Apple Devices for Papywizard?  

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Apple Devices for Papywizard?

by ameade19 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:16 pm

Hi all new to the forum... so I apologize ahead of time for repeat questions.

I have been looking around and noticed everyone is using the nokia tablets. Does anyone know of any apple devices that can be used? iphones? ipads?

I could use my laptop but that doesnt make it very easy out in the desert.

thanks again

alex

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by mediavets » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:28 pm

Welcome to the forum...

Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

Currently the Nokia N800 and N810 Internet Tablets are the only handheld wireless (Bluetooth) devices that will run the latest version of Papywizard.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by gkaefer » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:00 pm

mediavets wrote:Welcome to the forum...

Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

Currently the Nokia N800 and N810 Internet Tablets are the only handheld wireless (Bluetooth) devices that will run the latest version of Papywizard.

of course netbooks running winxp - win7 with onboard bluetooth can also run papywizard ...
;-)
Georg

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by klausesser » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:43 pm

mediavets wrote:Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

Seriously: some producers of HighEnd digital panoramacameras and heads use iPhones for controlling:
http://www.lizardq.com/features/
Here´s one controlling a RED´s lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9M3sSsmH4w
A Canon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbUsvdtd64o&feature=related
Nikon D40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrWBb9CvkiE&feature=related

The list gets longer . . ;): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGN3Vh4tVM&feature=related

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by fma38 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:51 am

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...
Frédéric

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by klausesser » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:43 am

fma38 wrote:The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...

I fully agree. But i understand and accept the reason for that: the software they release works without demanding programmer-skills from the user . . . :cool:;)
I defijnitely prefer a software or a device that works as i expect it to work. As a user i want an application or a device which i can do my job with. And my job is photography.
So as a photographer i need a device which i don´t have to do programmer´s work on - i don´t have any interest in programming or going deep in the details of how a device work.
My only interest is that it works in the way i need it to work.

That´s why i use Apple computers and other devices. When they release a device you can be sure it works as expected. Other devices may have some more functionality - but you have to pay a price.

We tested several tablet-computers for several weeks. The iPad is the only one which provides functionality you don´t have to think about - it just works.
That´s what you can sell to clients - you can´t expect a client to deal with "it should work, but . . "

We tested Flash-interactive panos on the competitors . . an awful experience. Maybe it will be do fine in the next generation of devices . . but they have to solve the power-problem first. Flash sucks them empty before you can end a somewhat more detailed presentation and the low speed makes them stutter.

A presentation of interactive panos on iPads and iPhones can last for hours and hours. No big problem to let away sound and movies inside the panos.

The only vital problem is to have no hovering - so you can´t name the hotspots. Let´s think about a workaround for that . .

More and more of our clients are buying iPads to use them in their locations for showing their cients things they want to present as multimedia. Some bought tablet-pc - and switched to iPads very quickly.

Basically i prefer a "closed shop" strategy with devices and software - it´s safer and guarantees flawless functionality . . because THAT is what you need as a producer of content.

Having clients call every day for help on problems with devices or software is definitely NOT what you want as a producer of contents . . . :cool:

That´s the Apple strategy. And it´s the right one. Besides an iPad is really cost-effective. Compare the competitor´s prices with the prices of an iPad or an iPhone - but look close . . ;)

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:47 am

fma38 wrote:
klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...

You could write an app!? I´m sure it sells!

best, Klaus
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by Asher Kelman » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:38 pm

I too would love an ipad solution. But it shouldn't be in the stratosphere!

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

Seriously: some producers of HighEnd digital panoramacameras and heads use iPhones for controlling:
http://www.lizardq.com/features/
Here´s one controlling a RED´s lens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9M3sSsmH4w
A Canon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbUsvdtd64o&feature=related
Nikon D40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrWBb9CvkiE&feature=related

The list gets longer . . ;): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGN3Vh4tVM&feature=related

Klaus,

I know it's German precision engineering but Euro 22,000 seems steep!

Image

Their picture with the Lizard

I have often photographed the same plaza! I was stunned to see that they also took a shot in this fascinating place! Mine, however, is far more challenging as my tripod is 18 inches from the center of the double set of doors on the left of the round concrete pillar by the green lights! The are long areas of aluminum with no detail and that's hard to stitch. (Fisheye pano rendering option did a much better job of putting these areas together! Otherwise the stitching is pretty damn good!)


