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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:25 pm 
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I have a 988 image pano that has been in the positioning phase for 16 hours. The Positioning progress bar has not moved beyond about the 1/5 point in 12 hours. Yet the task manager shows that AutoPano is using 50% of CPU time and the memory usage changes a bit from time to time. I haven't tried such a big pano before, so I am not sure what should I expect. Will it complete or is it hopelessly lost? And if it is hopelessly lost, are there any suggestions for how to get these images stitched? FWIW, I am running AP-64 on XP-64 with 4G RAM.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:37 pm 
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That's a huge pano, I would like to see when its complete.
Such huge pano will require over 200Gb of scratch disk space depending upon the size of each file, do you have that?
If yes then APP would complete it sooner or later, no need to cancel.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:45 pm 
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panoperson wrote:
I have a 988 image pano

What camera body/lens and pano head did you use?

Did you use bracketing?
...........

If it does complete the sticthing process I can't imagine how long it might take to render the stitched image even if that is possible on your computer.

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Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:52 pm 
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So you are saying that AutoPano never gets lost, even with very large panos?

BTW, I don't see a setting for scratch disk but there is one for Temporary Folder - is that what you are referring to? Is so, that is not the problem because the drive that folder is in has 428 G free.

Maybe I should start it over and turn off Strong Algorithm, which I now notice says it takes a long time with large panos. What IS it anyway? I also have Adjust lens distortion turned on and since I don't think that is an issue with the lens I am using (400 mm with a 1.4 teleconverter). Maybe I should turn that off too. Any other ideas?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:21 pm 
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I did not use bracketing. I was using a Canon 20D on an AutoMate head from The Gadget Works.

So, if rendering turns out to be impossible on my computer, what computer configuration would you recommend?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:29 pm 
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I decided to start over with Strong algorithm turned off. I hope that I wasn't too rash and wasted 16 hours of processing of the pano.

It turned out to be a hard application to kill. Trying to kill the application in the Task Manager did nothing and it took several attempts to kill the process tree.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:38 pm 
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panoperson wrote:
I did not use bracketing. I was using a Canon 20D on an AutoMate head from The Gadget Works?

998 images, with none bracketed, using a pano head that only gives +/- 15 degrees of pitch variation.

You must have been using a very long focal length lens?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:33 pm 
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panoperson wrote:
...Trying to kill the application in the Task Manager did nothing and it took several attempts to kill the process tree.

As you said "killing in the Task Manager" did nothing, what other attemps did you perform ? Not explained. :mad:
As you like to be a killer with no explanation, I hope not to meet you one day :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:12 pm 
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marco-pano wrote:
panoperson wrote:
...Trying to kill the application in the Task Manager did nothing and it took several attempts to kill the process tree.

As you said "killing in the Task Manager" did nothing, what other attemps did you perform ? Not explained. :mad:
As you like to be a killer with no explanation, I hope not to meet you one day :lol:

Sorry, I thought I was clear. There are two ways to end an application in the task manager, either by killing the Application or by killing the Process Tree. I was not able to kill the Application, but I was eventually able to kill the Process Tree.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:30 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
panoperson wrote:
I did not use bracketing. I was using a Canon 20D on an AutoMate head from The Gadget Works?

998 images, with none bracketed, using a pano head that only gives +/- 15 degrees of pitch variation.

You must have been using a very long focal length lens?

As I said, I was using a 400 mm with a 1.4 teleconverter, or a total of 560 mm. And with the 1.6X crop factor of the 20D, that comes to an equivalent of 896 mm on a full frame camera.

I always mount a Manfrotto 234RC Swivel Tilt head between the AutoMate and the camera. This way, I can do about 170 degrees of pitch. This involves doing the pano in sets, where each set consists of using the automatic motorized feature of the AutoMate for 30 degrees and then adjusting the 234RC for the next 30 degrees. It only takes a few seconds between sets, so it is a pretty good workaround for that particular limitation. But in this particular pano, the scene height was less than 30 degrees, so it was all done in one set. The 234RC has a quick release camera mount, so that is anther reason I just always keep it on the AutoMate, to easily pop the camera on and off.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Well, I re-ran with the changed settings and I started the detect phase and went off to have breakfast and do the Sunday NY Times crossword puzzle (ho, ho, ho). When I came back an hour later, it had already completed the detection. So I am guessing that Strong Algorithm was the main problem.

