Merlin + EOS400D with EF-S 10-22 @ 10mm collision at Zenith?  

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Undertable
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Merlin + EOS400D with EF-S 10-22 @ 10mm collision at Zenith?

by Undertable » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:19 pm

Hi community,

in CAD it seems that there will be a collision at the last few degrees when trying to move the EOS400D with EF-S 10-22 (@10mm) to zenith position. Can anybody confirm this?

I think a zenith-shot is not a requirement but I would be interested to know that.
Thanks

Undertable

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by mediavets » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:45 pm

A +90 pitch zenith shot is not required for 360x180 coverage.

See suggested shooting patterns here:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic/photography/lens_database.html
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Undertable » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:53 pm

Thanks for the useful link!

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by klausesser » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:20 pm

Undertable wrote:Thanks for the useful link!

With my 5D2 and 15mm fisheye it doesn´t collide. With a 20mm Nikon AIs also. And also with a 20D and 35mm.
Even a 5D2 with an 85mm Nikon AI-s it works fine.
So i don´t think it will collide in reality - but zooms tend to become quite long in wideangle mode sometimes . . . :cool:
Better check it in "real life" . . ;)

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Undertable » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:17 am

klausesser wrote:With my 5D2 and 15mm fisheye it doesn´t collide

With 8mm fisheye peleng there will be no problem, but with 10-22

klausesser wrote:Better check it in "real life"

that`s right

Undertable
Last edited by Undertable on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Paul » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:42 am

Undertable,
for which software are your Merlin cadfiles? And may you share them?
Paul

close, but no cigar ... ... ...

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by Undertable » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:56 pm

klausesser wrote:
Undertable wrote:Thanks for the useful link!

With my 5D2 and 15mm fisheye it doesn´t collide. With a 20mm Nikon AIs also. And also with a 20D and 35mm.
Even a 5D2 with an 85mm Nikon AI-s it works fine.

and you are really able to move with all these combinations (in optical pivot point) to zenith-position?

klausesser wrote:So i don´t think it will collide in reality...Better check it in "real life"

I`ve done so and unfortunately there is a collision with EOS400D + EF-S 10-22 approximately at 63 pitch.

Regards
Oliver






Last edited by Undertable on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by mediavets » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:32 pm

Undertable wrote:
klausesser wrote:So i don´t think it will collide in reality...Better check it in "real life"

I`ve done so and unfortunately there is a collision with EOS400D + EF-S 10-22 approximately at 63 pitch.
Regards
Oliver

But it doesn't matter because as I mentioned before you can get 360x180 covereage without requiring a pitch greater than +60 degrees:
http://www.vrwave.com/panoramic/photography/lens_database.html

Recommended: N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by claudevh » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:59 pm

Hello "Undertable"

I have a 40D with the same 10-22 mm. (very nice optics !)
I have also "potential collision" !
Bu I have excluded those values into the Papywizard settings and ...
As said by "Mediavets", a Zenit isn't mandatory !!!

You have a wunderfull "modified crown" !!! Is that self-made ?
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by Undertable » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:17 pm

Hi there,

mediavets wrote:it doesn't matter...you can get 360x180 covereage without requiring a pitch greater than +60 degrees

Yes, I`m glad about this and I can get along with it.

mediavets wrote:Recommended: N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required.

Yes, I fear next thing is to solve my biggest problem in this project: get papywizard to do exactly that for me. You know it`s not my strong point to fiddle with new software but with help of this forum and You guys I hope it will succeed anytime soon.

This is how I think at the moment:
There is a kind of (standard-)config-file with information about pitch and angular steps somewhere on the Nokia N810.
I have to find it, transfere it on a PC and modify it there (with an editor or Excel?) according to
mediavets wrote:Recommended: N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch

The modified file has to copied back on the Nokia. Sound`s simple but I believe it`s not so easy ;-)

claudevh wrote:I have a 40D with the same 10-22 mm. (very nice optics !)

I love this lens, too and use(d) it with EOS350D, 400D & 50D.
claudevh wrote:I have also "potential collision" !

OK, I`m not alone ;-)
claudevh wrote:But I have excluded those values into the Papywizard settings

This means I have to modify this (standard-)config-file in that way that pitch is smaller than 63degrees (my crashpoint)?

claudevh wrote:You have a wunderfull "modified crown" !!! Is that self-made ?

