky to replicate precise zoom levels to ensure NPP remains the same between shoots. Ultra-wide rectilinear lenses also frequently exhibit complex distortions that can be hard for stitching software to accommodate although recent version of APP/SAPG are supposed to be better at this.

3. 25 shots is still a lot to cover a spherical pano destined for display online. The resolutuion of the stitched pano will probably be more than you need, there will be may more seams than you would have if using a fisheye lens and hence more opportunity for stitching errors, and the FOV of each image will be smaller meaning it's more likley you'll end up with some 'featureless' images that may be omitted from the sticth because the software is unable to detect and place control points. And of course if there is any movement in the scene - even clouds in the sky - the time taken to complete the shoot will mean you will have more problems when stitching that if you were using a lens that required fewer shots. On the other hand a robotic poano head is certainly useful when shooting 25-image panos.

Quote:
I am using the camera in full auto mode, with autofocus enabled and the camera set to 'P' mode, auto setting F-stop and shutter.

I cannot think of any experienced pano shooter who would recommend that approach....but if it works for you...

Are you also still proposing to use flash when shooting indoor panos?

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:23 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
mediavets wrote:
Some observations/comments:

2. 20% overlap is less than anyone would recommend for pano shotting. 25-30% is the conventional recommendation. beyond that more is not better and excessive overlappintg can itself cause stitching problems.

20% is the default setting on the TCP so that is where I started.

Quote:
3. Zoom lenses can be problematical - some exhibit zoom creep at higher +/- pitch values; and it can be tricky to replicate precise zoom levels to ensure NPP remains the same between shoots. Ultra-wide rectilinear lenses also frequently exhibit complex distortions that can be hard for stitching software to accommodate although recent version of APP/SAPG are supposed to be better at this.

The Canon 10-22mm is exceptional in most of these respects (though I can see the point about replicating the zoom setting). It uses an internal zoom mechanism which is rock solid and it exhibits zero zoom creep (the lens length remains fixed). The NPP varies only 1mm over the entire zoom range. As to distortion, this review http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/1022.htm might be useful. I was thinking of using the Adobe lens correction profile but thus far have had no need, Autopano Giga corrects it very well on its own.

Quote:
3. 25 shots is still a lot to cover a spherical pano destined for display online. The resolutuion of the stitched pano will probably be more than you need, there will be may more seams than you would have if using a fisheye lens and hence more opportunity for stitching errors, and the FOV of each image will be smaller meaning it's more likley you'll end up with some 'featureless' images that may be omitted from the sticth because the software is unable to detect and place control points. And of course if there is any movement in the scene - even clouds in the sky - the time taken to complete the shoot will mean you will have more problems when stitching that if you were using a lens that required fewer shots. On the other hand a robotic poano head is certainly useful when shooting 25-image panos.

My usage model is not very typical. With 25 shots the resolution is right at the edge of what I require - I need to be able to zoom way in and retain sharpness. My shoots are 100% indoors so the only random element I have to worry about is people walking into the shoot (in my test shoot this actually happened and the software handled it without issue). If I need more resolution I can zoom out and take even more shots. I think I will try a test shoot at 22mm and see what happens. The ultimate rig for my purposes would be the Canon EOS 5D full frame, probably with the Sigma 15mm fisheye I tried at first. This would however add almost $3000 to the price.

sbradley02 wrote:
I am using the camera in full auto mode, with autofocus enabled and the camera set to 'P' mode, auto setting F-stop and shutter.

mediavets wrote:
I cannot think of any experienced pano shooter who would recommend that approach....but if it works for you...

It does indeed work and the alternative is non-optimal. I have objects ranging from ~ 1m to over 15m in the same shoot and all must remain in sharp focus. This requires a very small aperture with fixed focus and this is problematic with flash shooting in my experience.

Quote:
Are you also still proposing to use flash when shooting indoor panos?

Yes, 100% of the time.


Last edited by sbradley02 on Mon May 14, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:22 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
22mm test shots worked well. Ended up with 31% overlap = 55 shots. Increase in resolution is less than one would expect with a doubling of shots. May need to play with camera settings further. I think fixing the aperture may help. I can try single shot tests to see.