So when is it a good idea to use that? I still don't understand what it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:43 pm 
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I don't think you had mentioned the lens setup before but....

Anyway I understand better now why you have so many images in your pano. It must have taken a long long time to shoot - I ran a simulated shoot of 990 images using the Papywizard control software for the Merlin robotic head and it took 1 hour and 50 minutes to complete, in real life it would take longer.

I don't think I can help you with a proposed spec for a computer to stitch so many images in a reasonable elapsed time, it is quite beyond my experience. But I dare say the Kolor guys can because they have done this sort of thing before.

Perhaps if you try stitching and rendering a small subset of your images you will better be able to estimate how long it may take to stitch and render the whole set on your current hardware setup - if indeed it is possible.

OTOH I can suggest that you take a look at the Merlin/Orion+Paywizard robotic pano head because that is much more capable than the Automate rig you are currently using and will make shooting much easier if you plan to do a lot of these hi-es (large matrix) panos with very long focal length lenses.

Good luck.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:00 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
I don't think you had mentioned the lens setup before but....

Yeah, I did mention it in post #4 of this thread.
Quote:
Anyway I understand better now why you have so many images in your pano. It must have taken a long long time to shoot.

Total time was one hour and 24 minutes.

Quote:
I don't think I can help you with a proposed spec for a computer to stitch so many images in a reasonable elapsed time, it is quite beyond my experience. But I dare say the Kolor guys can because they have done this sort of thing before.

Perhaps if you try stitching and rendering a small subset of your images you will better be able to estimate how long it may take to stitch and render the whole set on your current hardware setup - if indeed it is possible.

OTOH I can suggest that you take a look at the Merlin/Orion+Paywizard robotic pano head because that is much more capable than the Automate rig you are currently using and will make shooting much easier if you plan to do a lot of these hi-es (large matrix) panos with very long focal length lenses.

Good luck.

I am very happy with the AutoMate. The software is really impressive and in addition to making panos, it allows me to make time lapse movies and time lapse panos and HDR panos, to name a few things. And it only weighs 2 pound and fits in my camera bag - great for hiking.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:09 pm 
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Just an idea - maybe using the Gigapan import filter would speed up the CP detection?

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:40 pm 
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panoperson wrote:
There are two ways to end an application in the task manager, either by killing the Application or by killing the Process Tree.

Sorry, I'm so, so much, stupid : there is only one way to end application = kill the application. If you are not patient enough, you can kill one process that is related to this application. What about some applications that started 2 process ?

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Canon EOS 40D, EF-S 10-22, EF 24-105 LIS, EF 70-200 LIS - Canon G9 (wide-converter)
DxO v7.5, Autopano Pro 2.6, PS CS5 and time


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:44 pm 
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mediavets wrote:
Just an idea - maybe using the Gigapan import filter would speed up the CP detection?

I will have to research that. I don't know what it is at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:03 pm 
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panoperson wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Just an idea - maybe using the Gigapan import filter would speed up the CP detection?

I will have to research that. I don't know what it is at the moment.

File/Import and choose Gigapan and go from there. If you shoot a regular array of images it may work.



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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:19 am 
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mediavets wrote:
panoperson wrote:
mediavets wrote:
Just an idea - maybe using the Gigapan import filter would speed up the CP detection?

I will have to research that. I don't know what it is at the moment.

File/Import and choose Gigapan and go from there. If you shoot a regular array of images it may work.

Thanks but it looks like this filter depends on the specific Gigapan order of shooting based on file name, right? I guess I could I could write a script to rename all the files.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:10 am 
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panoperson wrote:
I did not use bracketing. I was using a Canon 20D on an AutoMate head from The Gadget Works.

So, if rendering turns out to be impossible on my computer, what computer configuration would you recommend?

Hi,

I have found some information comparing system specs and performance when stitching with APG and the Gigapan stitcher that may shed some light on desirable specs for stitching larger image sets - written by a member of this forum (Odyssey) who uses both the Gigapan robotic head and the Merlin/Orion+Papywizard robotic head.

http://www.gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=10516&window_height=664&window_width=1126

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:16 am 
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Very interesting. It would be even more interesting if he had tried a massive stitch such as I am playing with. I have a dual core system with 4G but no RAID, so I guess that RAID is my next step, followed by upgrading to a quad core processor.

