Nokia N900 or N810 for Merlin / Papywizard ?  

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panoramoz
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Nokia N900 or N810 for Merlin / Papywizard ?

by panoramoz » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:21 am

Hi I use a Motion Tablet with windows XP to control the Merlin with Papywizard. Works great but like to go smaller.
So selling the Motion Tablet and shall I buy a Nokia N810 or N900 ?

Is the Nokia N810 WiMax an option ?

Thanks : Jacob
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by mediavets » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:08 am

panoramoz wrote:Hi I use a Motion Tablet with windows XP to control the Merlin with Papywizard. Works great but like to go smaller.
So selling the Motion Tablet and shall I buy a Nokia N810 or N900 ?

Buy an N810. As far as I know no-one has yet managed to get Papywizard to work properly on the N900.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by panoramoz » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:20 am

Thanks !! That confirms what I found more or less all over the forum in various bits and pieces. Have a nice day ;-) , Jacob
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by klausesser » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:41 pm

panoramoz wrote:Hi I use a Motion Tablet with windows XP to control the Merlin with Papywizard. Works great but like to go smaller.
So selling the Motion Tablet and shall I buy a Nokia N810 or N900 ?

Is the Nokia N810 WiMax an option ?

Thanks : Jacob

Hi Jacob!

If you want to go really small - and more straight, comfortable: i suggest to have a look at the TC controller! I showed it here (on Josef´s new head):
http://www.kolor.com/forum/t12057-tadaaa-here-it-is-prototype

You just have to configure it one at home - all settings are stored and in the field you just select your canera/lens from a list anf tell the TC what you want to do.
It writes xml files for APG also. No hazzle with BT-adresses and somewhat irritating menues.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by panoramoz » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:37 pm

Looks like the best choice, now off to modify that Merlin to a more camera friendly setup. Since you are so involved , do you , by any chance , know if the motor controller board in it and the motors are available as a .... spare part or so ? I can strip all the electronics and motors out of the Merlin like others did and fit to my custom built unit , but buying them as spare parts would be nicer . Here in Australia I could not find it. Freundliche Grusse : Jacob
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by klausesser » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:32 pm

panoramoz wrote:Looks like the best choice, now off to modify that Merlin to a more camera friendly setup. Since you are so involved , do you , by any chance , know if the motor controller board in it and the motors are available as a .... spare part or so ? I can strip all the electronics and motors out of the Merlin like others did and fit to my custom built unit , but buying them as spare parts would be nicer . Here in Australia I could not find it. Freundliche Grusse : Jacob

Hey Jacob!

I don´t know much about the Merlin´s hardware, sorry. But i guess the basic struture isn´t bad at all . . !

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by panoramoz » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:18 am

It looks quite straightforward. My setup will be different most likely with better quality motors. Would be handy to start with some available gear and build from there.
I keep the forum posted about progress. Maybe we can start a panogear DIY club ;-)
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by claudevh » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:23 pm

Hello Jacob,

I confirm what Klaus have said
the basic struture isn´t bad at all . . !

I know that the motor assemblies looks cheapy but the are "good" and very few users have reported problems with them ...
You say
My setup will be different most likely with better quality motors.

You are on a bad way for the improvements ...

What are the majors "negatives issues" of the Merlin head (not in order of importance !):

- The "foot print" (base) is huge

- The "A dimension" is limited = maximum 40 mm ... (see picture herafter)

- The rotation is quite slow, mainly for "gigapix"

- The batteries are limited mainly for Timelapse.

All those issues can be solved quite easy... except the speed problem who can be "improved" by using the T&C touch controler (not cheap ...)

The Merlin head combined wit Papywizard is the cheapest way to get a automatic panoramic head ... this is "THE" major advantage for all amateurs photograph's !

Everybody "WITH BIG MONEY" can buy the perfect automatic panoramic head, they are several on the market !!!


:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by panoramoz » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:47 am

Hi Claude , thank yo so much for your very detailed reply. Much appreciated!!!
What I did not tell and so you could not know is that I'm a professional photographer since 1970's with a degree in mechanical engineering. Handy at many occasions and a handicap at the same time. Striving for perfection and tend to overdo my designs when a simple approach would provide a similar satisfying result... The pure mechanical/ die-cast structure of the Merlin is hard to improve, As you say it should be faster and it is just such a pity the unit hardy allows for a proper nodal point setting. I have covered that all in my design and are looking at the best way to 'energize' it. DC or stepper , Bluetooth / built in / wired control. Many roads to take. I have quite a few professional contacts both on engineering and electronics and not are shy of investing some money in research. I'll keep you posted once I made some real progress.
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by claudevh » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:43 pm

OK Jacob, I understand beter your approach and I am confident that it will be usefull for all of us !
Waiting that you share your experience with the community.

Claude
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by Paul » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:08 pm

Look here to see a radical modification of a Merlin: http://www.flickr.com/photos/Undertable
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by klausesser » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:41 pm

Paul wrote:Look here to see a radical modification of a Merlin: http://www.flickr.com/photos/Undertable

Hey Paul!

Not bad! But i guess coming to that point i myself would think about designing a completely new head and controlling with stronger/faster motors, higher precision and so on . .
Looks very fine what they made anyway!

best to you, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Paul » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:44 pm

Hey Klaus,

Oliver Bauer has done this impressive Merlin-Mod.
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by klausesser » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:42 pm

Paul wrote:Hey Klaus,

Oliver Bauer has done this impressive Merlin-Mod.