Thank You, I feel honoured that you like it. Yes it`s selfmade, I replaced the original crown by this one.

Oh Claude, please look what I have done to you`r Bluetooth-module (image below).
I know it`s anything than repair-friendly but it`s inside the merlin now and it`s still working.



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by mediavets » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Undertable wrote:
mediavets wrote:Recommended: N, 4 images every 90° at -60° pitch, 8 images every 45° at 0° pitch, 4 images every 90° at +60° pitch, no zenith image required.

Yes, I fear next thing is to solve my biggest problem in this project: get papywizard to do exactly that for me.

Simple. You need to create custom preset.

Here's the documentation about custom presets:
http://www.papywizard.org/wiki/UserGuideSvn#Presetmode

Copy the example and modify it.

Then save it with a name that make sense to you with the filename extension xml - perhaps canon400D-10mm.xml or whatever.

Connect your N800 to your computer via USB, the SD storage cards on the N800 should appear as disk drives.

Copy your custom preset xml file to the one of the N800 'drives'.

In Papywizard use the Import Preset File... command to load your custom preset on a per-session basis, it will appear in the drop down list of Presets.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Undertable » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm

Thank you very much,
that`s the information I need.
I`m going to try it out tomorrow

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by mediavets » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:06 pm

Undertable wrote:Thank you very much,
that`s the information I need.
I`m going to try it out tomorrow

Try this:
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<papywizard>
    <preset name="400D 10mm">
        <tooltip>
            400D + 10mm
            4 picts @ +60°
            8 picts @ 0°
            4 picts @  -60°
         </tooltip>
        <shoot>
            <pict yaw="0" pitch="-60" />
            <pict yaw="90" pitch="-60" />
            <pict yaw="180" pitch="-60" />
            <pict yaw="270" pitch="-60" />
            <pict yaw="315" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="270" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="225" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="180" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="135" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="90" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="45" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="0" pitch="0" />
            <pict yaw="0" pitch="60" />
            <pict yaw="90" pitch="60" />
            <pict yaw="180" pitch="60" />
            <pict yaw="270" pitch="60" />
        </shoot>
    </preset>
</papywizard>

Copy into Notepad if you are on Windows and save using the UTF-8 encoding option.

Be cautious because +60 degrees pitch is close to your estimated +63 at which you get a collision.
Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by klausesser » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:02 am

Undertable wrote:I`ve done so and unfortunately there is a collision with EOS400D + EF-S 10-22 approximately at 63 pitch.

Guess that´s due to the cameraplate you use - i screw the camera straight to the rail (the slotted part) which is delivered with the head. Have it nagged 3mm for flattening.
Now it´s correct meeting the NPP with mounted camera. A 50mm and an 85mm work for Zenith shots.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Undertable » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:51 am

Hi mediavets,

thank you very much for you`r support. I did exactly what you wrote and my Merlin is moving right in that way.
In fact with you`r help it was`nt as difficult as I expected.

The 60degree pitch is no problem. There are a few millimetres space left between camera/plate and Merlin`s cover.
Perhaps the plug of the shutter-cable will cause some trouble there, I have to check this out...


Last edited by Undertable on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:25 pm

Undertable wrote:Hi mediavets,

thank you very much for you`r support. I did exactly what you wrote and my Merlin is moving right in that way.
In fact with you`r help it was`nt as difficult as I expected.

The 60degree pitch is no problem. There are a few millimetres space left between camera/plate and Merlin`s cover.
Perhaps the plug of the shutter-cable will cause some trouble there, I have to check this out...

A simple way is to remove the bubble - it will dry away in a rather short time anyway . . . :cool:
My Merlin´s bubble was dry after 3 or 4 months.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Undertable » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Hi Klaus
klausesser wrote:...remove the bubble

That`s truly an interesting idea. Perhaps I should modify then the cover, too. I`ll think about that an decide later.
At the moment I don`t need the zenith-shot.

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by mediavets » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:37 pm

klausesser wrote:A simple way is to remove the bubble - it will dry away in a rather short time anyway . . . :cool:

And if you - or even if you don't - be sure to mask off the hole, or the underside of the bubble level, with some opaque tape to avoid bright light from entering and upsetting the operation of the optical encoders.
My Merlin´s bubble was dry after 3 or 4 months.