Thank you for sending this!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:07 am 
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mediavets wrote:
I don't think you had mentioned the lens setup before but....


OTOH I can suggest that you take a look at the Merlin/Orion+Paywizard robotic pano head because that is much more capable than the Automate rig you are currently using and will make shooting much easier if you plan to do a lot of these hi-es (large matrix) panos with very long focal length lenses.

I am curious how much does the Merlin/Oriion+paywizard head weighs and how big is it? It looks heavy and bulky and it appears that it can't be removed from the tripod, so how do you carry it on a backpacking trek? I mean I can actually carry my AutoMate in my coat pocket (I don't, but it would fit) and it attaches to any tripod so I can use it with my light weight carbon fiber Manfrotto. And since it seems to work flawlessly, even with a 400+ mm lens, I am not sure why M/O+PW would be a better choice.

I am also curious how long the batteries last. Yesterday I took 1044 shots in 12 rows and it didn't show any sign of slowing down. I will try a 2000 shot pano as soon as the weather clears and let you know how it does, but do you have a feeling for how that compares with the M/O+PW?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:47 am 
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Merlin/Orion head weighs about 4lb without batteries.

You can remove it from the tripod supplied with it and mount it on any other standard tripod that can handle the load.

Yes it is bigger - it is a two axis head that allows mounting of the camera in portrait orientation. And with shorter lenses on my Nikon D40 I have a full 360 degree vertical rotation with the camera/lens in portrait orientation set correctly at the NPP .

I can't comment on battery life when using 8xAA internally mounted batteries - I use it only in situations where I can use an external battery pack or mains power.

If you want a robotic head to take on hiking trips and are only using long focal length lenses - shooting scenes where there is no issue with parallax - and +/- 15 degrees pitch variation (without modification) is sufficient then Automate+Manfrotto 234RC is probably the best choice for you.

For my purposes Merlin/Orion+Papywizard is a better choice.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:00 am 
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panoperson wrote:
Very interesting. It would be even more interesting if he had tried a massive stitch such as I am playing with. I have a dual core system with 4G but no RAID, so I guess that RAID is my next step, followed by upgrading to a quad core processor.

Thank you for sending this!

I believe he has shot such panos - using a Nikon D200 with a 500mm lens. You may like to contact him, look for posts from Odyssey on this forum.

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Andrew Stephens
Many different Nodal Ninja and Agnos pano heads. Merlin/Panogear mount with Papywizard on Nokia Internet tablets.
Nikon D5100 and D40, Sigma 8mm f3.5 FE, Nikon 10.5mm FE, 35mm, 50mm, 18-55mm, 70-210mm. Promote control.


Last edited by mediavets on Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:12 am 
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Hi Panoperson

You can also use Process Explorer from SysIntenals for killing applications and processes. It can be configured to start on the Control-Alt-Delete shortcut instead of Task Manager. It is a much more fully featured process tool. The guys from SysInternals got bought out a couple of years back and are now part of Microsoft. So is all their freeware. You might find it worth a look. I am not sure on Vista compatibility as I went OSX after XP.

Cheers

Tim

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Last edited by Tim.Lewis on Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:35 am 
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mediavets wrote:
Merlin/Orion head weighs about 4lb without batteries.

You can remove it from the tripod supplied with it and mount it on any other standard tripod that can handle the load.

Oh, I thought it had a non-standard thread size on the bottom.

Quote:
Yes it is bigger - it is a two axis head that allows mounting of the camera in portrait orientation. And with shorter lenses on my Nikon D40 I have a full 360 degree vertical rotation with the camera/lens in portrait orientation set correctly at the NPP .

AutoMate can also handle portrait mode mounting if you have an L-bracket. And it also supports 360 degree continuous rotation. But yeah, vertical rotation about the NPP is a differentiator if you need that ability.

Quote:
I can't comment on battery life when using 8xAA internally mounted batteries - I use it only in situations where I can use an external battery pack or mains power.

If you want a robotic head to take on hiking trips and are only using long focal length lenses - shooting scenes where there is no issue with parallax - and +/- 15 degrees pitch variation (without modification) is sufficient then Automate+Manfrotto 234RC is probably the best choice for you.

For my purposes Merlin/Orion+Papywizard is a better choice.

Well, AutoMate works great with short lenses too, but I guess you are referring to situations where parallax is an issue. In any case you are right that whatever works best for you is the right one for you! Thanks for the information!


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