Yes - it´s really impressive! Looks very fine! But i guess it means lots of skills, time and gadgets - and in the end becomes rather expensive because of that, doesn´t it?
I guess this very fine elaborated construction might deserve better and faster motors of higher accuracy!?

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by mediavets » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:56 pm

panoramoz wrote:I'll keep you posted once I made some real progress.

See this thread:

http://www.kolor.com/forum/t13063-diy-camera-mounts-on-ebay
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by panoramoz » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:52 pm

What Oliver did is nothing short of amazing. The intricate quality of his work shows off! But also highlights the problem many gifted ( German ? ;-) engineers have : 'over engineering' to a point where it becomes just to expensive. Think of the beautiful Rolleiflex cameras , the best of their times and still unsurpassed but also sort of unaffordable for most of us. That is where many American designs stand out : keep it simple and durable, but they lack the refinement and unique thoughts put in by our German friends. Coming from Holland having worked in Germany and now living on the other side of the planet with contacts all over the world who knows I may pull something off that is a nice middle of the road 'thingho'. I'm working at it at a slow but continuous pace. Be patient , once in a stage I can share it I am sure many will like it.
Sorry I'm a bit philosophical
Claude can you put me in a direction where I can find information how to mate the Papywizard with normal stepper motors? Cheers: Jacob
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by fma38 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:02 pm

panoramoz wrote:Claude can you put me in a direction where I can find information how to mate the Papywizard with normal stepper motors?

As the main developer of Papywizard, I can help you ;)

Papywizard drives hardwares through plugins, so it is very easy to support new ones. What you need is a motor controller which supports your steppers. Then, you need to write a specific Papywizard plugin to communicate with that controller.

Only a few functions are needed: start jog, move to, read pos, stop, get status... The only thing to keep in mind is that both axis need to be independant, as Papywizard will acess them concurently. They can be on the same physical line (a mutex is used to avoid collision), but Papywizard needs to be able to start one or both axis, and wait the end of the command. For that, the controller must answer immediatly (only handling com. errors) and run the command in background. Then, Papywizard poll it to know when the command ends.

I suggest you have a look at the Merlin/Orion plugin, which is the first I developed. Then, you can also look to other plugins. Some have been developed by other guys, for pro (Clauss) or DIY (Owl) heads.
Frédéric

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by panoramoz » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:25 am

Hi Frederic , thanks for pointing that out to me. I know a lot about mechanics about near zill about electronics. So every help is welcome.
Is there anyone already attempting to translate ( is that the right expression ? ) Papywizard to the iPhone platform. Or is that completely impossible ? I think for all you did, that would be the lifesaver for your fantastic work. The Nokia platform seems to be at a dead end. Once on iPhone more developers may jump in to keep it going forever.
Last edited by panoramoz on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by Undertable » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:19 am

Hello there
panoramoz wrote:The intricate quality of his work shows off!

Sorry when You received that impression. Beleave it or not this was not my intention! I got support and ideas from here and in turn I wanted to share my experience modifying this head in my way - not to make somebody recreate it one-to-one but rather to give an/some idea(s). Everybody can form an opinion and decide for himself to use any suggestion (simpler implementation) or not, of course.
panoramoz wrote:highlights the problem many gifted ( German ? ;-) engineers have : 'over engineering' to a point where it becomes just to expensive

Please note that this was a hobby project without any demand on serial production. It just had to come up with my personal expectations. I had to pay only for the components and materials I used but neither for my own working hours nor machine time. So this head was time-consuming but definitely not too expensive for me.
Both are availlable commercially, cheap(er) heads with some limitations and perfect ones for much more money. I think I made something between coming up my personal expectations. With pleasure I`ve spent as much freetime as was necessary because I really like this kind of work.

klausesser wrote:controlling with stronger/faster motors, higher precision and so on . .

In fact I thought about that first but didn´t know which drives and electronic to use and how to get them up and running with papywitard and TC-control. Unfortunately I have no skills in electronics and so I decided to use Merlin-Parts.
Maybe somebody can tell us which compatible drives and controllers to use and where to buy these components? I`m sure this would be helpful for other hobbyists.

regards
Oliver
Last edited by Undertable on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by panoramoz » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:39 am

Dear friends , I did not want to upset any of you German geniuses, my apologises if I gave that impression. It is a , if I may say so , just clinical observation that for some reason German engineering excels that of many others and if economics are no hindrance as in your case it is just proof about the great determination you had in engineering a perfect panorama head. Congratulations !!
I am researching some options re. motors at the moment, will let you know if I receive the first samples I found.
Jacob.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you did not do as by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain

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by klausesser » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:07 pm

Undertable wrote:
klausesser wrote:controlling with stronger/faster motors, higher precision and so on . .

In fact I thought about that first but didn´t know which drives and electronic to use and how to get them up and running with papywitard and TC-control. Unfortunately I have no skills in electronics and so I decided to use Merlin-Parts.
Maybe somebody can tell us which compatible drives and controllers to use and where to buy these components? I`m sure this would be helpful for other hobbyists.

Hi Oliver!

One of the advantages of the original Merlin motors: they´re very small, cheap and do their job very ok! No doubt.
I mean you did a brilliant job making this head - it looks very fine and i bet it feels good :cool:

Go ahead!

all the best and good luck, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Undertable » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:21 pm

klausesser wrote:advantages of the original Merlin motors: they´re very small, cheap and do their job very ok!

I think so. It would be interesting where to buy these (Merlin-) motors separately as spare parts.
If somebody knows...

BTW: thank You Klaus and Paul for the nice words. I appreciate that

Oliver
Last edited by Undertable on Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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