Saving AAP files as 16 bit embedded .PSD .PSB  

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Saving AAP files as 16 bit embedded .PSD .PSB

by Mr Moose » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:21 pm

I'm new to AAP but not to Photo Shop. I just made my first stitched pano the other day, saved it as .PSD After opening the file in PS, the first thing I noticed was all of my stitched images didn't looked stitched at all, I could see borders that were lighter or darker things that weren't matching up, I tried a few more time with the same results.
That's when I took a look at the layers folder in PS. Here I could see that each image was on its own layer. After switching all of the layers off, leaving the bottom layer on, I now could see my perfectly blended pano.
I'm trying to understand why I would want all of these miss matched layers, there has to be a reason, but I can't find anything explaining what I would use them for.
Can anyone give me a little in-site, or point me to a link explaining this?
Thanks for any help.

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by GURL » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:25 pm

Mr Moose wrote:Can anyone give me a little in-site, or point me to a link explaining this?

When something (a car, peoples, etc) moved during the source images were recorded this often results in duplicated peoples or half a car or other glitches on the bottom "Blended Layer". Using only some of the above layers and appropriate masks (or the eraser tool) you can cover up what is wrong.

In some occasions it's easier to move the Blended Layer on the top and to make holes in it to reveal one or more layers under it.


Georges

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by hankkarl » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:47 pm

I'd like to see the blended layer at the top, but its not really that big of a deal.

On the other hand, a layer with outlines of each image and a layer number in it would be nice so I could quickly find which layers to work on -- sometimes you erase part of the blended layer to find two layers under those pixels. If the layer on top is not the one you want, you have to hunt for the correct one.

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by foundation » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:18 am

@hankkarl
In photoshop if you right click it will tell you the layers that have pixels where you clicked which I have found useful when manually reblending/touching up in photoshop

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by hankkarl » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:33 pm

Hi Foundation,

Please let me know how to do this--I just tried in CS4 and couldn't figure it out.

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by Asher Kelman » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:17 pm

hankkarl wrote:Hi Foundation,

Did you get reply? Please let me know how to do this--I just tried in CS4 and couldn't figure it out.

Excellent question. i too would like to know which layer part of a pano came from! anyone else can provide the answer?

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by GURL » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:36 am

Times are changing...

When using 2.5 three categories of PSD layers are available:
1) the stitched panorama
3) non-adjusted sources images (one source image = one PSD layer)
2) that's new: one or more layers corresponding to the layers you defined by using the layers window tools...

If you know of LDR mode and how to use anchors when several layers are defined this intermediate new category of PSD layer should interest you because it enable more control on the final photoshoped result with less adjustments using Photoshop tools...


Last edited by GURL on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:07 am

GURL wrote:3) non-adjusted sources images (one image = one layer)

Hey Georges!

Could you explain what "non-adjusted" means exactly?

best, Klaus
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by GURL » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:14 am

Photoshop Layers palette is to be used when one wants to work with Autopano PSD!

- Eyes in the left column are used to make the layer transparent (=nothing) or visible (=100% or adjusted if you wish.)
- You can drag and drop a layer where you want it in the stack.
- You can duplicate a layer.
- You can mask some layer portions: click on the "circle in a rectangle" icon for that and paint the mask (most tools have a selectable "hardness", grandient tool often works great, etc...)
- Adjustment layers are probably the greatest Photoshop feature (they are created using the circular half black/half white icon)
- By using this palette you can avoid remembering any of the so-called "shortcuts"...

For photographers and especially for panographers this palette is by far the most useful feature of Photoshop. Its very easy to learn: just try, if you did something wrong just type Ctrl Z or use History.

The following is an example of the "by names" correspondence between Autopano layers and Photoshop layers (watch the names at the bottom of the second screen capture and the name in the Photoshop Layers palette.)

You can change the name of Autopano layers (and thus of PS layers) if you wish.




Last edited by GURL on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:25 am

GURL wrote:Work in progress !

??
I don´t understand the screenshot.

best, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by GURL » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:04 pm

klausesser wrote:
GURL wrote:Work in progress !

??
I don´t understand the screenshot.

best, Klaus

:) My post is not finished, wait a minute!

klausesser wrote:Could you explain what "non-adjusted" means exactly?

Hummm...

Kolor never explained that. Here are my guesses for source images in PSD:
- geometry of source images is "adjusted" so that it corresponds to the stitched pano.
- brighness, contrast, color are like they were in source images.

On the contrary, an interesting point about the new kind of layers (where a PSD layer is corresponding to an Autopano layer, that is) is that one can control not only its contents (which source images are included in a given layer) but its colors and brightness (by using LDR and anchors.) Imaginative users will certainly use them as a powerful tool but this is not exactly the kind of feature I would try to explain in a step by step tutorial...
Last edited by GURL on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:20 pm

GURL wrote::) My post is not finished, wait a minute!

