How to go faster?  

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jriley
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How to go faster?

by jriley » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:27 pm

Ever since I saw the demo of Kolor's Panogear version of the Merlin, all I can think about is: How did they get it to move so fast? It looks 10 times as fast as mine for that kind of angular movement! See the movie at:

http://www.kolor.com/panogear-motorized-panoramic-head.html

I REALLY would like to have mine move anywhere near that speed :P

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gkaefer
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by gkaefer » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:19 am

... maybe the fastforward option in the videoediting software :D
no - seriously:

do you use the merlin, with or without the TC controller, the panogear with or without TC touchcontroller?

Josef - the magic brain behind the TC touch controller - www.typeandcolour.de may does have an answer about speed with papywizzard contra speed with TC-handcontroller
http://www.kolor.com/forum/p96669-2012-03-18-19-13-42#p96669
see in his answer at point 9...
... this combined with an camera capable using the mirrorup option may also speed up.

but this focal length & speed of movement & merlin even with mirror up... the shaking of the mounted camera is not neglectable, so I think this "pano" in the video can only work if a very short shutter speed is used...

Georg
Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jriley
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by jriley » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:02 am

I am using the plain old Skywatcher/Merlin head with Papywizard and Bluetooth. I had wondered if the TC Controller was faster somehow, but I don't know why it should be able to do something Papywizard can't (The tread you reference doesn't explain why it is so much faster at small angles, as in the video :/ .)

Are you saying that things run faster with "mirror up" selected in Papywizard? Or, are you saying that you can reduce the stabilization time if you use mirror lock-up? I am using a mirrorless micro-4/3 Olympus E-P2, so I never bothered with the flag.

I have been wondering where I can cut some time out, but the only places I see time are in Stabilization and the Low and HIgh Pulse-Width. All of those put together are far shorter than the times I see. In fact, my shutter is firing very soon after it stops, but it seems the head sits there a long time after that before it starts to move again. I think it is nearly 10s between shutter firings when it is only moving a few degrees. There is seemingly more time sitting still than moving.

How low is it safe to cut the pulse width? My stabilization is at 0.3 s right now and I believe the pulses are both at 0.2s (whatever is default).

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gkaefer
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by gkaefer » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:49 am

to be honest. its some time past I used papywizzard on my merlin. (TC-Controller automatically calculates the number of images needed per row, less in nadir and zenith and more in equator; I dont need a notebook on location with the TC and can be combined with promote control device...)

in the video the TC handcontroller is attached to the panogear. the TC handcontroller does have a mirror up function too.
Josef said in his posting that the handcontroller does move the merlin faster than papywizzar does if angle is above 10". so I think this is main speed gain I think.
but the video shows less than 10" so Josefs is also using the "slow" mode as with papywizzard. so cant really explain it.

the mirror up is usefull only for cameras with mirror... so you should not use it on papywizzard ;-)
so using a camera with mirror and TCcontroller + papywizard + mirror up does speedup with brackets, without brackets ... it depends on camera used:
canon EOS400D mirror cant be up all the time, after a single shot it is going down. Canon 5DmkII can do mirror up all the time...

so maybe they just used for demovideo settings like 0s stab.pause 0.1s shutter delay and for the plugin settings like higher angles/sec values and 1/8000 shutterspeed on Camera

Georg

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by klausesser » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:46 pm

jriley wrote:I am using the plain old Skywatcher/Merlin head with Papywizard and Bluetooth. I had wondered if the TC Controller was faster somehow, but I don't know why it should be able to do something Papywizard can't (The tread you reference doesn't explain why it is so much faster at small angles, as in the video :/ .)

Are you saying that things run faster with "mirror up" selected in Papywizard? Or, are you saying that you can reduce the stabilization time if you use mirror lock-up? I am using a mirrorless micro-4/3 Olympus E-P2, so I never bothered with the flag.

I have been wondering where I can cut some time out, but the only places I see time are in Stabilization and the Low and HIgh Pulse-Width. All of those put together are far shorter than the times I see. In fact, my shutter is firing very soon after it stops, but it seems the head sits there a long time after that before it starts to move again. I think it is nearly 10s between shutter firings when it is only moving a few degrees. There is seemingly more time sitting still than moving.

How low is it safe to cut the pulse width? My stabilization is at 0.3 s right now and I believe the pulses are both at 0.2s (whatever is default).

Hi!

The TC definitely speeds the Merlin up - in combination with the accu-set Josef provides. Both result in a speedier Merlin. But the video seems to me a bit illusionary . . ;):cool:

With lenses of more than 105mm the Merlin slows down dramatically. That´s because there´s a combination of "move to" and "go to" - with short lenses first it moves fast and then slows down to "go to" the final and exact position. With lenses of more than 105mm the head uses the "go to" speed all the time - and that´s very slow because of it´s precision.

Stabilization time after mirror-lock is vital - without a short wait-time before firing the shutter the mirror-lock would make no sense at all.

best, Klaus



Mirror-lock would be useless without a wait-time to let the shaking come to rest. So there is about half a second of wait-time after the mirror has locked up and before the exposure starts.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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jriley
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by jriley » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:58 pm

What is this "accu-set" you speak of?

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by mediavets » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:59 pm

jriley wrote:What is this "accu-set" you speak of?

Klaus means the Lithium Ion battery conversion:

http://www.kolor.com/buy/photo-hardware/accessories

http://www.typeandcolour.de/index.php?tp=Produkte&up=batt
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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claudevh
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by claudevh » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:08 pm

gkaefer wrote:... maybe the fastforward option in the videoediting software

Not so stupid ! the video is mentionned as 10 x faster (below left ...!)

Anyway this is correct that TC controler is know as "being faster" mainly by the usage of the "accu-set" who deliver a higher voltage then the normal NiMh accus.
The Merlin is tolerent up/to +/- 15 Volts

So Lipo's with 4 elements of 3.6 V will deliver 14.4 V (some from other technology 4 x 3.7 = 14.8 V) in comparison with ...

- 8 x 1.2 v = 9.6 V for NiMh
- 8 x 1.5 v = 12 V for NiCad
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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fma38
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by fma38 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:41 am

The T&C controller speeds up the Merlin because it does not use its internal GOTO function, but instead uses the JOG function, and implement its own closed loop positionning algo. The JOG function allows to set the speed, not the GOTO function.

But such implementation needs a real-time system, or, like the T&C controller, no os at all, so you can manage timings very precisely.

That's why Papywizard can't implement such feature.
Frédéric

Canon 20D + 17-40/f4 L USM + 70-200/f4 L USM + 50/f1.4 USM
Merlin/Orion panohead + Papywizard on Nokia N800 and HP TC-1100


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