Mine was defective on delivery.
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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.

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by Undertable » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:08 pm

meanwhile I played a little bit with the merlin and found out an interesting behaviour regarding Merlin`s motion sequence:
It seems that merlin moves with two differnt speeds take in turns between each shots.

When it moves with higher speed it seems that the next "shooting-point" will exceed a little bit (no revision back). Shutter realease is done relatively fast, too.
Next movement is a little bit more slowly. Near the next "shotting-point" speed gets a lot more slowly. First it seemed to me that Merlin isn`t moving for a while but if I`m near to the Merlin with my ear I can hear that it is moving but very slow. On PW`s GUI (rows and circles) it seems that a kind of fine-tuning happens to fit the "shotting-point" exactly.

Is this behaviour normal?
Last edited by Undertable on Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by klausesser » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:25 pm

Undertable wrote:meanwhile I played a little bit with the merlin and found out an interesting behaviour regarding Merlin`s motion sequence:
It seems that merlin moves with two differnt speeds take in turns between each shots.

When it moves with higher speed it seems that the next "shooting-point" will exceed a little bit (no revision back). Shutter realease is done relatively fast, too.
Next movement is a little bit more slowly. Near the next "shotting-point" speed gets a lot more slowly. First it seemed to me that Merlin isn`t moving for a while but if I`m near to the Merlin with my ear I can hear that it is moving but very slow. On PW`s GUI (rows and circles) it seems that a kind of fine-tuning happens to fit the "shotting-point" exactly.

Is this behaviour normal?

Depending on the angles Merlin runs fast and gets slow to hit the exact position.

best, Klaus
Simplicity is the keynote of all true elegance. Coco Chanel

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by Undertable » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:36 pm

klausesser wrote:Depending on the angles Merlin runs fast and gets slow to hit the exact position

I`m curious about this behaviour because in my case Merlin hasn`t to move zigzag but handles 3 rows in sequence and is changing speed in the same row after each shot, virtually fast-slow-fast-slow an so on.

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by 360pano » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:51 pm

Undertable wrote:I`m curious about this behaviour because in my case Merlin hasn`t to move zigzag but handles 3 rows in sequence and is changing speed in the same row after each shot, virtually fast-slow-fast-slow an so on.

Firmware bug : http://www.autopano.net/forum/t7773-warning-buggy-new-firmware-skywatcher-multifunction-head
Last edited by 360pano on Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Undertable » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:10 pm


Thanks for the hot tip. I updated my firmware from 02.05.81 to 02.07.81 and Merlin`s behaviour has changed. There is no longer position override and speed is always the same between the shoot-positions. Nevertheless it could move a little bit faster, for example as fast as the faster speed before.

First I got no connection because of the BT-module, which I had built in and soldered its cables on the HC-jack`s pins.
After I disconnected those cables the connection with the SynScan handheld established. Due to this I`ll plug the 3 internal BT-cables or I`ll use a switch.
After the update I accidentally found a speed rate setting on the SynScan. I`m not sure if Merlin`s moving speed depends on this setting? After trial run I checked this figure and it was at "*9". Is it OK?


Last edited by Undertable on Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by claudevh » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Speed 9 is the highest speed of the Merlin ...

Never connect BT and Hand controler at the same time, you get conflict between the 2 ! ("half duplex" communication !)
You can connect the BT via the "delivered" cable with the RJ12 connector and disconnect when you want to use the Hand controler ....
:cool: Claude :cool:
Merlin + Papywizard on Windows 7 & Nokia 770 § N810 & Acer (Netbook) + PanoramaApp Androïd + Deltawave PapyMerlin BT + Autopano
Spherical Pano (180 x 360) with Canon 40D + Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 Zoom & Pôle Pano with Canon 5D MK2 and shaved Tokina 10-17 3.5-4.5 AF DX Fisheye
Gigapixel photography with Nikon D200 + Sigma 70-200 F 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

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by Undertable » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:42 pm

claudevh wrote:Never connect BT and Hand controler at the same time, you get conflict between the 2 ! ("half duplex" communication !)

I was in luck, nothing was damaged and all is still working fine. In future I`ll prevent this by the use of a plug or switch.

edit: I used a switch




Last edited by Undertable on Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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