creating an xml file for import with autopano  

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danibo
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creating an xml file for import with autopano

by danibo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:46 pm

Hallo

In my project I try to photograph/scan the human body with a macro lens.
At the moment I start shooting portraits
For this I use a Canon D5 Mark ll, a 180mm Macro lens and ABB Robot IRB 120.
The Robot moves very precise at 1/100 milimeter per step. I can define the movements very easy. Now they are set at 18mm for the row and 12mm for the next line. (halve the format of the D5 Mark ll which is 36x24 mm)
As a result I would like to make very big and sharp prints. 3x3 meters.
As Stiching software I use Autopano.
Because I have many areas with skin tones or white backgrounds the software has problems to finde connecting points.

A first example of a portrait can be seen here: http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/73665/
And the setting with robot is here: Image

Would it be possible to write a xml file so I could import the pictures with the Papywizard Tool?

Does a default xml exists for this situaton which I could adapt? I know the number of steps and movements. But the camera does not stay at one point. It moves from left right and from top to down.

Or does anybody has a better idea to stitch this kind of picture.

Thanks for any help
Dani
Last edited by danibo on Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mediavets
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by mediavets » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:03 am

Did you try the Gigapan Import wizard?
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by danibo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:34 pm

Yes I try to import the pictures with the Gigapan import Tool.
Very nice and easy to use feature.

Is it possible to simulate the overlapping percentage of the pictures in the preview too?
Now I am using 50 percent because I move half of the cameraformat. 36mm -> 18mm and 24mm -> 12mm
Screenshots can be see here:
http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/12178085/2/pano_portraits_pp/import_with_apg?h=27682e

Can I read somewhere what the program is exactly doing when you set the number of lines and rows and the percentage of the overlapping. How does it influence the controlpoints finding.

Because I move the camera not around the NPP I mark multiple viewpoints (Group settings/Optimization)

Is that ok? Any other suggestion from your experience.

Thanks to all.
Daniel
Canon 5D Mark ll, 180mm Macro, ABB Robot IRB 120

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by wjh31 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:51 pm

you could try running papywizard in simulation mode. Download and install it, then tell it to run in simulation and give it the appropriate parameters (inc overlap%). Then it will run through and write the positions to an xml file which you can use with the papywizard import in autopano to bring your images in.

By the way i like the idea of your project, i actually stumbled upon your image on gigapan shortly after i uploaded a similar-ish one of my own (http://gigapan.org/gigapans/73029/). I wonder if you have any plans on tackling the depth of field issue, as there are a few spots in yours where the shallow dof shows...

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by danibo » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:44 pm

to night I will try to make a portrait with focus stacking. but the problem will be, that you have different views in the pictures because of the aspect ratio.. we will see.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12178085/Helicon%20Focus3d_railposter001.jpg
Canon 5D Mark ll, 180mm Macro, ABB Robot IRB 120

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by Brines » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:11 pm

I did something similar here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/devinbrines/5530242763/

I don't know about .xml support for your panohead, but for my photo I used the Merlin head;

Autopano Giga must stitch based on .xml coordinates alone if it cannot find control points in the extremely out of focus areas; some people told me this was not possible--stitching solely from .xml coordinates--but they were wrong.

For my image, I stitched 180 photographs together--with 40% overlap when shooting, Autopano Giga was able to stitch the out of focus photographs (or in other words, nearly all of the photographs) completely from the .xml coordinates.

For it to work, the lens's nodal point needs to be on the axis of the head.

I don't know how to have Autopano Giga place images based on .xml coordinates without trying to find control points. In photographs such as this, it is better if Autopano does not try to find control points at all; when stitching out of focus images from .xml coordinates, it is better if Autopano does NOT find any coordinates. Its innate ability to place the images is, in my opinion, satisfactory.

You need to do what you can to ensure that Autopano does not find control points in the out of focus regions; if it attempts to find and like them, it is likely that they will be extremely inaccurate and will mess up the software and hardware's innate ability to stitch them.

So, in order to ensure that it does not find control points, this is what I recommend:

1. Set the parameters of the panorama as if the subject were in the shot.
2. Take the subject out of the shot so as to eliminate the possibility of Autopano Giga finding control points on your subject (as I assume your subject will be very close to the camera's minimum focusing distance).
3. Then focus at the minimum focusing distance of the lens, at which there are no details in focus, and no details that Autopano Giga will be able to connect.
4. Shoot the panorama using Papywizard.
5. Without touching the camera (!), put your subject back in the scene.
6. Use your remote to electronically move the lens to where you want to focus on the subject. Then focus on them.
7. Now, reshoot the panorama using the same grid as before. (I know there is a repeat mode in Papywizard.)
8. This will then reshoot all of the images at the same .xml coordinates as the first set of images; assuming you didn't move the camera, the positionings should remain true the second time around.
9. Go into Autopano Giga and use the import wizard to stitch together the out of focus panorama.
10. Once it has stitched flawlessly, save a new file.
11. In the new file, replace each photo with the matched photograph from the other set; in other words, replace the first photo of the out of focus panorama with the first photo of the in-focus panorama. Do this for all of the photos.
12. The final result should be what you desire. You might have to tweak optimization settings or turn final optimization off. I'm just not sure. If you take a trial-and-error approach in the settings with what the program does before the final render, you will discover what looks the best. Perhaps it's better if the panorama optimizes; perhaps it's better if it doesn't. It's up to you, really.