Hi Georges!

Sorry - didn´t want to push! :cool:

I used PS-layers rendering several times - i had issues regarding not well positioned images in the single layers. The layer which contained the stitch was ok. But in the single layers there were offsets between images - that´s why i didn`t use it any more.

Basically it´s a great option of course . . . maybe it works great now - i´ll give it a try.

best to you and thanks for explaining, Klaus
Last edited by klausesser on Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by GURL » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:05 pm

klausesser wrote:i had issues regarding not well positioned images in the single layers. The layer which contained the stitch was ok. But in the single layers there were offsets between images - that´s why i didn`t use it any more.

An usual problem when using Autopano: we tend to abandon a feature when it don't work in a particular version and/or in a particular situation...

Next to the source images sides - particularly next to the corners - the correspondence is often far from perfect and the wider the lens the more visible is the difference. Point shaped corners from fisheyes images never match, for well-know reasons. The now named "Layer mode" tool - where the mouse wheel is used to view the different photos when the cursor is located in an overlap region - will show that very well. Besides that, it works fine in my opinion: when you need this kind of control you need it badly!

Using the new "APP layer to PS layer correspondence" one should be able to build a "partial but stitched" layer where a tourist (from a given photo) is not visible but where other ones are visible even when they come from several photos... (I tend to shot more photos than needed but didn't test that yet.)
Last edited by GURL on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by klausesser » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:31 pm

GURL wrote:An usual problem when using Autopano: we tend to abandon a feature when it don't work in a particular version and/or in a particular situation...

Yes - and that´not a surprise. Working (!) instead of playing around with an application means to get reliable and reproducable results.
If there ware a detailed and well organized manual "what to do when" one would be able to estimate whether a workflow strategy makes sense or not.
Toying around and revealing great features rather accidently or realizing accidently that an option does NOT do what i thought it to do takes too much time from me - so when it doesn´t work as i thought it would i try to learn HOW it works . . but without a precise manual that means asking here in the forum. And because i mainly work at night it´s a bit difficult. So i abandon an option when it´s functions don´t reveal to me immediately.

Therefore my strategy is to use options which i know how to use them and know what i can realize with. Try and error i can do when i have time enough for try and error (that´s how i learned to use the Autopano suite by the way . . .).

best, Klaus
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by Asher Kelman » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:05 pm

GURL wrote:
klausesser wrote:i had issues regarding not well positioned images in the single layers. The layer which contained the stitch was ok. But in the single layers there were offsets between images - that´s why i didn`t use it any more.

An usual problem when using Autopano: we tend to abandon a feature when it don't work in a particular version and/or in a particular situation...

A major issue is the need for clear language. Native English speakers helping in making the terms unambiguous can help avoid misunderstandings.

It's a matter of nuanced use of words that lead us to different paths. I have spent many hours trying to get "layers" to work with "pictures", when layers intuitively should refer to simply source images in a stack, one on top of the other! The word "Pictures refers to "used source images". Why not use that phrase, "used source images"?

"Stitched panos/partial panos layers" and "Used source images layers" would be better than the single word "Layers"!

Likely, we're only using a fraction of the capabilities of AP Giga because of unclear terminology!

Asher
Last edited by Asher Kelman on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Mr Moose » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:44 pm

Wow, this thread was one of my first posts back in 2009.
I must say that I use the layers in PS all the time to edit my pano's.
I shoot a lot of night scenes, usually multiple rows using my spherical pano head and 85mm lens, so I have a lot of images, and a lot of layers.
I like to shoot architecture on city streets at night. Lens flare is always a problem, but with layers, I have many different views to chose from, if I can find a layer that doesn't have lens flare in the same location because it was shot in a different frame, I just copy and paste it over the problem frame and the lens flare is fixed, same goes with head lights and tail lights of cars, night shot exposures range from 1 to 8 seconds, and I'm always bracketing my exposures.
That's how I use the layers feature.

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by klausesser » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:Likely, we're only using a fraction of the capabilities of AP Giga because of unclear terminology!

Agree!

best, Klaus
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by Asher Kelman » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:57 pm

Mr Moose wrote:Wow, this thread was one of my first posts back in 2009.
I must say that I use the layers in PS all the time to edit my pano's.
I shoot a lot of night scenes, usually multiple rows using my spherical pano head and 85mm lens, so I have a lot of images, and a lot of layers.
I like to shoot architecture on city streets at night. Lens flare is always a problem, but with layers, I have many different views to chose from, if I can find a layer that doesn't have lens flare in the same location because it was shot in a different frame, I just copy and paste it over the problem frame and the lens flare is fixed, same goes with head lights and tail lights of cars, night shot exposures range from 1 to 8 seconds, and I'm always bracketing my exposures.
That's how I use the layers feature.