I used a 5D II, 50 mm lens, the Really right Stuff Gimbal Mount, (post #3) and the Sunway LF platform and click stop rotator by hand. A pretty precise and practical solution.

Same place, same camera 5DII but mine is stitched in Autopano Giga! A with savings of Euro 21,000, LOL :)

Still, I'd be happy to control the Merlin/Orion/Backtracker with a Macbook Air! :)

Asher
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by fma38 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:29 am

Papywizard runs on MacOS; if the Macbook air runs MacOS, then you can use Papywizard...
Frédéric

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by Asher Kelman » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:32 am

fma38 wrote:Papywizard runs on MacOS; if the Macbook air runs MacOS, then you can use Papywizard...

All that beautiful Macbook air needs to run a Merlin/Orion/Skywatcher via Papywizard is Bluetooth and either a Canon digital rebel or else having a custom crown to accomodate the full size Canon 5DII. If one use a Digital Rebel, with the 1/1.6 size APS C sized sensor, how can one get full use of the 8mm Sigma Fisheye for spherical panorama? I gues one needs about 9 pictures instead of 5. If one uses a new crown, where does one obtain them and how does one still get the nodal point right for different lenses?

Thanks for you help!

Asher

BTW, Is there an expert/nerdmaster on mods in the LA area?
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by klausesser » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:44 am

Asher Kelman wrote:All that beautiful Macbook air needs to run a Merlin/Orion/Skywatcher via Papywizard is Bluetooth and either a Canon digital rebel or else having a custom crown to accomodate the full size Canon 5DII. If one use a Digital Rebel, with the 1/1.6 size APS C sized sensor, how can one get full use of the 8mm Sigma Fisheye for spherical panorama? I gues one needs about 9 pictures instead of 5. If one uses a new crown, where does one obtain them and how does one still get the nodal point right for different lenses?

Hey Asher!

On the Merlin i use the standard rail which came with it. I unmounted the bracket and use only the slotted part of it to fix the camera.
Because my 5D2 is 2mm higher than my previously used 20D - which fits pertfectly without any modification - i had the rail nagged away 2mm of it´s thickness. Which is no problem.
The 5D now is mounted perfectly in the NPP. Of course i can´t use the battery-handgrip.

Basically the use of a fisheye is not preferable with the Merlin - the Merlin´s base is huge and you get no usable footprint. So here i use my modified Manfrotto SPH and do 6 shots horizontal and one Zenith while i shoot a Nadir very rarely - usually i retouch it in Photoshop which takes 10 min.

Actually i found a way to shoot a perfect Nadir even using the Merlin: i have an old ArcaSwiss Monoball - this is a really giant device and built like a tank.
On this one i mount the Merlin and use the Arca to level it. After shooting the 6x1 shots i tilt the Merlin on the Arca 90° so that the camera on the Merlin looks straight downwards. Then i pull the tripod (Gitzo No5, very heavy) aside so that the lens faces exactly the place the optical center was before. Then i pull the center-colum of the tripod up to compensate the loss of height resulting from the 90° swing.
And voilà¡: i´m in the perfect condition to shoot a perfect Nadir. This all sound complicated - but it takes just (i stopped the time) around 30 seconds.

The 5D2 with a 15mm Canon fisheye is in my eyes the perfect workhorse for spherical panos - it´s quick, the RAW is very fine and you get around 120MPx for the sphere. The 15mm´s image quality is very fine @f:8/11/16 - few CA and it´s very sharp. Low sensitivity to stray-light which means a good glass and coating.

I use a 16mm Nikon fisheye on a D3x sometimes - there´s no visible difference. Also a very fine lens (camera anyway . . :cool:). But i can´t use the D3x on the Merlin in the same reduced configuration as the 5D2 because of the Nikon´s grip.

The Merlin carries my 300mm Nikon lens and Canon or Nikon camera effortlessly mounted on the standard rail. A problem rises when using lenses longer than 85mm: the head gets very slow. That´s why the angles between the shots get so narrow - in this case the controllers constantly run in "go-to" mode which is slow compared to the faster mode where it runs fast a while in "transport" mode and then slows down into the "go-to" mode to exactly meet the position.
I observed this behavior with all the heads i used: Rodeon, Seitz - but the Merlin definitely is the slowest one. Regarding it´s price that´s not surprising at all . . :cool:
Anyway: this is a real great device! And Frédéric and Josef thankfully built two very elaborated and well working control-devices resp. software for it.

best to you, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:. . . but Euro 22,000 seems steep!