So yes, the method is complicated, and perhaps the whole thing would work without doing the replacement method, but I also find it extremely likely that the program would try to find control points between images that are a little too out of focus to stitch. My example was easier because the subject was in focus and the background wasn't. There was a clear difference. But I notice that in your examples, the difference between in-focus and out-of-focus is not distinct. I see this as a potential problem, and so I have recommended a workaround.

If anyone knows how I could stitch a panorama based completely on the native .xml positions without Autopano trying to find control points, I would appreciate them passing the knowledge onto me. You would benefit from this as well, as you would no longer need to replace all of the photos to get around the fact that Autopano is trying to stitch them from control points.

Some people say that the Merlin head is too inaccurate for this. In my tests, I've found the opposite to be true, but perhaps my test with the paper crane on stage is a lot more forgiving than stitching the human body--there might be less potential for error in stitching together the out of focus theater.

I do know that a more accurate panorama head is on the way--it is the Roundshot VR Drive Generation II. Not only is it more accurate, but it can support heavier lenses, and it seems to be a lot easier to place lenses on their nodal point. The downside: the device costs over $3,000.

Best,
Devin Brines

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by mediavets » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:47 pm

Brines wrote:If anyone knows how I could stitch a panorama based completely on the native .xml positions without Autopano trying to find control points, I would appreciate them passing the knowledge onto me.
Best,
Devin Brines

Turn off Autodetection in the Papywizard Import Detection options, and as far as I know it will just use recorded location.


Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Brines » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:04 pm

That's interesting because I'm pretty sure I tried that; I tried fooling around with all of those settings, but didn't have any luck with it. I must have made a mistake somewhere along the line. I'll have to give it another shot today. Thanks man!

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by Brines » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:59 pm

I tried it again, but still did not have success.

I turned off autodetection, but still on the next screen the only way to assemble the panorama is to press the green arrow that says "Start Detection."

This then does the detection.

Is there anyway for it to assemble the panorama without trying to detect control points?

Thanks,
Devin

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by mediavets » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:31 pm

Brines wrote:I tried it again, but still did not have success.

I turned off autodetection, but still on the next screen the only way to assemble the panorama is to press the green arrow that says "Start Detection."

This then does the detection.

Is there anyway for it to assemble the panorama without trying to detect control points?

Thanks,
Devin

I think I misinformed you.

Try these settings - yes, it will run detection but it appears that skipping the optimisation means it uses the location data only to position the images.


Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Brines » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:36 pm

AlexandreJ gave the same answer; thank you so much guys!

He also gave me this link on this topic:

http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.autopano.net/wiki-fr/action/view/Utilisation_de_PapyWizard&prev=_t&twu=1

Thanks so much guys!

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by AlexandreJ » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:22 am

To danibo : I like the setup. Really nice. As Brines did, don't hesitate to write to me directly if you need help in your case. I found such shooting scenario really interesting.

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by GURL » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:38 am

danibo wrote:to night I will try to make a portrait with focus stacking.

I would recommend to test first very small appertures like F:22, F:32, etc

Usual objection "It can't work as diffraction would forbid any decent results!" is answered there: http://www.autopano.net/forum/t6731-want-larger-dof-use-f22-or-f32-aperture-shoot-more-images

BTW, here is a macro-pano specialist working in a lab near you: http://www.panophoto.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=301&t=9557
Georges

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by gkaefer » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:51 pm

mediavets wrote:
Brines wrote:I tried it again, but still did not have success.

I turned off autodetection, but still on the next screen the only way to assemble the panorama is to press the green arrow that says "Start Detection."

This then does the detection.

Is there anyway for it to assemble the panorama without trying to detect control points?

Thanks,
Devin

I think I misinformed you.

Try these settings - yes, it will run detection but it appears that skipping the optimisation means it uses the location data only to position the images.

???? which version on which platform do you use?
Using win764bit with newwest APG 2.5.1 this option "use recoded location" is not available!!!!

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg


Last edited by gkaefer on Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:22 pm

gkaefer wrote:???? which version on which platform do you use?
Using win764bit with newwest APG 2.5.1 this option "use recoded location" is not available!!!!