So you render the pano first and then add the extra picture without the flair. but then how do you tell APGiga to ignore the flared image? Do you just rely on "Smartblend" to do it for you? In PTGui Pro 9.0, one simple paints that flare with red and it won't be used in the stitch.

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by GURL » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:03 am

"Asher Kelman wrote:In PTGui Pro 9.0, one simple paints that flare with red and it won't be used in the stitch.

This is available for TIFF in Autopano: you must use another application, add an alpha-channel to the the original shoot and then use the modified TIFF rather than the original.

The Reload pictures option (left click in the Group pane) should help for that but either it don't always work or I'm misusing it...
Georges

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by Mr Moose » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:53 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:
Mr Moose wrote:Wow, this thread was one of my first posts back in 2009.
I must say that I use the layers in PS all the time to edit my pano's.
I shoot a lot of night scenes, usually multiple rows using my spherical pano head and 85mm lens, so I have a lot of images, and a lot of layers.
I like to shoot architecture on city streets at night. Lens flare is always a problem, but with layers, I have many different views to chose from, if I can find a layer that doesn't have lens flare in the same location because it was shot in a different frame, I just copy and paste it over the problem frame and the lens flare is fixed, same goes with head lights and tail lights of cars, night shot exposures range from 1 to 8 seconds, and I'm always bracketing my exposures.
That's how I use the layers feature.

So you render the pano first and then add the extra picture without the flair. but then how do you tell APGiga to ignore the flared image? Do you just rely on "Smartblend" to do it for you? In PTGui Pro 9.0, one simple paints that flare with red and it won't be used in the stitch.

Asher

Asher,

All of the editing is done on the rendered image in Photoshop. In the case of lens flare, I look at the layers one at a time until I find one that doesn't have any lens flare, remember the rendered image was made up of pieces of all the layers, so there will be images that were shot in a different frames that didn't get blended into the final rendering.
I just make a selection of of the area that doesn't have any flare, copy and paste that into the rendered pano, move it into place with the move tool, no more lens flare.
I must say that this is pretty easy to with a night scene.

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by Asher Kelman » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:16 pm

Mr Moose wrote:Wow, this thread was one of my first posts back in 2009.

Mr moose, !!!! :)

In all this time since you opened the thread, have you been rendering to 16 BIT layers PSD/PSB files. If so, what sizes open in Photoshop with no problems?

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by Mr Moose » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:16 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:
Mr Moose wrote:Wow, this thread was one of my first posts back in 2009.

Mr moose, !!!! :)

In all this time since you opened the thread, have you been rendering to 16 BIT layers PSD/PSB files. If so, what sizes open in Photoshop with no problems?

Asher

Asher,

Most of my pano's are made up with 30 to 50 images, I now shoot almost everything as vertical columns with my 85mm lens. I go with a overlap of at least 30% to 50% depending on how far away my subject is, yes, this might be over kill, but if you've ever shorted your overlap, then you just wasted your time.
The most recent was 40 images (4 rows of 10) with layers, came in at 6.25 GB as a PSB file into CS5. My largest file to date is over 12 GB with layers.
My currant OS is Win 7 64 and 8 GB of ram. I haven't had a single problem with this setup.
With XP pro SP 3, 32 bit OS APP 2.09 and smartblend, I would crash APP every time on files that size.
I've never had a pano not open is photoshop.

Bill.

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by Asher Kelman » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:36 pm

Asher Kelman wrote:have you been rendering to 16 BIT layers PSD/PSB files. If so, what sizes open in Photoshop with no problems?

Asher

Mr Moose wrote:Asher,

6.25 GB as a PSB file into CS5. My largest file to date is over 12 GB with layers.

But are these 8BIT or 16 BIT?

Asher
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by Mr Moose » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:56 pm

I always use 16 bit.



Asher Kelman wrote:
Asher Kelman wrote:have you been rendering to 16 BIT layers PSD/PSB files. If so, what sizes open in Photoshop with no problems?

Asher

Mr Moose wrote:Asher,

6.25 GB as a PSB file into CS5. My largest file to date is over 12 GB with layers.

But are these 8BIT or 16 BIT?

Asher

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by Asher Kelman » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:28 am

Mr Moose wrote:I always use 16 bit.



Asher Kelman wrote:
Asher Kelman wrote:have you been rendering to 16 BIT layers PSD/PSB files. If so, what sizes open in Photoshop with no problems?

Asher

Mr Moose wrote:Asher,

6.25 GB as a PSB file into CS5. My largest file to date is over 12 GB with layers.

But are these 8BIT or 16 BIT?

Asher


Mr. moose,

How big are these 16 BIT files that open so readily in Photoshop. I can't do it except once with a file 3 GB. What versions of Photoshop do these 12GB layered 16 BIT files open in?

Asher
Last edited by Asher Kelman on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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