You name it. They sell it for forensic use - police/csi, fire departments, military and so on - and to contruction companies: buildings, shipyards/warfs and so for documentary tasks which runs for years usually. The trick is: you don´t need ANY experiences in photography and panography. You can give it to your hairdresser and he/she can shoot perfect spheres in HDR. That´s because the head contains a Linux computer which controll everything. Place it anywhere - no need to level or something: it levels itself, measures light and so on and shoots. Then you put the FC (or tethered) into your computer at office and again you don´t need to know anything about panos: they´re stitched and rendered automatically and provide an interactive perfect result. And: you can shoot precise 3D spheres from which you can take precise measurings - that´s what it makes interesting for forensic use on crime-scenes or architectural resp. reconstruction use.

And: the device/camera is VERY fast. I tried it myself and i was definitely surprised how fast is works. But the price . . . . :rolleyes::cool:

best, Klaus
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by Gordon » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:16 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:I too would love an ipad solution. But it shouldn't be in the stratosphere!

klausesser wrote:
mediavets wrote:Papywizard doesn't run on any Apple iDevices.

What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

I think Android phones are the way to go, as as they have higher processor speed than iphones, there are more Android phones than iphones and they appear to be more open than iphones in that they use googles opensource android os.

Best
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by klausesser » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Gordon wrote:I think Android phones are the way to go, as as they have higher processor speed than iphones, there are more Android phones than iphones and they appear to be more open than iphones in that they use googles opensource android os.

I suggest to use a dedicated device for controlling a pano-head - a cell-phone seems nice for that . . . but what if you receive a call while shooting a 300 image-pano :P:cool: ?

Honestly: when you´tre dealing with pano-photography for some time you will realise that you need specialized devices which precisely are designed for this purpose.
That´s why i added a PromoteControl to the head´s controller (TC). Now there i have two devices - small ones - but the combination of both do exactly what i need in superb quality and are easy to use even under stress. I also could use my MacBook or a netbook - but they definitely have too much redundant keys for the job . . :P.

I´m using an iPhone now for 4 months. I tried to compare it to some top Android devices because i wanted to buy an Android for my son. The Android surely is a good idea . . but there´s not ONE phone which is as elegant, simple to use and fast as an iPhone 4 and has such a good display. My son (23 and student of biotechnology) is far more technical-oriented than me but he wasn´t convinced of one of the devices.
Guess they will reach a comparable point of developement which Apple has reached already in terms of handling - but Apple also does further developing . . . :cool:

Again: use a dedicated device to control your pano-head/camera. An all-in-one-wonder which does a perfect job for your specialised needs and which brews a perfect espresso also and dances foxtrott :cool: - doesn´t - and will not - exist.

Btw.: " there are more Android phones than iphones" yes - but there are more flies than gourmets also . . does it mean it´s preferable to eat ****? :lol::cool:

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by pu2wxp » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:58 pm

klausesser wrote:
fma38 wrote:The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...

I fully agree. But i understand and accept the reason for that: the software they release works without demanding programmer-skills from the user . . . :cool:;)
I defijnitely prefer a software or a device that works as i expect it to work. As a user i want an application or a device which i can do my job with. And my job is photography.
So as a photographer i need a device which i don´t have to do programmer´s work on - i don´t have any interest in programming or going deep in the details of how a device work.
My only interest is that it works in the way i need it to work.

That´s why i use Apple computers and other devices. When they release a device you can be sure it works as expected. Other devices may have some more functionality - but you have to pay a price.

We tested several tablet-computers for several weeks. The iPad is the only one which provides functionality you don´t have to think about - it just works.
That´s what you can sell to clients - you can´t expect a client to deal with "it should work, but . . "

We tested Flash-interactive panos on the competitors . . an awful experience. Maybe it will be do fine in the next generation of devices . . but they have to solve the power-problem first. Flash sucks them empty before you can end a somewhat more detailed presentation and the low speed makes them stutter.

A presentation of interactive panos on iPads and iPhones can last for hours and hours. No big problem to let away sound and movies inside the panos.

The only vital problem is to have no hovering - so you can´t name the hotspots. Let´s think about a workaround for that . .

More and more of our clients are buying iPads to use them in their locations for showing their cients things they want to present as multimedia. Some bought tablet-pc - and switched to iPads very quickly.

Basically i prefer a "closed shop" strategy with devices and software - it´s safer and guarantees flawless functionality . . because THAT is what you need as a producer of content.