Thought of trying a 50mm lens - 225 shots! This is beyond impractical. I still think the next step to higher resolution would be full frame, but the cost would be very high and I suspect that another pano head would need to be used due to the large weight placed far from the pitch axis.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
22mm test shots worked well. Ended up with 31% overlap = 55 shots. Increase in resolution is less than one would expect with a doubling of shots. May need to play with camera settings further. I think fixing the aperture may help. I can try single shot tests to see.

You may have double the number of shots but the overlap is also increased.

Quote:
Thought of trying a 50mm lens - 225 shots! This is beyond impractical.

Why do you say this is 'way beyond impractical'?

If the scene is static then the only challenge is handling all the data when stitching and rendering. 225 shots is no problem for the robotic pano head. I've shot approx. hemi-spherical panos (the ceiling in a church) with a 50mm lens, they stitched very well. 50mm prime lenses are relatively inexpensive, compact, and tend to show very little distortion.

Quote:
I still think the next step to higher resolution would be full frame, but the cost would be very high and I suspect that another pano head would need to be used due to the large weight placed far from the pitch axis.

Increasing the sensor resolution or increasing the focal length will both increase the resolution of your panos. Cheaper and easier to use a longer focal length for a significant increase in pano resolution.

A larger DSLR body will demand modification of the upper rail mount on a Merlin/Panogear head if you are to be able to place camera/lens at the NPP, which will be essential if you are shooting interior spherical panos.

The Merlin/Panogear mount has limited scope for modification/adjustment to handle larger DSLRs mounted at the NPP in portrait orientation. Beyond that you'd need to look at the upcoming Panoneed head; or the Seitz VRDrive II, Rodeon or Panomachine robotic heads - and they are all much more expensive than a Merlin/Panogear system.

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:26 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
My usage model is not very typical. With 25 shots the resolution is right at the edge of what I require - I need to be able to zoom way in and retain sharpness. My shoots are 100% indoors so the only random element I have to worry about is people walking into the shoot (in my test shoot this actually happened and the software handled it without issue). If I need more resolution I can zoom out and take even more shots. I think I will try a test shoot at 22mm and see what happens. The ultimate rig for my purposes would be the Canon EOS 5D full frame, probably with the Sigma 15mm fisheye I tried at first. This would however add almost $3000 to the price.

I think you'll find that your T2i with 22mm rectilinear lens will produce a higher res. pano than a 5D with a 15mm fisheye.

...............

Can we see one of your panos shot in programmed auto mode with autofocus and flash?

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:03 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Posts: 21
mediavets wrote:
sbradley02 wrote:
My usage model is not very typical. With 25 shots the resolution is right at the edge of what I require - I need to be able to zoom way in and retain sharpness. My shoots are 100% indoors so the only random element I have to worry about is people walking into the shoot (in my test shoot this actually happened and the software handled it without issue). If I need more resolution I can zoom out and take even more shots. I think I will try a test shoot at 22mm and see what happens. The ultimate rig for my purposes would be the Canon EOS 5D full frame, probably with the Sigma 15mm fisheye I tried at first. This would however add almost $3000 to the price.

I think you'll find that your T2i with 22mm rectilinear lens will produce a higher res. pano than a 5D with a 15mm fisheye.

Can we see one of your panos shot in programmed auto mode with autofocus and flash?

This could well be the case (though I was thinking of the Nikon D800 with the 17-35 zoom - probably way too much money even before you factor in requiring a larger head). I tried increasing the F-stop, no difference in resolution. As far as being impractical, 225 shots would take ~ 45 minutes. I programmed in a 35mm, more practical at just over 100 shots. May rent a lens, haven't decided.

Sure, I will take the rig home again to take test shots I can distribute. Would you like to see 12mm, 22mm, both? Will get this done some time bext week, waiting for my back ordered hard case to arrive.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:36 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:12 pm
Posts: 14069
Location: Isleham, Cambridgeshire, UK.
sbradley02 wrote:
This could well be the case (though I was thinking of the Nikon D800 with the 17-35 zoom - probably way too much money even before you factor in requiring a larger head).

Not to mention the money you'd have to spend to get a PC powerful enough to handle all that data.

Quote:
I will take the rig home again to take test shots I can distribute. Would you like to see 12mm, 22mm, both? Will get this done some time bext week, waiting for my back ordered hard case to arrive.

Either or both. I'm just intrigued to see an interior spherical pano shot using programmed auto with flash.

_________________
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group