Liebe Gruesse,
Georg

APG 2.5.1 32-bit on Windows XP Pro with SP3.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Brines » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:23 pm

Team,

What is absolutely essential is that the nodal point is at the right position. Absolutely essential, especially if your subject is at a close range. If you don't find it to the best of your ability, don't bother shooting. I might have wasted an 8-hour shoot the other night because mine wasn't perfect--we'll see what happens.

D

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by danibo » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:34 pm

to all who supported me with advise in my project: optical sequencing of human body.
I had a MountainBike accident, now I have 10 srews in my back.. and in a hospital.
No wheel chair. There were some angels around.
will be back and activ again in this forum in about 4 weeks
danibo
Canon 5D Mark ll, 180mm Macro, ABB Robot IRB 120

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by danibo » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:20 pm

Hallo
I m back again from hospital.. sorry took little longer then 4 weeks
I still try to make my portrait with my robot.

Image

In the meantime I built a telecentric lens which has the NP at infinity. This way I should not have any problems with the paralax because the robot does not move around the NP but moves from left to right..
with this the telecentric lens the future focus stacking will be easier as well
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13586&highlight=

The last shoot I did with this telecentric lens and overlapping of exactly 25%. (moving 27mm to horizontal and 18mm to the vertical)
Image

I imported the pix with the Gigapan tool.
With this setting I got the best result.
Image


But the result is not really satisfying. Is there better way too import this kind of "mosaic-panos" which not are oriented at the NP.
I still look for way to import with no dedection

Thanks
danibo
Canon 5D Mark ll, 180mm Macro, ABB Robot IRB 120

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by danibo » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:08 am

with some help from AlexandreJ
Stiching with Autogigapano works fine now.
I import with the Gigapan Import Tool with the setting of to no Auto dedection. After that I set the lens properties to 1000mm.

thanks


Last edited by danibo on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by danibo » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:45 pm

Hallo
I uploaded a little video about the workflow.
Now I have to fine tune the whole system.

http://www.vimeo.com/27432779

[url]http://www.gigapan.org/​gigapans/​fullscreen/​83650/​[/url]

danibo
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by AlexandreJ » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:25 pm

waouh ! this is genius.
Like in CSI, you can zoom into the eyes to see the reflection of the whole setting in the eye. Freaking awesome job. Congratulation, you have something.

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by danibo » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:35 pm

Thanks

To become better than CSI and to get a better DOF I started to focus stack the pictures with helicon.
But when I try to import them with the Gigapan Import feature I get very strange stitching results.
see Sreenshot.
When I make a default import the stiching is ok, but AGP does not take all pictures.

I renamed the helicon-processed pix with sequenze numbers.
Same result.
I even tried to change the exposer date and time. Every picture got a time which was 1 second more than one before.
But it did not help.

What does I have to make to be able to stich the helicon processed pix with the gigapan feature?

I was reading about a stacking plug in but did not find a description for it. Does this plugin works with a Mac as well?
thant would help very much.

thanks
danibo


Last edited by danibo on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:07 pm

danibo wrote:Hallo
I uploaded a little video about the workflow.
Now I have to fine tune the whole system.

http://www.vimeo.com/27432779

[url]http://www.gigapan.org/​gigapans/​fullscreen/​83650/​[/url]

danibo

Awsome . . great! Never thought you get it stitched regarding the way you shoot it . . :cool:

big compliment to Kolor!!

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by danibo » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Hallo
some days ago I started working again on my Gigapan-Project. Parallel mosaic paning with a telecentric lens.

RMS is quite good. About 3 or so. But because of the telecentric lens and parallel movement the face are distorted. (left: normal oneshot picture. right: stitched picture, 45pix with 7x3mm focusstacking.
http://gigapan.com/gigapans/108318

Is there a sofware or a tool I could correct it little. I think if you would project the picutre on ball it should come out normal.

Thanks for the feedback.
danibo








Last edited by danibo on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:49 pm

danibo wrote:Hallo
some days ago I started working again on my Gigapan-Project. Parallel mosaic paning with a telecentric lens.

RMS is quite good. About 3 or so. But because of the telecentric lens and parallel movement the face are distorted. (left: normal oneshot picture. right: stitched picture, 45pix with 7x3mm focusstacking.
http://gigapan.com/gigapans/108318

Is there a sofware or a tool I could correct it little. I think if you would project the picutre on ball it should come out normal.

Thanks for the feedback.
danibo

Hey Danibo!

Honestly - this might become difficult doing it in a stitcher. I strongly suggest Photoshop´s "Warp" module! Here you can very much finer-tune any proportions.

Besides - let me say it again: great work, man!!

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel


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