Having clients call every day for help on problems with devices or software is definitely NOT what you want as a producer of contents . . . :cool:

That´s the Apple strategy. And it´s the right one. Besides an iPad is really cost-effective. Compare the competitor´s prices with the prices of an iPad or an iPhone - but look close . . ;)

best, Klaus

I agree with every word!

Best,
Luciano Correa
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Campos do Jordao SP Brasil

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by pu2wxp » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:59 pm

klausesser wrote:
fma38 wrote:
klausesser wrote:What a shame . . . :P:cool::cool:

The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...

You could write an app!? I´m sure it sells!

best, Klaus

I buy for sure!
Luciano Correa
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by pu2wxp » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:24 pm

klausesser wrote:
Gordon wrote:I think Android phones are the way to go, as as they have higher processor speed than iphones, there are more Android phones than iphones and they appear to be more open than iphones in that they use googles opensource android os.

I suggest to use a dedicated device for controlling a pano-head - a cell-phone seems nice for that . . . but what if you receive a call while shooting a 300 image-pano :P:cool: ?

Honestly: when you´tre dealing with pano-photography for some time you will realise that you need specialized devices which precisely are designed for this purpose.
That´s why i added a PromoteControl to the head´s controller (TC). Now there i have two devices - small ones - but the combination of both do exactly what i need in superb quality and are easy to use even under stress. I also could use my MacBook or a netbook - but they definitely have too much redundant keys for the job . . :P.

I´m using an iPhone now for 4 months. I tried to compare it to some top Android devices because i wanted to buy an Android for my son. The Android surely is a good idea . . but there´s not ONE phone which is as elegant, simple to use and fast as an iPhone 4 and has such a good display. My son (23 and student of biotechnology) is far more technical-oriented than me but he wasn´t convinced of one of the devices.
Guess they will reach a comparable point of developement which Apple has reached already in terms of handling - but Apple also does further developing . . . :cool:

Again: use a dedicated device to control your pano-head/camera. An all-in-one-wonder which does a perfect job for your specialised needs and which brews a perfect espresso also and dances foxtrott :cool: - doesn´t - and will not - exist.

Btw.: " there are more Android phones than iphones" yes - but there are more flies than gourmets also . . does it mean it´s preferable to eat ****? :lol::cool:

best, Klaus

Hi all,

I believe there is some prejudice with Apple Maniacs, people do not understand this preference, many are even harmful to talk about it.

But just understand who undresses prejudices and instead use a Mac every day, with time he inevitably became a fan of Apple as well.

A few days ago was released here in Brazil the Samsung tablet, the Galaxy, I was in a bar and had a guy in front of me with a Galaxy. Guess which site he was looking? The Apple Store in the iPad page! :-)

I'll give you an example of a fantastic thing that Mac did for me:

I had an iMac 24 and TimeCapsule with Time Machine backup.
I bought an iMac 27 and put on my desk, plugged it in, install the OS, and during installation it asked if I would use the Time Machine backup. I clicked yes and waited for him to pull up.

When he finished everything he had in the old iMac 24 was there!
It was my wallpaper, my facoritos, my emails, my programs, my system settings, browser history ... everything!!!!!
Ready to use, all working perfectly! This was fantastic!

If it was a windows I would have to reinstall all programs, reconfigure, upgrade OS, reinstall drives, libraries, backup emails, etc, etc, etc, etc ...

Never more in life I want to use another operating system! Simple as that!
Luciano Correa
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by klausesser » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:53 pm

pu2wxp wrote:A few days ago was released here in Brazil the Samsung tablet, the Galaxy, I was in a bar and had a guy in front of me with a Galaxy. Guess which site he was looking? The Apple Store in the iPad page! :-)

:cool:
One thing about Android: that´s a very fine platform. Even Windows PCs are very fine platforms - basically.
The problem is: thousands of hardware vendors and thousands of software/app vendors. That causes many irritations and unsureness (?).
My daughter bought an Android phone in last November. There were some OS-updates on Androids in between - but not for her Motorola Flipout . . . she´s rather pissed off!
On the other hand you get an actual OS update for two years old iPhones!

In my eyes the bigest advantage of Apple´s platform is: hardware and OS come from ONE hand. That´s why it just WORKS.

I saw Flash running an interactive pano on a Galaxy - you definitely wouldnt like it . . . . :rolleyes:

I hope that either a substitute for interactive Flash content will be coming or that Apple opens iPads to Flash in the next generation with maybe 4-core processors and more of RAM.

BUT: that cost much power! Yesterday we ran our iPad on a presentation - the power lasted SEVEN hours of continuous use. Show me the tab which does it running the extremely powerconsumpting Flash-player . . .guess it will be sucked off in two hours. That´s why Aple refused to use Flash on iPads/Phones - people would go nuts and blame Flashes powersucking to Apple.


best, Klaus
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by tived » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:20 am

klausesser wrote:The shame is Apple way of developping on iDevices -> impossible to release real free softwares...
I fully agree. But i understand and accept the reason for that: the software they release works without demanding programmer-skills from the user . . . :cool:;)

is that because they know that their users are not so clever,:rolleyes:..... but its so pretty and expensive :lol: it must be good :D

plenty of times been thinking of getting a mac, but i just find them so limited. and to build a mac to my pc specs i would have digg even deeper.

but there are some really nice features on the mac OS that i like, such as the finder in column mode and the color coding of files and folders.

actually the reason why i looked at this thread was because i was thinking of the Mac Airbook to be used as the controller for the Merlin, being so light, and still function as a computer (at least i think it can?)

Henrik

PS: i don't program - should i then b a mac user :D

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by tived » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:47 am

hi klaus,

I think you are very right in your assesment of using two devices to control the process here over a OneWonder device, as much as i would like it to b the case.

btw my nokia n900 died b4 i could actually use it.

interesting point about the phone ringing...what would happen? maybe Andrew can answer this?


klausesser wrote:Btw.: " there are more Android phones than iphones" yes - but there are more flies than gourmets also . . does it mean it´s preferable to eat ****? :lol::cool:

best, Klaus

That was just GOLD!!! LOL you just made my day ;-)

Henrik

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by tived » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:05 am

hi pu2wxp,

that is indeed a nice feature, a unix feature i belive, with an Apple GUI.

never the less, its excellent.

there are pro's and con's in both camp's which is why real Pro's have both ... tunnel vision and single minded is for amateaurs.

to others....

On the other side of the coin, I had a glimse of a ASUS tablet yesterday, which first looked like an iPAD, but was slightly wider I think it was using the 16:9 format, not sure, but it was running a full version of Windows 7 x64 with 8gb ram and 64GB SSD at about AUD$ 1450, with bluetooth WiFi mini HDMI USB and all the usual suscpect.

There is no doubt that the iPAD is the benchmark, and i have no idea how well the above ASUS is performing.

The question is, if one was looking for a OneWonder to control the Merlin, would a tablet be a contender?

I must say I am a bit disappointed that the Macbook Air doesn't have Bluetooth.

I gave my daughter a Samsung n310 notebook, which i think could also be a good choice with an Intel N550 processor, but I can't get it off her hands so thats a no go for me (its not always easy to be a dad! ;-) ) and haven't been able to find another.

at the moment I have nothing to take out and control my Merlin with, this laptop I am using here, would die shortly after an hour.

its time to make a decision so I can go out shooting

Henrik

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mediavets
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by mediavets » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:45 am

tived wrote:I must say I am a bit disappointed that the Macbook Air doesn't have Bluetooth.

Henrik

Apple seems to think it does: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by tived » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:53 am

then why is no one using it?

H

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by tived » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:55 am

Andrew,

I saw a Nokia n810 yesterday in a shop AUD$300!! ouch and its really big compared the my n900
but of course it will work with the PapyWizard!!! but $300!!!!

H

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by klausesser » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:43 am

tived wrote:is that because they know that their users are not so clever,:rolleyes:..... but its so pretty and expensive :lol: it must be good :D

Yes - we Mac users all are idiots and buy devices only when they look cool and not for their functionality . . .

tived wrote:plenty of times been thinking of getting a mac, but i just find them so limited. and to build a mac to my pc specs i would have digg even deeper.

"limited"? Did you know that most of multimedia content which you look at every day is created on Macs? That includes press, tv and audio as well as photography.
Do you think this could be if Macs would be "limited" :lol: ?

tived wrote:actually the reason why i looked at this thread was because i was thinking of the Mac Airbook to be used as the controller for the Merlin, being so light, and still function as a computer (at least i think it can?)

An AirBook 11" for controlling a Merlin surely would be very nice . . . . but even i think it´s a bit expensive just for that . . :cool:

best, Klaus

P.S.: we have some PCs here too . . . rarely used.
Last edited by klausesser on Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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